Bus Shite

[busmansholiday]

The Vector was operating an hour long tour which left on the hour so it was easy to miss. Here's a front shot of it at 2pm. Looking at the pictures and shadows we must have walked past each other. I was there 1 till 2.

 

[Soap Distant]

HOR is a fine machine. Bit of a hybrid, the PDR1/3. As Leylands first version of a lowheight Atlantean was an unholy mess upstairs they tried again using the drop centre axle from the Albion Lowlander and the gearbox from the Daimler Fleetline and so allowing a normal upper deck layout. Riding on this very one was a wonderful mash up of noise, from the gruff growl of an early Atlantean starting away until top gear is reached at which point the unmistakable whine from the Fleetline derived gearbox takes over. Sublime!

HOR is quite a remarkable survivor as well having been re converted back from open top using, I believe, the complete roof from another member from the same batch.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

I always wondered that too. Now I know. Thanks.

In other news my RM passed its last ever MOT today! When I arrived they'd just finished doing this.

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1967 King Alfred Atlantean which also just passed its last MOT. Talking to the tester about wether they'd still offer a pseudo test and they probably will but even he didn't know exactly what yet. He suggested every two years would suffice on something like mine with the use it gets. Although I'm thinking 18 months might be better as January is never a great time to be messing around with buses. Especially ones with 53 year old diesel engines that have no glow plugs or cold start devices. Luckily it wasn't too cold this morning and it started after much churning. Apparently it was a lot colder up north. I have a system for really cold starts that involves holding a blowlamp to the air intake and tying a piece of string to the starter so I can operate it from outside the bus. Not ideal.

Congrats on the pass. I’ve only properly discovered this thread more recently - have you shared the story of your RM further back? If so, I’ll have a proper dig through. I didn’t realise they were so simplistic in their cold start procedure - I guess old derv lorries are the same as well?

[busmansholiday]

Congrats on getting the RM through the test. Modern stuff doesn't always start in cold weather and my 14 plate Ducato motorhome told me to piss off today. Eventually told it that resistance is futile and managed to jump it.

This and your comments reminded me of how we started Leopards back in cold weather in the late 70's. Stick it in neutral, press the start button, then wedge a match into the start button to keep it in. Walk to the offside and liberally spay the easystart into the air filter. Most of a can later, assuming the batteries were decent, and it would fire up. Nip back to the cab and remove the match. Put a stick from the dash to throttle to keep some revs up whilst you went for a cuppa.

The stick under the dash was an early form of cruise control, usefully on things like RE's with heavy throttle pedals.

[dozeydustman]

That looks familiar - Hedingham are still using at least one of those round here on a school contract. Well, I suppose they wouldn't want any of their nice buses getting damaged by those little angels would they?

 

 

I wouldn't let horrid school kids on a fine machine like a Bristol VR. G-reg Volvo Olympian, yes.

[puddlethumper]

The more refined version of the "burning rag" method regularly employed in the dim, distant past!

Ah, the burning rag. Nothing to do with bus's but some years ago I had a 1938 Ford Canada truck and a wire coat hanger 

with a rag tied round the end and dipped in diesel worked a treat. Never failed.

 

Edit; Better than easy fart.

[twosmoke300]

A front mounted intercooler on a rear engines bus must have monumental turbo lag

[Yoss]

Congrats on getting the RM through the test. Modern stuff doesn't always start in cold weather and my 14 plate Ducato motorhome told me to piss off today. Eventually told it that resistance is futile and managed to jump it.

This and your comments reminded me of how we started Leopards back in cold weather in the late 70's. Stick it in neutral, press the start button, then wedge a match into the start button to keep it in. Walk to the offside and liberally spay the easystart into the air filter. Most of a can later, assuming the batteries were decent, and it would fire up. Nip back to the cab and remove the match. Put a stick from the dash to throttle to keep some revs up whilst you went for a cuppa.

The stick under the dash was an early form of cruise control, usefully on things like RE's with heavy throttle pedals.

That's superb. Makes my setup seem positively simple. I like the solutions people come up with when they're on their own and need to be in two places at once. It focuses the mind.

[Yoss]

Congrats on the pass. I’ve only properly discovered this thread more recently - have you shared the story of your RM further back? If so, I’ll have a proper dig through. I didn’t realise they were so simplistic in their cold start procedure - I guess old derv lorries are the same as well?

Try page 47.

[Soap Distant]

Congrats on getting the RM through the test. Modern stuff doesn't always start in cold weather and my 14 plate Ducato motorhome told me to piss off today. Eventually told it that resistance is futile and managed to jump it.

This and your comments reminded me of how we started Leopards back in cold weather in the late 70's. Stick it in neutral, press the start button, then wedge a match into the start button to keep it in. Walk to the offside and liberally spay the easystart into the air filter. Most of a can later, assuming the batteries were decent, and it would fire up. Nip back to the cab and remove the match. Put a stick from the dash to throttle to keep some revs up whilst you went for a cuppa.

The stick under the dash was an early form of cruise control, usefully on things like RE's with heavy throttle pedals.

And daft bastards like me having to deal with burnt out starters, easy start addicted engines, worn bores, broken cranks........

680s were a pussycat (especially in a leopard -Ho Ho) to start if they were set up right. Full throttle, hit the starter and take your foot off the pedal when it caught. Gardners were no throttle, round the back and push up the cold start plunger push the button and away you (might) go with an imperial shed load of Gardner blue. Now the Perkins P6 award for being a complete bastard to get going in the cold was the veritable 510. At least you could warm yourself on the starter motor after an prolonged effort. At Chase, we used to just get them all (about 30 of the buggers) going at 6 and let them tick over until they had to go out on service. Smoky.

 

The RE cruise control stick was a well known modification on the Anglo Scottish REs. They were run with Gardner REs and the throttle was bloody heavy. All this came to an end when a passenger on one of the overnight Londons wrote in to compliment the crew -"the drivers were so smooth that they didn't wake me up when they changed over along the A1" - the cruise control stick was very good for driver changes on the move!

[Yoss]

HOR is a fine machine. Bit of a hybrid, the PDR1/3. As Leylands first version of a lowheight Atlantean was an unholy mess upstairs they tried again using the drop centre axle from the Albion Lowlander and the gearbox from the Daimler Fleetline and so allowing a normal upper deck layout. Riding on this very one was a wonderful mash up of noise, from the gruff growl of an early Atlantean starting away until top gear is reached at which point the unmistakable whine from the Fleetline derived gearbox takes over. Sublime!

HOR is quite a remarkable survivor as well having been re converted back from open top using, I believe, the complete roof from another member from the same batch.

My memories of this bus mainly involve condensation.

 

Living so close to Winchester I'd always be at the King Alfred running days on Jan 1st. By the end it had become a massive event with probably every preserved bus within a two hour radius turning up. But by the end of the day from about 4pm when all the visiting buses had left the King Alfred buses were still running local trips round Winchester in the dark. It would have invariably rained at some point during the day and was it was also freezing (I think these were the main reasons they decided to call time on the event. I think most of the volunteers are of a certain age and trying to keep all their buses running in those conditions is no fun).

 

So by the time of last run the buses had had hundreds of wet people traipsing on and off all day and I remember them being so wet the condensation was actually dripping off the ceiling.

[Soap Distant]

Those running days were ace, you never knew what would turn up and it was one of the last times I managed to bag a Metroscania.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Try page 47.

Wow. Owning an RM at the tender age of twenty. That’s aspiration right there.

[Yoss]

I dont think we were the first to do it though these days they'll be lusting after Plaxton Pointer Darts and the old fogeys like me are thinking why on earth would you want one of those. But it's all about what you grew up with I think. But then I drive a Skoda Favorit so I'm used to people looking at me the same way.

[busmansholiday]

All this came to an end when a passenger on one of the overnight Londons wrote in to compliment the crew -"the drivers were so smooth that they didn't wake me up when they changed over along the A1" - the cruise control stick was very good for driver changes on the move!

You didn't need the stick trick to be able to swop drivers at speed on the motorway, just enough space to be able to get past the handbrake and behind the seat as your mate took over. Had to remember not to be overtaking anything when you did this...

[busmansholiday]

I dont think we were the first to do it though these days they'll be lusting after Plaxton Pointer Darts and the old fogeys like me are thinking why on earth would you want one of those. But it's all about what you grew up with I think.

I spent a lot of time looking at that Leeds Atlantean on Sunday. I remember Sheffield's example very well from this era. Eventually I thought to myself, "yes,I still fucking hate these bags of shite". Sorry if anybody here owns one, but I grew up with them and they are hateful (like a Dart).

[dollywobbler]

A front mounted intercooler on a rear engines bus must have monumental turbo lag

 

That was my thought. Having massively long coolant pipes is one thing, but having a 60ft inlet tract doesn't seem ideal.

[jon.k]

I'm really enjoying this thread. It's really interesting to hear perspectives on these buses from people who've owned and worked on them. On the topic of the cold starting; a friend of mine worked in a bus garage as a teenager in the 50s, and he recently told me that the owners had decided that it was cheaper to keep the whole fleet running and warm until midnight, than fill them with antifreeze. Sounds odd to me, but he assured me that it was someone's job to come and turn them all off last thing at night. I'll check with him and find out what buses they were.

 

Also an on topic chance to photowhore my lynx, almost

[cobblers]

We've quite a few customers that have sent us boost packs in for repair and mark them VOR cos they've only one boost pack and half their fleet won't start off their own batteries.

[busmansholiday]

^^^ I knew a few independent companies that when it got to very cold temperatures simply left the buses running all night in the yard. Generally they ran very old leopards, often with 0600 engines.

[Zelandeth]

I dont think we were the first to do it though these days they'll be lusting after Plaxton Pointer Darts and the old fogeys like me are thinking why on earth would you want one of those. But it's all about what you grew up with I think. But then I drive a Skoda Favorit so I'm used to people looking at me the same way.

 

Exactly.  It's usually about what you grew up with.

 

Duple Dominant II bodied Bedford YNT coach, please. STA380R being the vehicle that started the interest for me.

 

Or a late 80s Leyland Olympian with an RH body - but only if it's a Cummins L10 powered one, not least for *that exhaust note* (wonderfully demonstrated by E130DRS on YouTube I believe).  Had the opportunity to spend a good run on one of them flat out as on a mate's one one day - suffice to say I parked myself in the offside rear seat right next to the exhaust.  Only problem I have in that situation is that there's always a danger of me falling asleep, always find steady mechanical noise like that very soothing.

 

Back seat of the Volvo B7R coaches Stagecoach have with the inevitable ZF box that howls in top was effective on that count too.  Managed to end up in Huntly heading out of Aberdeen on the 10 once because I was out like a light after about 15 minutes and totally missed Inverurie which was where I was aiming for.

 

Was on one of the coaches on the X5 to Oxford here recently and was totally disappointed... suspension feels like it's from an Audi S4 rather than a coach, and the gearbox which feels to be a robotically controlled manual would drive me insane if I was driving...thing took about two seconds for each change and was set up so that you were in about fourth by the time you'd finished pulling out of a junction!

 

Biggest issue though was the ride...that floaty feeling as a coach wafts down the road is a big part of it for me...they just don't feel like coaches.  Just a really big, awkward car.

 

Think I'll stick with a Bedford thanks...

[Soap Distant]

Corporations used to go to great lengths to keep buses warm over winter times. A good number never ran with antifreeze but plumbed in the bus every night into a central heating system run by a big boiler in the garage somewhere. Thus the engines were never cold and saved precious fuel and engine wear in the mornings on starting cold engines. The poor passengers never felt the benefit though as they were invariably never fitted with heaters!

Thinking of weird solutions to problems you never thought existed was one corporation that never ran its buses with oil filters. Every night after the bus was parked up in its spot, the oil was drained and piped to a large centrifuge where the impurities were literally spun out of suspension in the oil. The refreshed oil was then put back into the engine clean for another day's work. Talk about spending pounds to save pennies!

Leyland used an engine mounted oil "spinner" centrifuge device as an option on the 0600 series engine instead of a normal oil filter. When I first came across them, I doubted their effectiveness but on cleaning it out, the thick carbon deposit that coated the inner surface proved me wrong. It was like a black plasticine like material that came out. Very weird and the engines that had this device fitted seemed to last a bit longer too.

[Guest Hooli]

Sounds like the sludge trap on a Triumph motorbike, except they brilliantly* put them inside the crank so as they blocked up you got no flow to the big ends.

 

ETA, small bikes like Honda CG125s use centrifugal filters too, as you say a lot of crud gets caught in them.

[Soap Distant]

how it worked was that the oil was fed up a central shaft into a head which contained angled jets sprayed the oil out to the sides,of the unit. This also spun the top containing the jets around at some speed. The oil then ran down and was piped from the unit back into the sump. If you looked at it, you wouldn't believe it was that effective but it really was.

[dollywobbler]

Disco TD5 runs a centrifugal oil filter I believe. Presumably quite a few other cars do too.

[Christine]

Scratchbuilt plasticard , what are they please ? A OB  ?

 

 

 

 

 

[MorrisItalSLX]

Scratchbuilt plasticard , what are they please ? A OB  ?

 

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Livery looks like Sydney Buses, Circa 1940s - 1960s

[twosmoke300]

Belarus tractors use a centrifuge and it’s very effective

[rml2345]

Scratchbuilt plasticard , what are they please ? A OB ?

 

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The top one is indeed a Bedford OB with what looks like a Mulliner bus body. The bottom one looks like an Eastern Counties bodied Dennis Mace which is a bit more oddball. Both look pretty bloody good though, whoever built them had some skills.

[busmansholiday]

Bus wise, no. But class 66 locos are all V12 two smokers