What the hell shall I buy?

[carlo]

I'm needing some inspiration or perhaps an alternative/left field choice I'd never thought of.  Am currently driving a combination of my wonderful 405 saloon which I've had for fourteen years, and a Xsara Picasso for longer journeys/when things need moving.  The 405 has erratic air con which only works sometimes, and I can't drive a car without it (yes I am a bit weird).  The Picasso is reliable, amazing in its carrying capacity and I have respect for it but don't love it; it's poor on the motorway especially in windy conditions and the ride's not brilliant for a 90's designed French car.  Not very beautiful either.  

So as I'm getting to be old and senile I fancy replacing them with one car, budget around £4K but I have a strange set of priorities.  It must be, in this order:

1.  Supremely comfortable / excellent ride (I'm talking 405/406/Rover 75 levels here, but they're probably the best three anyway in the last two decades.)

2. Pretty quick, torquey engine.  Don't mind diesel or petrol

3. Must be automatic, don't really fancy VAG with the crumbly DSG boxes.

4. Estate ideally or large hatchback

The perfect car would be a 406 V6 Estate Auto but they're virtually extinct.  I have considered a C Class Merc but the repair bills terrify me, especially in this price range.  Otherwise very drawn to a Subaru Outback but never driven one.  And I suppose Citroen C5 or maybe Jag X Type.  

Any suggestions?

 

[S2000]

Maybe a Volvo V70 as an idea to kick things off?

[stuboy]

Just now, S2000 said:

Maybe a Volvo V70 as an idea to kick things off?

xc60.?

[carlo]

2 minutes ago, S2000 said:

Maybe a Volvo V70 as an idea to kick things off?

Yes that's a possibility too, had an S60 saloon and the seats/engine were wonderful.  Ride a bit crashy mind.

[MAF260]

A Passat wagon would fulfil all of your desires if you could get past the gearbox. My son bought the ex-Jazoli version late last year and it's giving him all you've asked for; currently parked up at Spa for the GP having carried him, 3 mates and all of their camping gear from the UK this morning. He's done over 10k miles in it and absolutely loves it. He's a big lad and says it's the comfiest car he's ever owned.

[Rustybullethole]

Saab wagon? 

[Wibble]

Skoda Superb all day long, all the good things of a Passat but with more room. There’s literally  nothing with more space and the DSG box is brilliant, as long as it’s correctly serviced, which isn’t expensive. Never had a problem and I’m on my fourth DSG Skoda, Mrs W’s on her second, my last one is on 200k and still going strong, current one on 122k and all good. I’ve seen taxi ones with over 300k and still going.

[Schaefft]

Citroen C6, clearly!

[wuvvum]

Are C Classes that expensive to repair?  I've spent a fair bit on mine but then I've done quite a few jobs to it - the price of parts didn't strike me as particularly steep.  And they do fly with the OM642 in them.

[Spiny Norman]

3 hours ago, Rustybullethole said:

Saab wagon? 

This. 
With the caveat that you must make sure it's solid underneath. My Noobtuned 9-5 would keep up with anything up to M5/911 class, still did high 20s mpg in town and near 40 on a run. had the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in. No silly dual clutch/DSG  shenanigans, just a nice 5 speed slushmatic. 

Personally wouldn't touch a post millennium Volvo, but a Mercedes C class in the right spec would tempt me. 

[Jazoli]

9 hours ago, Wibble said:

Skoda Superb all day long, all the good things of a Passat but with more room. There’s literally  nothing with more space and the DSG box is brilliant, as long as it’s correctly serviced, which isn’t expensive. Never had a problem and I’m on my fourth DSG Skoda, Mrs W’s on her second, my last one is on 200k and still going strong, current one on 122k and all good. I’ve seen taxi ones with over 300k and still going.

Agreed, I have had loads of VAG DSG stuff and not a single issue, mind you every one I’ve bought has had evidence of servicing, I don’t understand where this ‘fragile’ rubbish comes from, probably people who think the MOT is a service.

£4k will get you a decent B7 (‘10-‘14) Passat Estate which will feel like a modern car, rather than a flaky old Saab, they are peak ‘car’ in my opinion, I should have kept my B6 estate tbh.

 

 

 

[carlo]

Passat's quite an interesting shout actually, I really like the interior of the 2007 era ones.  Seems the price differential between ten year old and twenty year old cars is not big at the moment, I'd never even thought I could go as late as 2013/2014.

A lot of negative feelings about DSG came when I tried one a good many years ago and thought it a bit jerky in 1st/reverse, but I suppose you get used to it.  I like conventional automatics for their smoothness and 'creep'.

And I suppose if I'm looking at Passats I should consider Octavias too, which weirdly seem to fetch more money.

[Stinkwheel]

As an owner of a V70 5cyl Volvo Diesel these days I'd say you can do a lot worse. I'd specifically go for a mk3 V70 as they are actually an older Volvo in posh frock, so not too infected with FORD ownership of volvo input, also the later ones after ford naffed off, have got decent volvo engines again. They can also be had quite cheap, as i recently found out. Oh, and they are pretty easy to work on. Cambelt job on mine was a piece of cake compared to some cars  

[Jazoli]

1 hour ago, carlo said:

 

A lot of negative feelings about DSG came when I tried one a good many years ago and thought it a bit jerky in 1st/reverse, but I suppose you get used to it.  I like conventional automatics for their smoothness and 'creep'.

DSG’s creep like a normal auto, and with auto hold are very relaxing in traffic.

[bangernomics]

A green 996 and a roofrack.

[yes oui si]

The volvo 240 in the For Sale section..? 

[Bear]

C-Class... repair bills??

My experience with Mercedes is that if you maintain it (including rust prevention) sensibly then you don't get repair bills. Buy a good one without issues and barring oversight or damage, just change fluids and filters often, keep an eye on wear items and stuff like PCV setup, sensors (don't ignore a £60 cam magnet leaking until it makes you pay attention for example).

Parts are cheap, engineering is largely easy to deal with and well thought out, most components are still high quality - I'd go petrol over diesel and as old as possible with the best condition in the budget as from 2003 to 2013 Merc just transformed into a fairly average manufacturer for engineering and reliability (others caught up as much as Merc slipped back).

As a rule the cheapest and most dependable cars I've owned have been '90s Mercedes - and the ones that weren't, it was down to me either knowing they were trouble, or not having my "check this car out" eyes on and missing something most people would have spotted.

[Bear]

The Outback I had (1999 V 2.5) had a ride that could make me feel ill even when I was driving it. Still better than an Impreza/Forester for not feeling like it wants to understeer before proper turn in though.

£4K, smooth, good ride, large hatchback or estate - V6 406 aspiration...

Mitsubishi Galant Estate.

Actually I'll second @Stinkwheel on the 5-pot P2 Volvo recommendation. My XC70 was impressive as an £895 car - a £4K budget should get a really nice one particularly in summer.

Though if it goes wrong you'll wish you'd bought the Merc.

[colino]

Doesn't matter what the question is, the answer is Jaguar XF 3.0 diesel auto.

[wuvvum]

XF 3.0 Sportbrake ticks all the OP's boxes - they're not necessarily the most reliable of things but they're fantastic if you get a good one.

[carlo]

3 hours ago, Bear said:

C-Class... repair bills??

My experience with Mercedes is that if you maintain it (including rust prevention) sensibly then you don't get repair bills. Buy a good one without issues and barring oversight or damage, just change fluids and filters often, keep an eye on wear items and stuff like PCV setup, sensors (don't ignore a £60 cam magnet leaking until it makes you pay attention for example).

Parts are cheap, engineering is largely easy to deal with and well thought out, most components are still high quality - I'd go petrol over diesel and as old as possible with the best condition in the budget as from 2003 to 2013 Merc just transformed into a fairly average manufacturer for engineering and reliability (others caught up as much as Merc slipped back).

As a rule the cheapest and most dependable cars I've owned have been '90s Mercedes - and the ones that weren't, it was down to me either knowing they were trouble, or not having my "check this car out" eyes on and missing something most people would have spotted.

I am so tempted now by a C Class Merc and I think at my time of life it's about time I did it.  Do you have any opinion as to how much better (or worse) the W204 was than the W203?  Any maybe the best engine to go for?

[wuvvum]

23 minutes ago, carlo said:

Any maybe the best engine to go for?

OM642 all the way for me - as well as the extra power it sounds so much better than the 4-pot engines.  In the W204 it's also available in a higher state of tune (C350CDI).  The engine and the 7G-tronic gearbox are normally fairly reliable as long as they've been serviced properly (gearbox service is often overlooked).  The W204 does have the added complication of a DPF though.

Personally I don't like the interior of the pre-facelift W204 but that's just a matter of taste.  A facelift car should be within your budget anyway.

One thing I would say - given that ride comfort is your number one priority, avoid going for a car with the sports suspension.  My C Class has it and it doesn't ride as well as the 75 or indeed a standard W203.  I assume the W204 is the same.

[Ghosty]

I'd also have said C class, or even an E. 

Aisin autoboxes in P2 V70s aren't without their issues, but a P1 would be fine. 

Shame the auto V50s are all PowerShift unless you find a five cylinder.

[Bear]

2 hours ago, carlo said:

I am so tempted now by a C Class Merc and I think at my time of life it's about time I did it.  Do you have any opinion as to how much better (or worse) the W204 was than the W203?  Any maybe the best engine to go for?

Opinion - I don't have much experience of post-W202 - is that I like Mercs as simple and old as possible in the required parameters, so W203, and if I wanted smooth and quick, M112 V6 C320 Estate would be the go-to option; old enough to avoid hideous tax, new enough to avoid ULEZ issues except on the very first models, compact, reasonably soft ride, and less full of expensive modules and displays and so forth.

[GeordieInExile]

21 hours ago, Schaefft said:

Citroen C6, clearly!

Ideally this but if not, an XM estate. 

[Bear]

1 hour ago, GeordieInExile said:

Ideally this but if not, an XM estate. 

Smart choice: Xantia Estate

Obvious thing we didn't suggest: Citroen C5 II Exclusive estate. V6 would be hen dentures, but the HDI I had years ago was a really impressive beast for the immense mileage on it and well under £4K even in 2017.

And the fixed hub wheel felt more special than a C6 interior, plus the brakes worked.

[GeordieInExile]

10 hours ago, Bear said:

Smart choice: Xantia Estate

Obvious thing we didn't suggest: Citroen C5 II Exclusive estate. V6 would be hen dentures, but the HDI I had years ago was a really impressive beast for the immense mileage on it and well under £4K even in 2017.

And the fixed hub wheel felt more special than a C6 interior, plus the brakes worked.

This is what I would like next. 

Or even a C5 MK1 tbh. They're value.

[EyesWeldedShut]

14 hours ago, Bear said:

so W203,

My only experience of that era/type is the 2006 W209 CLK from this forum. I really like it. It is a keeper.
5G ATF gearbox, 'only' the 4 cylinder diseasel. Really easy to work on, parts plentiful and cheap. Driven in 'giffermode' on the autobox selection it is a very, very nice place to be. I'd imagine the 6 cyl diesel must be even more pleasant. Can get a move on when required but, these days, I'm less in a rush.
My (appalling) googlefoo skills have frequently highlighted the high degree of commonality with the W203 -which suggests the latter may also have the same sort of comfort/ease of maintainability?
I much prefer the C class to the Rover 75 we had - that's just a personal thing mainly related to the driving position.

The SLK here has the 6 Cyl M112 petrol engine mentioned above. It's a lovely thing. Again - no big deal to work on (despite an utter, utter, load of shite internet lore saying the opposite - sorry, bit of hate there) and it is smoooother than Roger Moore with a G&T as the sun goes down. Quieter than a church mouse too. Kind of thirsty but you don't get 200+ BHP without putting in the required octanes.

The original post mentioned an Outback?
Had a 2010 pezz one of those. CVT had the  stalling out problem (common at that time but fixed at some point - Google knows) - other than that this was a beastie. Really, really nice to drive, a little bit higher off the ground than a normal estate (without going into SUV country) and I would rate that a close second to a MB.
Huge boot (great for the dogs) and a proper 4/5 seater thing. Sold it during lockdown - kind of regret that now.

[Snipes]

[Popsicle]

On 25/07/2025 at 03:25, Jazoli said:

Agreed, I have had loads of VAG DSG stuff and not a single issue, mind you every one I’ve bought has had evidence of servicing, I don’t understand where this ‘fragile’ rubbish comes from, probably people who think the MOT is a service.

£4k will get you a decent B7 (‘10-‘14) Passat Estate which will feel like a modern car, rather than a flaky old Saab, they are peak ‘car’ in my opinion, I should have kept my B6 estate tbh.

 

 

 

I gave £2k for a high mileage executive bluemotion 2014 Passat earlier this year.

Other than a sticky pan roof and DAB radio being poor (fixed with a replacement stereo) its been faultless. I'm not a VW fanboy at all, but it just does everything nicely, comfortably and anonymously. Thanks to VW telling emissions porkies its only £35 pa tax, parts are cheap and plentiful, if owt goes wrong every mechanic knows their way around them. 

Its very good on fuel, this was after a 550 miles round trip to Glasgow.

 

TBH I never thought I would like it, but its been good at just being a boring car.