Infamous Shite in History.

[Eyersey1234]

Liked for the history not the crimes.

[LightBulbFun]

maybe infamous shite in the making?

https://www.facebook.com/StokePolice/photos/a.260291284925300/1050308965923524

I hope theres footage of the chase somewhere! 

but id love to know just what happened in the first place, how do you come to be running away from the police in an MGB GT V8, maybe some criminal from the 1970's accidentally drove through a time warp?  

reminds me of some way of the infamous Morris minor chase

[Richard_FM]

5 hours ago, martc said:

Not a vehicle used in a crime, but a vehicle used to transport criminals.

For the curious, the following text accompanied the photo...

The Old Bailey, January 1945. Outside a bricked-up Central Criminal Court (Old Bailey), people queue to get a much in demand seat at the trial of the “Cleft Chin Murderers”. The cleft chin murder was a killing which occurred as part of a string of crimes during 1944. It became known as the "cleft chin murder" because the murder victim, George Edward Heath, a taxi driver, had a cleft chin. The culprits were Karl Hultén, a deserter from the U.S. Army, and Elizabeth Jones, an eighteen-year-old waitress.

On 3 October 1944, Jones met Hultén in a tea shop. The relationship lasted only six days. During that time they knocked over a nurse cycling along a country lane and robbed her; picked up a hitchhiker, knocked her unconscious, robbed her, and then threw her into a river to drown (though she survived); finally, they murdered taxi driver George Edward Heath near Staines in Middlesex. They robbed Heath of £8, which they spent at the dog races the next day. After spending the taxi driver's £8, Jones announced she wanted a fur coat. Hultén attacked a woman in the street and tried to snatch her coat, but the police came and Hultén only just managed to escape in the stolen taxi driver’s car.

 He was eventually caught because the car was still in his possession. In the meantime Jones had gone to the police and admitted to the crimes, to ease her conscience. During the trial they implicated each other. They were both found guilty of murdering Heath and were sentenced by Mr Justice Charles to be hanged. While Hultén was executed at Pentonville Prison on 8 March 1945, Jones was reprieved and released in May 1954. Her subsequent fate is unknown, although there are reports of her death occurring in 1980.

The reprieve caused some controversy, because many people considered the crimes to be cowardly, and in a war-torn Britain where everyone was pulling together to face a common enemy, almost treasonous. "SHE SHOULD HANG" was graffitied in several places in Jones's home town.

 

I think this was turned into a film, I remember seeing something where a GI boasts about been a hitman before the war & shoots a taxi driver through the back of his seat to show be wasn't bragging.

[bunglebus]

44 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

maybe infamous shite in the making?

https://www.facebook.com/StokePolice/photos/a.260291284925300/1050308965923524

Careless use of strap bending the wing

[Datsuncog]

Not so much history as historical in a general sense - but it never fails to surprise me how attached paramilitaries in Northern Ireland are to Vauxhall Cavaliers.

Maghera: Victim of sectarian attack says lives have been wrecked - BBC News

I mean, this only happened last Wednesday. Cavaliers aren't exactly a common sight on roads in Northern Ireland anymore, yet still the lads with the balaclavas seem to gravitate towards them.

I can recall a number of incidents over the past few years involving Cavs; the only one I could find with a cursory search was a car bomb planted not far from me a few years ago, also involving a Cavalier.

The 2009 Massarene Barracks shooting in Antrim used a stolen Cavalier as a getaway car. The killers tried and failed to set fire to it afterwards.

And most notoriously, the Omagh Bombing used a red Cavalier.

So this is why Mk3 Cavs probably aren't a smart choice as a modern classic over here... too much chance of getting stolen, or making you a target for a police stop...

[sierraman]

Ironically I’d noticed that too, why the Cavalier? It’s almost a trademark, I think the Granada, Cargo and FX2 Taxis were quite popular as well

[Vinylseats]

Back in the news:

A married man who murdered his lover and her young son more than 45 years ago will likely die behind bars.

William MacDowell, 80, was sentenced to life in prison with a recommendation that he serve a minimum of 30 years for killing Renee and Andrew MacRae in November 1976.

MacDowell, of Penrith, Cumbria, killed the mother and son at a layby near Dalmagarry on the A9, about 12 miles south of Inverness.

Mrs MacRae's BMW car was discovered on fire in the layby but the bodies have never been found.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/man-80-sentenced-to-life-after-murdering-his-lover-and-their-son-more-than-45-years-ago-12707789

 

 

 

The company Volvo used by MacDowell.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/29/renee-andrew-macrae-murder-inverness-1976-william-macdowell-guilty

 

[Metal Guru]

6 hours ago, Vinylseats said:

Back in the news:

A married man who murdered his lover and her young son more than 45 years ago will likely die behind bars.

William MacDowell, 80, was sentenced to life in prison with a recommendation that he serve a minimum of 30 years for killing Renee and Andrew MacRae in November 1976.

MacDowell, of Penrith, Cumbria, killed the mother and son at a layby near Dalmagarry on the A9, about 12 miles south of Inverness.

Mrs MacRae's BMW car was discovered on fire in the layby but the bodies have never been found.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/man-80-sentenced-to-life-after-murdering-his-lover-and-their-son-more-than-45-years-ago-12707789

 

 

 

The company Volvo used by MacDowell.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/29/renee-andrew-macrae-murder-inverness-1976-william-macdowell-guilty

 

Nothing like stating  the obvious. He’s 80 , sentenced to a minimum 30 years, “ will likely due behind bars”.

[vaughant]

On 5/10/2022 at 1:28 AM, Vinylseats said:

Pregnant Marie Wilks' Morris Marina coupe, which broke down on the M50 near Tewkesbury in Gloucestershire, leading to her being murdered whilst she was using the roadside emergency phone, in 1988.

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Marie_Wilks

 

Wrongly accused Eddie Browning the ex squaddie/bouncer drove a Renault 25 as well. 

Yet another South Wales police fit up that went wrong. 

Bad as the victims family will never know who did it as they chose to try and fit someone up they didn't like and wanted off the scene. 

Lynette White murders, the Swansea sex shop murders, the Clydach murders. SWP have a lot to answer for. 

Sorry library photo, couldn't even find an original on wiki, weird as there were loads at the time. 

 

[vaughant]

With stuff like this I think you just know if you're a car person or not. 

I can always remember the Hungerford murders as it was when I was a kid and so out of turn for the UK but the first thing I thought was fuck me he must be rich, he's got a year old Astra!!! 

Same with the M50 murders and Browning, he had a C reg R25, I mean that was decent money back then as well at 2 yrs old. Bamber with his 3i that was again only a few years old. 

It's strange as I always felt as a kid that if you murdered someone, you were a poor person from a lonely background, probably because money etc wasn't in the forefront of my mind as a motive but seeing the cars really changed my perspective on it, made me realise there's odd bods everywhere. 

 

[horriblemercedes]

2 minutes ago, vaughant said:

With stuff like this I think you just know if you're a car person or not. 

I can always remember the Hungerford murders as it was when I was a kid and so out of turn for the UK but the first thing I thought was fuck me he must be rich, he's got a year old Astra!!! 

Same with the M50 murders and Browning, he had a C reg R25, I mean that was decent money back then as well at 2 yrs old. Bamber with his 3i that was again only a few years old. 

It's strange as I always felt as a kid that if you murdered someone, you were a poor person from a lonely background, probably because money etc wasn't in the forefront of my mind as a motive but seeing the cars really changed my perspective on it, made me realise there's odd bods everywhere. 

 

 

I seem to recall that Jeremy Bamber stood to inherit a lot of money if his adoptive parents died. I don't think he was wealthy in his own right.

I have no idea what kind of car he drove, but I thought he was working as a farm hand on the family farm and his house and car were provided by the parents. I think that money was exactly the motive.

[sierraman]

2 hours ago, horriblemercedes said:

 

I seem to recall that Jeremy Bamber stood to inherit a lot of money if his adoptive parents died. I don't think he was wealthy in his own right.

I have no idea what kind of car he drove, but I thought he was working as a farm hand on the family farm and his house and car were provided by the parents. I think that money was exactly the motive.

I think both Bamber and Ryan had an Astra GTE, both paid for by the parents. 

[greengartside]

Yep, definitely the case with Michael Ryan’s GTE, his mother doted on him and gave him anything he wanted - even if it meant her getting into horrendous debt over it.

[Richard_FM]

On 9/30/2022 at 9:55 AM, vaughant said:

With stuff like this I think you just know if you're a car person or not. 

I can always remember the Hungerford murders as it was when I was a kid and so out of turn for the UK but the first thing I thought was fuck me he must be rich, he's got a year old Astra!!! 

Same with the M50 murders and Browning, he had a C reg R25, I mean that was decent money back then as well at 2 yrs old. Bamber with his 3i that was again only a few years old. 

It's strange as I always felt as a kid that if you murdered someone, you were a poor person from a lonely background, probably because money etc wasn't in the forefront of my mind as a motive but seeing the cars really changed my perspective on it, made me realise there's odd bods everywhere. 

 

Peter Sutcliffe normally had cars a few years old that he was maintaining himself, apart from one of the early attacks when he had a newish Capri.  I presume he had to sell it when he was sacked from one job or made redundant from another.

[vaughant]

On 9/30/2022 at 3:39 PM, greengartside said:

Yep, definitely the case with Michael Ryan’s GTE, his mother doted on him and gave him anything he wanted - even if it meant her getting into horrendous debt over it.

They did have a lovely house in a nice part of Hungerford which is a nice place as well from memory or was that before it all kicked off? I remember the Astra parked outside a shit looking council house with the stereotypical knocked down wall and shit everywhere but I think that was Michael's own house rather than the family home. 

[vaughant]

21 minutes ago, vaughant said:

They did have a lovely house in a nice part of Hungerford which is a nice place as well from memory or was that before it all kicked off? I remember the Astra parked outside a shit looking council house with the stereotypical knocked down wall and shit everywhere but I think that was Michael's own house rather than the family home. 

I am wrong, as usual, looks like they had both moved into the smaller house a few years before however a streetview reveals some quality chod from 13 years ago!!! 

[Split_Pin]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:17 PM, Datsuncog said:

Not so much history as historical in a general sense - but it never fails to surprise me how attached paramilitaries in Northern Ireland are to Vauxhall Cavaliers.

Maghera: Victim of sectarian attack says lives have been wrecked - BBC News

I mean, this only happened last Wednesday. Cavaliers aren't exactly a common sight on roads in Northern Ireland anymore, yet still the lads with the balaclavas seem to gravitate towards them.

I can recall a number of incidents over the past few years involving Cavs; the only one I could find with a cursory search was a car bomb planted not far from me a few years ago, also involving a Cavalier.

The 2009 Massarene Barracks shooting in Antrim used a stolen Cavalier as a getaway car. The killers tried and failed to set fire to it afterwards.

And most notoriously, the Omagh Bombing used a red Cavalier.

So this is why Mk3 Cavs probably aren't a smart choice as a modern classic over here... too much chance of getting stolen, or making you a target for a police stop...

 

[greengartside]

5 hours ago, vaughant said:

I am wrong, as usual, looks like they had both moved into the smaller house a few years before however a streetview reveals some quality chod from 13 years ago!!! 

From what I understand, Michael still lived with his mother at South View and on the afternoon of the rampage, he set the house alight and it was destroyed beyond repair. A new house was built in its place.

[sierraman]

5 hours ago, greengartside said:

From what I understand, Michael still lived with his mother at South View and on the afternoon of the rampage, he set the house alight and it was destroyed beyond repair. A new house was built in its place.

Block of flats there now. 

[J R Hartley]

Allegro used by David Evans in the murder of Anna Humphries in 1988. As the girl fought for her life during the attack the windscreen was damaged.  Evans later drove to a garage to have the windscreen replaced with the dead girl's body still in the boot. 

 

[warren t claim]

https://buy.motorious.com/articles/features/348633/was-grace-kellys-rover-p6-really-sabotaged

[martc]

Thread  resurrection...

The 1939  Alfa Romeo Touring 6C 2500 Super Sport in which Il Duce was arrested when trying to escape in 1945.

I think it survives, but the info is behind a pay wall. And it's in Italian. Mussolini gave his mistress a similar car, which definitely survives, but I don't know if it's the one above.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mussolinis-1939-alfa-romeo-6c-auctioned-2015-2?op=1

 

[D.E]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annecy_shootings

[Pieman]

1 hour ago, martc said:

Thread  resurrection...

The 1939  Alfa Romeo Touring 6C 2500 Super Sport in which Il Duce was arrested when trying to escape in 1945.

I think it survives, but the info is behind a pay wall. And it's in Italian. Mussolini gave his mistress a similar car, which definitely survives, but I don't know if it's the one above.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mussolinis-1939-alfa-romeo-6c-auctioned-2015-2?op=1

 

I know it's a cliché to say all Alfas are beautiful, but that one really is stunning!

[D.E]

The Mercedes driven by Tristan van der Vlis :

The Hyundai of one of the victims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting

[MiniMinorMk3]

19 hours ago, martc said:

Thread  resurrection...

The 1939  Alfa Romeo Touring 6C 2500 Super Sport in which Il Duce was arrested when trying to escape in 1945.

I think it survives, but the info is behind a pay wall. And it's in Italian. Mussolini gave his mistress a similar car, which definitely survives, but I don't know if it's the one above.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mussolinis-1939-alfa-romeo-6c-auctioned-2015-2?op=1

 

They are the same car. 

1939 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 S Touring Berlinetta - Chassis 915033 - Ultimatecarpage.com

Quote

Chassis: 915033
Built in 1939, this 6C 2500 Sport was clothed with a Touring Berlinetta body and ordered new by Italy's dictator Benito Mussolini for his mistress, Claretta Petacci. She used the car during the War years, chauffeur-driven by a Mr. Franz Spogler. He later recounted Petacci's thwarted attempt to flee across the border from the Italian partisans in 1945. They were stopped close to Lake Como, and like her infamous lover, Petacci was captured. After the War, the Touring Berlinetta was acquired by an American service man and shipped to the United States. It re-discovered in a barn in upstate New York during the 1970s but it was not restored until many years later when it was entrusted to Italian expert Francesco Bonfanti. Fittingly, the car was shown on the shore of Lake Como, during the 2007 Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este where it won first in class. In 2011, it also won best of show in the annual Salon Privé show. The owner has now consigned the car to the 2015 RM Auctions Paris Sale. The estimate is for the ex-Mussolini 6C 2500 Sport is Euro 1.9 - 2.4 million.

1939 Alfa Romeo 6C2500 Sport Berlinetta by Touring | Paris 2015 | RM Sotheby's (rmsothebys.com)

Quote

In April 1945, with the war in Europe in its final days, Claretta Petacci, her brother, Marcelo, and his family left the Italian town of Salo to rendezvous with Mussolini and his last small band of supporters, who were plotting their escape. They headed north via Milan, travelling on the western shore of Lake Como, and were escorted by only a small procession of four or five cars, including Signora Petacci’s Alfa. Along the way, the group was joined by a heavily armed German anti-aircraft unit, which was also fleeing the advancing Allied forces.

Most accounts report that Mussolini’s getaway plan was to seek asylum in Switzerland. The Alfa Romeo was disguised with Spanish diplomatic license plates and legation flags and was driven by Marcello Petacci, who posed as the Spanish ambassador to Italy.

The motorcade proceeded north until it was stopped at a partisan roadblock near the town of Dongo on 27 April 1945. Although they heavily outgunned the small partisan force, the Germans were in no mood for a fight by this stage of the war. After lengthy negotiations, the partisans finally agreed to let the convoy pass, provided that the Germans would allow the vehicles to be inspected for Italian Fascists.

Before proceeding, the most prominent Fascist of them all, Mussolini, donned the uniform of a German corporal and climbed aboard one of the German vehicles. Unfortunately for the dictator, the disguise proved unconvincing, and he was quickly identified at the checkpoint. All of the Italians in the convoy were arrested, and during the ensuing interrogations, the true identities of the “Spanish ambassador” and his “sister” were established.

Mussolini and his mistress were taken back south towards Como, to a remote partisan hideaway in Mezzegra. After reportedly spending their only full night together after 13 years of romance, they were executed, with their bodies infamously put on display in Milan.

Signora Petacci’s Alfa Romeo was confiscated by the Italian authorities and moved to Livorno. Around 1946, it was acquired by an American Army Air Corps officer, Major Charles Pettit. Pettit drove the Alfa in Italy whilst based at Camp Darby near Livorno, and in 1949, he shipped it back to his family’s farm in New York State, where he drove it for several years before a connecting rod failed. The car then sat dormant on the farm for many years; that is until it was acquired in 1967 by Pettit’s uncle, Albert Harris, who partially dismantled it in anticipation of a restoration that never proceeded.

 

[Pieman]

I keep coming back to this thread, I have a strange fascination with cars connected to infamous crimes.

Anyone know what Lucy Letby drove?

[somewhatfoolish]

1 hour ago, Pieman said:

I keep coming back to this thread, I have a strange fascination with cars connected to infamous crimes.

Anyone know what Lucy Letby drove?

From the vid of her arrest a Suzuki Splash or Voxul Agila.

[Markeh]

10 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

From the vid of her arrest a Suzuki Splash or Voxul Agila.

I make that a Splash - no chrome trim across the top of the grille like you'd get on an Agila.

[D.E]

Donny M., a nonce who currently stands trial for the abduction, abuse and murder of a nine-year old boy, used a ropey shit Lupo to abduct the child:

He was quickly caught partly due to his car, a vehicle with mismatched panels stands out...