Regular maintainence - yes or no?

[Bren]

Regarding my earlier thread concerning my other half's galant, it has required only a crank pulley, £160 + vat + 1 hours labour.

 

Financially I can just about accept this on an S reg car, albeit one that is in excellent condition, however it is likely that after eight years I will be looking at moving it on.

 

The car has been fastidiously maintained and wanted for nothing, however I was prepared for the worst, sending it over the weighbridge.

 

When I add up what maintaining my cars costs, even doing 95% of it myself, it is a tidy sum. I do believe in the old saying "a stitch in time saves nine", however the thought of scrapping a car that has been looked after was a bit disappointing.

 

I have a couple of friends who generally ring me when they are having problems with their motors, they are the total opposite to me - fix it when it goes wrong or is about to. They never seem to have major problems regarding breakdowns, and manage to save themselves a tidy sum by not having any regular maintainence.

 

In these financially challenged times what does everybody else think? Is regular maintainence a waste of money?

[eddyramrod]

I don't think it is, on the whole, but the perilous nature of many people's finances mean it can get shoved to the bottom of the pile until something breaks, or looks like it might. Which is my position atm...

[gtd2000]

I think it depends on the component and the ramifications of failure.

 

I'm inclined towards regular maintenance but certain items like ball joints, suspension components would be replaced only when a problem occurred.

[barefoot]

I'm big on regular maintenance, particularly with the Porsche as I suspect that lack thereof could be catastrophic.

 

In the distant past, I skimped on it & paid the price

[Rocket88]

Regular oil and filter changes, do cambelts when specified. Everything else "as and when", and use the bloody thing regularly, as nothing seems to kill them faster than not being driven.

[Lord Sterling]

Is regular maintainence a waste of money?

 

No. I've always believed in the saying; 'if you look after it and it'll look after you'. Those that dont maintain thier cars will find that lack of maintanance will often lead to bigger things going wrong with the car. Think cambelts, maintaining oil levels, coolant top-ups, balljoints that sort of thing. Fail to change/maintain these and you will be facing a huge bill. The more you leave it, the larger the end bill will get.

 

Your friends are lucky to have someone like you, I'm guessing you dont charge them an hourly rate repairing thier cars. Think about how much it would cost them at any given garage to carry out the sort of work you do on an hourly rate + parts etc...

[ashmicro]

Definitely. If you can do the work yourself and have a decent motor factors on hand, you'll save shed loads (but I expect everyone on here knows that)

 

For those who do biggish mileages you should recoup a good part of any maintenace expenditure in fuel savings. And then there's the thing a lot of olks seem to forget - not having to replace your car cos it's knackered will save a huge sum.

 

One of my mates has had a 1987 Mercedes 190e since 1988, and in his ownership the only people to work on it have been him and me. It still looks GR16, goes very well, returns reasonable MPG and is reliable.

 

How you drive will also play a big part in what your car will need. Another of my friends drives everywhere like Kris Meeke, and wonders why her car eats brakes and tyres, not to mention suspension components.

 

One of our neighbours got 19 years out of a 1984 Ford Orion 1.3GL. Aside from regular maintenance and a wee bit of welding, all it ever needed was a new carb. Another neighbour had a Lada Riva for ages and I serviced for him. The car cost peanuts, parts were dirt cheap and it was easy to work on. Apart from the parts, all it cost him for me to service it was a bottle of scotch!

 

You can, of course, spend good money after bad, but if you follow the manufacturer's service schedule big problems should be minimal, as evidenced by the fact that I have had 10 K Series cars, and not one HGF.

[Pete-M]

Definitely worth doing.

 

Once I've got a car running happily enough I'll check the levels and tyre pressures every couple of weeks and give everything a good coat of looking at every six months or so. That seems to keep them happy enough. Not maintaining a car can be more than a tad dangerous. I've bought stuff in the past off people who have sung the praises of their motor for being "perfectly reliable, nothing has ever gone wrong" and when I've had the car on ramps it's in a total mess, engine full of sludge and knackered wheelbearings a plenty. Not safe, not worth the risk.

 

Another example is a female friend of mine. She bought a 53 plate Polo TDi, on finance, for £7k about three years ago. Utterly stitched into the car with no easy escape route. It was probably worth around £4k when she bought it, but she didn't have £4k, she had £200 a month or whatever. This left the square root of jack to maintain it, so she just put fuel in it and drove the thing. It was fine for six months or so and then things started to go pear shaped. She's one of those girls who thinks that pavements are parking areas to be clattered into at the highest speeds possible, speed bumps are launch ramps and those crunchy noises from the floor are "what all cars do". First mot in her ownership involved pretty much all the suspension replacing along with all the Tyres as did the second and third. It started to run badly after two years and wasn't at all well by the third mot - which it just scraped through. She'd done 25000 miles in it and never checked anything at all. Only work done was at mot time. No oil changes or servicing at all as "that's what the mot is".

 

She sold it for £1200 when "the engine started jumping up and down and it was poorly" ( injector had a bad connection) and bought a Pug 206 petrol (on finance) to replace it. The Pug has fared slightly better.

[dollywobbler]

If you keep a car for a short period of time, it makes no sense to go to town on it. I spend a fortune making cars great for the next buyer. Rare exceptions are the CX, in which I did loads of mileage and no servicing whatsoever (bar a set of plugs and a new intake hose because it ran like shite) and my Alfa 164 V6 - which I tried to fix when the brakes went wrong but otherwise did nothing.

 

The 2CV got a bit neglected last year and only had one service (and a few grease sessions). That said, she only did about 3000 miles, so it wasn't horrific. The Maverick will get getting attention, but I'm trying to keep the costs down. I'll go second-hand if I can for parts and I'll do as much work myself as I can.

 

Some people do seem frustratingly lucky. They can run cars into the ground and they keep providing loyal service. I just can't neglect a car though. It's like kicking a puppy.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

It depends.

 

A mate has just bought a £300 318iS Coupe with a projected ownership span of 5-6 months and maybe 4000 miles. I checked it out - tyres all okay, bit of play in a front b'joint, discs very ropey, pads alright. I've advised him to spend nothing on it - not even change the oil or coolant because what's in there will do. Yes, you could do the b'joint, put four discs and a set of pads in and then that £300 car is suddenly £500 - and then it shits itself. He knows he will be the last owner and it drives okay - so bollocks to it.

 

My own example however gets what it needs on an 'as and when' basis. I do the oil and filter every 6000, I fitted new discs and pads all round 6 months ago and four new Uniroyals a month ago. I know I'll never sell it as a running MOT'd car and it owes me absolutely fuck all (I was given it 4 years ago) so I don't mind putting £250 a year into it to keep it reliable and roadworthy. It passed the MOT in December with no advisories and I look over it with it up on the MOT ramp.

[Taff]

bit of a mixed one this, isn't it?

when i bought my daily hack, i paid £340ish for it, a '94 polo with 5 months rent and 11 months MoT. no service history, just the v5c and current ticket.

130,000 ish on the clock, and some vague rumours of a new clutch fitted "last year, mate", you get the picture.

 

on the drive home I made a promise to it and myself. I would give it a new cambelt, fresh oil and filters every 5000 miles and i'll check everything under the bonnet on saturday's. in return, the polo isn't to breakdown and drop me in the shit, and if it feels like a failure, it's to give me a bit of warning.

 

we shook on it, and two years later it's still going strong. hasn't needed much for it's MoTs (when i bought it, i genuinely didn't expect anothr ticket, never mind two) and nothing so far that I haven't been able to fix myself. it's failed to start twice, both time it wasn't the end of the world and it started the following day with no repairs at all (polo owners might recognise this as imoboliser failure)

 

I'm a time-served diesel fitter, as a result I do place great score in fresh oil and oil filters, as this is were the problems will begin in the polo. home-servicing is for winners, as I know i can save myself a small fortune.

[dieselnutjob]

I used to have a lodger how would buy a car with a long MOT for £200 (was a few years ago) and drive it until it broke or failed MOT. Step n Repeat.

Sometimes it would only be a few months but mostly he would get a couple of years.

If you are that kind of person then it might not be worth doing maintenance.

 

I on the other hand spend a few thousand on a car and run them for ten years or more. I probably spend a similar amount of money in servicing and wot not but I get to drive something this isn't a total and utter shed which is all that he has ever had and I don't have to keep hunting for cars every couple of years or less.

[The Moog]

When a car costs £500 and you think that you are only keeping it for 6 - 8 months then it can be hard to justify it. Well that is what my missus thinks, sadly I do the same as Mr Wobbler. I always end up doing bits that need doing then something happens. Last car spent £500 then gets written off.

 

Trying to justify £100 or so on servicing stuff to my gf is really hard. She cant see the point and whinges about it and I have to end up pointing out it is my hobby. I never say a word when she has spent £1800 on a diving holiday!

[Pete-M]

The thing is, for most of us servicing a car is pretty easy and not that expensive as long as it is just routine bits.

 

My Jag costs me under £100 to do an oil, plugs and filters service on. Which is bugger all really. So why not do it once ever 6k miles or so? It works out a lot cheaper than not servicing it would and only takes an hour or so, although I'll normally spend a few hours doing general fettling. Greasing hinges, adjustments and fixing those little niggly things that wind me up when they're not quite right. Give it a wash, wax and Hoover and it's back to being lovely for another few months.

 

I hate cars which don't do what they're meant to, and not servicing them is the best way to stop the bloody things working

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

It's all to do with cost-benefit. I guess the only thing that needs regular work is the oil and filter. You can check everything else (maybe apart from brake fluid?) and renew as required. I'm aware that some shite is just too cheap and should be viewed as disposable but, like DW, I can never bring myself to treat cars like that.

[HMC]

The percieved value of the car in question has, in theory an impact when it comes to me. I try never to spend more on a car than its likely resale value. I manage to fail spectacularly on this count on most occasions, as when I buy a cheapie its because I want to and not because I have to. I suppose in my case I find the oil changes and tinkering of maintencnce quite therapeutic, and in the end I suppose this is not necessarily rational or cost effective, but certainly good for whoever buys a car off me!!

[Parky]

An absolute Yes from me.

 

My wife's BMW Mini has the notoriously unreliable "Midlands" gearbox, and many failures are attributable to the use of "sealed for life" lubricant. So would you rather get two litres of decent gear oil for £20, or spend a grand on a replacement box? And whats more, the occasional trawl through your engine bay will find things early - I'd rather find out about a water leak with the expansion bottle half full rather than find out about it in a cloud of steam on the M25.

 

When I have owned new cars I have always regularly checked them, especially after main dealer servicing as quite frankly some dealers dont have a bloody clue. Good example was the Kia Picanto with 5 litres of oil on the bill when the car takes 2.8 litres. When querying this, I was told that 5 litres would be fine, and not to worry. Even the chief mechanic tried to pursuade me that 2.2 litres too much oil would be fine. And no, he wasnt going to drain some out.....I had to rant at the MD to get it done!

[catsinthewelder]

I acquired my Megane at 71800 miles with a major service due at 72 which I did over a couple of weekends, I kept to the service schedule in the Haynes to the letter. Since that bit the dust (haynes did not mention replacing waterpump at the same time as the cambelt) I've been running older cars with less in the way of written down service history. I now tend to give them an annual service of oil+filter, air filter and belts if required just after the MOT. Before the test they will have a general check; lights, brakes, obviously dodgy bodywork etc.

 

I do this for 2 reasons;

1. a major fail could easily put them off the road for 6 months while I weld it back together or source some part made of unobtainium etc. I would rather have the oil new and fresh while I'm using it not while its sat on the drive in bits.

 

2. Half of the servicing is checking various components, I do inspect them while in the vicinity, mending other stuff but my MOT guy is a man whose opinion I trust on what needs replacing.

 

Other stuff like handbrake cables, exhausts etc tends to give at least some warning to fix it before it causes trouble.

[r.welfare]

Good thread. I'm firmly on the side of regular maintenance. Both the cars in my household have done serious mileage, so it's cheap insurance really. My wife and I do between 15-20k miles per year, and have done for the last decade at least.

 

Take the Accord. It's done 171,000 now, and I'd put the resale at £500 (with a fresh ticket, 12 months' rent and a full tank of gas). So it's got to the point that every bit of semi-major work becomes a consideration of cost/benefit. But it keeps going well, so I didn't (for example) begrudge throwing £500 at it the year before last to have the two cambelts, all tensioners and water pump replaced, and the valve clearances set. Hell, it's only cost 4p/mile in maintenance for the last 9 years.

 

Oil and filter every 5k with a good check over underneath at the same time pays dividends. I tend to stick to genuine Honda or OE-spec parts, but eBay and/or buying in bulk keeps the costs down - I get 20 litres of fully-synth Chevron 5W40 from Costco for £40, buy half-a-dozen Honda filters from eBay for £30 and so on. I do all the basic stuff (service items, brake discs/pads, replacement sensors etc) myself, leaving the complex things (like a cambelt change - although I think next time I'll have a try myself) to the experts.

 

The Toyota's cost a bit more in it's 2 years with us, but a fair bit of that was down to righting the wrongs of the previous owner - lease car for the first 80k miles but no history from then until we bought it at 125k. Still, it was cheap and overall has been worth the punt (despite the fact it now appears to be shedding lacquer like a 90's Peugeot), but on reflection I tend to prefer to buy - even at £500 snotter level - something with as close to a full history as possible if I'm going to be keeping it for a while.

[Lankytim]

I'm a big fan of regular servicing, plus thorough "in service" inspection to catch any leaks, rust e.t.c before they get out of hand. However in my experience with old cars once you start disturbing things that don't need it it just creates more problems, expense and work.

[R9UKE]

It really depends on the car for me. If I can't imagine life without them and intend to have them around for as long as I am, then they'll (Mégane and Avantime) get annual servicing and everything done to manufacturer's guidelines. It really does make the world of difference with "soft" cars like this, a lack of maintenance really shows.

 

However, on older, cheaper shite like my Clio and S70 - it'll only get things rectified that actually stop it from going. The S70 is shining it's SERVICE light and I've got no intention of fulfilling that request! I'm just waiting for the timing belt to snap on the Clio - in which case I'll lose £60 after scrapping it. Not worth the cost or effort of doing the job before it hits.

 

I agree with the general lack of maintenance being more common that ever. People who class cars as appliances have almost every thing sitting at a higher priority than paying out £150+ for a job that they'll see no physical result from. Seeing more cars than ever at the auction and the likes with the spanner flashing!

[Quintus]

It's a yes from me.

 

If I've paid a few quid for something, I want it to last a while. Regular servicing, carrying out weekly checks (tyres, fluids etc) and being aware of any odd noises or changes in how the car feels is important and too often neglected.

 

I don't want to be like the vast majority of people on the roads who pay scant attention to any kind of maintenance.

[jakebullet]

Spacker sister has been driving for 10 years, and believes maintenance is putting fuel in it.

Mostly due to this policy, her cars start out nice and end up being sold for sod all.

 

Clio: cost £1600, sold: Chopped in on next car.

Corsa: £4000+ clio sold: £1000

Freelander: £4000 sold £1450

picanto: £2800 Hasn't died yet, but will be weigh in only.

 

So £1k a year to 'save' on not doing servicing. Plus a breakdown @ 6 month intervals which has to do with her style of don't give a shitness.

[Cavcraft]

If I have an old daily banger (see Audi) then generally it'll get fixed when it breaks or because the MOT is looming. Anything else I tend to keep an eye on and try and maintain.

Truth be told I've enjoyed making cars better before offloading them, something quite satisfying about knowing you've done work to them. Or your son has!

[HBR]

I'm with servicing what's important, a decent check now & then & investigate anything that changes. Beyond that I'll just sort things as they need it on a daily driver. Many folk say it's only worth £500, why should I spend £50-100 on service stuff etc but it's not the worth of the car you're trying to protect, it's avoiding it letting you down or becoming dangerous.

If it does let you down in a big enough way that means you've got to replace it then that's time/hassle/money plus what will the money buy you? If I change my car I want something in significantly better condition than what I have, if you get something in similar condition to what you had then if the original car could've been fixed for the same money then you may as well have done that & at least you'd know the motor.

If it's a keeper, something you care about then it's different & what you spend on it is a different matter to a runabout.

[dollywobbler]

You have to make a call sometimes. The Range Rover started to feel like it could well start costing me a fortune. The ABS wasn't working, the heater wasn't working and there were some clonks from the front end suggesting that expenditure there was quite likely. My hand was forced at the time by abject skintness, but throwing money at it probably wasn't the answer.

 

My last BX started giving me the jitters, so I sold it to a friend - always dangerous. He's done over 12,000 miles in it with no servicing at all and has had to replace one rear suspension unit, a section of exhaust and a fuel filter housing. That's it. My jitter-sense failed me big time!

[stormee]

A yes for oil service and checking other fluids. A frequent check for loose or torn hoses and all rubber parts and corrosion is a must for old cars. A good advice is: always listen to your car! Recently I heard a slight whine from the steering/PAS-pump in my newly bought BMW. Checked and found the fluid level beyound 'low'. Topped up, noise gone.

My former Passat on the other hand had been living a daily driver life well ridden into the ground within 8 years at minimal service and only replacing broken parts. Bought with 185k km and already 17 years old in 2004 I got rid of it recently with a still good engine but with a long list of to-dos. Some cars refuse to leave the road.

[Cavcraft]

Better than the Passat that I had then, that refused to stay on the road.

[RoadworkUK]

The Audi is impossible to under-maintain as it tells you when it needs doing. I then whisk it into the workshop, do oil and filters and anything I can think of that needs a look at, reset the service-o-meter and start again.

 

Of course, the DIY method means that stuff that a dealership would charge you hand over fist for simply never get done. I daresay the Audi has never had a replacement pollen filter, for example. So far I've given it four oil and filter changes, two bearings, a CV joint and a cambelt. All in servicing has probably cost me £300. Plus the grand that it cost me to buy, that's about £200 for every 10K I've put on it. Damn good value if you ask me.

[Pete-M]

I'm pretty sure the best way to buy decent cars is to hunt down ones owned by people who maintain them properly. Harder than it sounds.

 

However, other than the 604... everything I own has got insanely bulging detailed service history folders. Yet none of it was expensive.

 

Ok, the BMW only has a massive history folder because it's done more miles than Jean-Luc Picard. But it has been looked after about as well as its possible to.

 

The Jag was owned by a very nice, but blatantly fanatic engineer bloke (with a tashe). One of those chaps who buys a nice car, discovers there's a club, joins the club and then pumps huge amount of money into his car in an attempt to make it one of the best out there before getting bored and buying something sensible quite probably in order save his marriage. That's got bills for £9k or so over the 6 years and 18,000 miles he did in it. Scary. It needs a few cosmetic bits doing, two rear shocks and a good service. I reckon £700 to get it mint again. Nicer than when I bought it.

 

The Escort was owned by Germans. Every Deutchmark spent appears to have been logged.

 

The Jeep I bought from a chap who makes records. Musical gent. He just spent whatever it needed to keep it going properly. Then got bored. It needs maintenance, but all the major stuff has been done. New diff, new immobiliser, loads of other bits at the main agent. There's probably £7k of bills in the wallet for that. I've got to do a few bits where he skimped towards the end.

 

With the exception of the Escort, none would fetch anywhere near what has been spent on them. Not by a long stretch. The 604 has no bills with it, but what I've thrown at it already is quite probably more than it's worth. These aren't the kind of cars you can ignore servicing on.

 

Something like an old Vectra can't really get much worse than they were new, so abusing them makes sense. If anything, they seem to thrive on it. Old Fiestas were the same, as long as nothing actually fell off between buying it and the MOT expiry date then just keep on running the bloody thing. Ex-girlfriend many moons ago had a C plate, ex-MerseyDibble 950 Fiesta Mk2. The only Valencia engine I've ever heard where the camshaft could be heard knocking its plums off over the tappet noise from 200 yards yet the fucking thing would not die. The bonnet came up at MOT time and that was it. Yet it managed about 50,000 miles like that. Then her dad threw another 950 lump in - the only servicing the thing had other than occasionally getting tyres at MOT time.

 

I've never had a car that soldiered on like that. Mine tend to go bang.