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BMW 5er E60 520i -Water egress doth continue.


Split_Pin

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36 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

 

The 55mph speed today meant I got 33mpg! 

 

My E61 4.4 V8 did 33 mpg at 68 mph.

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The ability an E60/61 has to consume money can't ever be underestimated.

To put this into perspective I'll tell you the story of mine.

It was bought new by my family in 2004 and spent the next 9 years and 193,000 miles on the motorway commuting between Wirral and Bristol, hardly an arduous task. All went well for the first 5 years and then the huge bills started. 120k the autobox needed replacing, the oil cooler blew, the heater stopped working, and HGF on one of the banks of cylinders. By the time it made it into my hands, there were over £20k in servicing and repair bills. The final straw was when the compressor for the rear air suspension failed due to BMW not adding the 15 minute task of removing rear undertray and cleaning out the shit to their 100,000 mile service schedule.

Family phone me one evening in 2013 as I often said that if they wanted to sell then please give me first refusal. The first 15 minutes of the phone call is them entering "full disclosure" mode listing the faults and the most serious was that it'll probably need gearbox number 3 soon as gearbox number 2 is starting to thud between changes. A price of £2000 was agreed and I sourced a used suspension pump for £250 which was fitted by @Minimad5 and myself. A much easier job than you'd imagine. 

Sadly, the following week I was made redundant from work meaning that I had to sell it.  I eventually sold it for £2500 off a driveway of an empty house using a throwaway sim card to a crazy Russian who planned to drive it back to Moscow.

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3 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

The 55mph speed today meant I got 33mpg!

The throttle linkage on my old E28 fell apart and the Heath Robinson arrangement I cobbled together at the side of the road gave me a maximum of 2500rpm and I got over 40mpg until I got it fixed. 
Between this and the Aldi you're not having much luck with these 'prestige' German autos, you sure letting the Saab go was a good idea?

Couldn't resist, sorry...

PXL_20240520_171600755.jpg.ab8659f24a572ade8eac92f6de822fda.jpg

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4 hours ago, Spiny Norman said:

sure letting the Saab go was a good idea?

Definitely not but I was getting a wee bit bored as I have had it for years. Plus I have the 75 to fall back on and my wife has the A4.

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7 hours ago, warren t claim said:

The ability an E60/61 has to consume money can't ever be underestimated.

To put this into perspective I'll tell you the story of mine.

It was bought new by my family in 2004 and spent the next 9 years and 193,000 miles on the motorway commuting between Wirral and Bristol, hardly an arduous task. All went well for the first 5 years and then the huge bills started. 120k the autobox needed replacing, the oil cooler blew, the heater stopped working, and HGF on one of the banks of cylinders. By the time it made it into my hands, there were over £20k in servicing and repair bills. The final straw was when the compressor for the rear air suspension failed due to BMW not adding the 15 minute task of removing rear undertray and cleaning out the shit to their 100,000 mile service schedule.

Family phone me one evening in 2013 as I often said that if they wanted to sell then please give me first refusal. The first 15 minutes of the phone call is them entering "full disclosure" mode listing the faults and the most serious was that it'll probably need gearbox number 3 soon as gearbox number 2 is starting to thud between changes. A price of £2000 was agreed and I sourced a used suspension pump for £250 which was fitted by @Minimad5 and myself. A much easier job than you'd imagine. 

Sadly, the following week I was made redundant from work meaning that I had to sell it.  I eventually sold it for £2500 off a driveway of an empty house using a throwaway sim card to a crazy Russian who planned to drive it back to Moscow.

It's a £1200 car, I'll not be spending anything like that.

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Hey @SiC do you happen to know if injectors on this engine need to be coded in? (Just in case it's that)

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3 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

Hey @SiC do you happen to know if injectors on this engine need to be coded in? (Just in case it's that)

No injector coding on multi-port injection petrol engines as far as I'm aware. 

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4 minutes ago, SiC said:

No injector coding on multi-port injection petrol engines as far as I'm aware. 

Good answer 😅

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It'll be a simple coil pack I'm sure, the m54 is a very solid engine, just keep an eye on the oil consumption. If it hasn't happened yet check whether the disa valve and PCV stuff under the intake has been replaced with quality (not febi Bilstein and Co) items and check that the air intake rubber elbow isn't torn.

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Like Schaefft has said, coil pack is my first stop too. In the family over the years we’ve put 500,000 miles on these engines. My mum and dad had two 3.0s, in a 330i and an X5 (still have the X5), I had a 2.5 in a 3 series compact and my mrs had a 2.2 in a Z3. The usual suspects on these engines are:

Oil leaks from just about everywhere

Coolant leaks from most places

Poor running due to vacuum leaks and failed coil packs

Oil consumption due to crankcase breathers (and poor piston ring design)

A three year delay between pressing the throttle and the engine actually doing anything (they’re just like that).

 

520is are fun though because you can drive them like the fat bastard in the merc does in the programme of your avatar and never be breaking the speed limit. And nice noises too!

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10 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

It's suiting me just grand. Floats over bumps, space, big armrest in the back, looks good and the interior trim quality on this particular one is pretty good for its age. 

The engine is very smooth although the gearbox is going a bit senile as it hunts  somewhat between 4th and 5th if accelerating gently . Solution is to accelerate less gently. However with the exception of the Saab 93, all the other autos I have  or have owned have had some kind of foible that I learned to drive around. 

The 55mph speed today meant I got 33mpg! 

 

That's one of the things I didn't like about mine the gearbox wasn't great. I don't know if it's because it's quite a heavy car with a not that powerful engine  it hunts around a bit?

If M539 restoration owned this if he found a misfire he'd immediately change all 6 coil packs, plugs, the injectors the rail, the fuel pump, all the lines and the air freshener. I think you'll probably get away with ebays second cheapest coil pack unless you can stick a couple down your trousers when you're at upullit.

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43 minutes ago, JakeT said:

520is are fun though because you can drive them like the fat bastard in the merc does in the programme of your avatar and never be breaking the speed limit. And nice noises too!

Haha that's exactly who I was thinking of 😂

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So as said above, I swapped around coil 6 and 1 but no codes came up, still misfiring thankfully though.

20240603_092549.jpg.684000e21f8d72123603f4f4b15401e6.jpg

So I flipped off the plug for each coil and it's now number 1 that makes no difference. Bosch item ordered from ECP.

All the E60s in Upullit are diesels so I ordered a new tank from ebay, £33 Topran item. I have used that brand before and they are good. Comes Thursday.

Hopefully be running reet by lunchtime!

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9 hours ago, warren t claim said:

The ability an E60/61 has to consume money can't ever be underestimated.

To put this into perspective I'll tell you the story of mine.

It was bought new by my family in 2004 and spent the next 9 years and 193,000 miles on the motorway commuting between Wirral and Bristol, hardly an arduous task. All went well for the first 5 years and then the huge bills started. 120k the autobox needed replacing, the oil cooler blew, the heater stopped working, and HGF on one of the banks of cylinders. By the time it made it into my hands, there were over £20k in servicing and repair bills. The final straw was when the compressor for the rear air suspension failed due to BMW not adding the 15 minute task of removing rear undertray and cleaning out the shit to their 100,000 mile service schedule.

Family phone me one evening in 2013 as I often said that if they wanted to sell then please give me first refusal. The first 15 minutes of the phone call is them entering "full disclosure" mode listing the faults and the most serious was that it'll probably need gearbox number 3 soon as gearbox number 2 is starting to thud between changes. A price of £2000 was agreed and I sourced a used suspension pump for £250 which was fitted by @Minimad5 and myself. A much easier job than you'd imagine. 

Sadly, the following week I was made redundant from work meaning that I had to sell it.  I eventually sold it for £2500 off a driveway of an empty house using a throwaway sim card to a crazy Russian who planned to drive it back to Moscow.

I had mine about six months, in that time I did multiple front suspension bushes, front wheel bearings, intake air hose replacement, stupid battery disconnect thing/airbag warning light, brake shields, rear brake light...

Then a protracted battle with gearbox slipping out of torque converter lockup. @Split_Pin that might be what yours is doing between 4th and 5th. More throttle = lockup disabled, so the issue 'goes away'. See my thread for the battle. In the end a change of seals on the bottom of the gearbox cured it - this involves new gearbox oil pan/filter thing, new gearbox oil, new seals. You could do it in an afternoon, possible but not fun without a lift. The seals aren't expensive but the gearbox oil and filter pan make it a bit spendy.

Ironically I got a recall letter from BMW about two weeks ago for (I think) the battery disconnect whatsit. I wonder what internal process led to issuing a recall for 2004 model year vehicles... I assume it's related to the fact that the airbags are disabled if the battery disconnect resistance gets too high, which they all do.

I would have let the new owner know but he was a bit of a twat when he came to buy it so tough shit.

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2 hours ago, Schaefft said:

disa valve

What are the symptoms for this failing? Could this be causing my Z4 lean codes and lack of bottom end power? It comes alive around 5k but I presumed around then it might be going open loop. 

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2 hours ago, Schaefft said:

PCV stuff under the intake has been replaced with quality (not febi Bilstein and Co)

Recommendations on what is good quality? I was going to replace mine with Febi as I did read they're OEM with the labels scrubbed out. 

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22 minutes ago, grogee said:

In the end a change of seals on the bottom of the gearbox cured it - this involves new gearbox oil pan/filter thing, new gearbox oil, new seals. You could do it in an afternoon, possible but not fun without a lift. 

I've read about this. Basically dropping the pan and then the mechatronics with the seals above that. Doesn't look difficult, just a pia to get the ATF level correct.

Mine shifts all the gears just it's not buttery smooth that I expect a computer controlled German box to me. Not hard thumps but I definitely can feel them.

I know if you let some of these issues to exist too long, it'll wreck the gearbox clutches. Do it sooner and have no damage. But I'm a bit weary fiddling with mine as it has no major issues apart from shifts not dead smooth. Definitely not touching mine until I have a few thousand miles on it and proves to be a keeper + reliable.

Tbh this 520i might just need the "filled for life" fluid changing. Probably never been changed. 

I'm not sure on compatibility but second hand boxes seem to only go for £200-500. Probably about the price of a clutch job fully fitted at a garage. 

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6 minutes ago, SiC said:

What are the symptoms for this failing? Could this be causing my Z4 lean codes and lack of bottom end power? It comes alive around 5k but I presumed around then it might be going open loop. 

Does the Disa not kick in until quite high revs anyway?  I've found on the smaller straight sixes they're quite peaky and only really get going once the vtec vanos kicks in. 

My 2.5 has a very consistent power delivery even when it was blowing blue smoke out the exhaust because of a blocked pcv.

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1 minute ago, SiC said:

I've read about this. Basically dropping the pan and then the mechatronics with the seals above that. Doesn't look difficult, just a pia to get the ATF level correct.

Mine shifts all the gears just it's not buttery smooth that I expect a computer controlled German box to me. Not hard thumps but I definitely can feel them.

I know if you let some of these issues to exist too long, it'll wreck the gearbox clutches. Do it sooner and have no damage. But I'm a bit weary fiddling with mine as it has no major issues apart from shifts not dead smooth.

Tbh this might just need the "filled for life" fluid changing.

I'm not sure on compatibility but second hand boxes seem to only go for £200-500. Probably about the price of a clutch job fully fitted at a garage. 

Fluid change is do-able and I've had good results on other cars just changing it to improve shift quality. You could even try some snake oil in case that helps for very little effort, but yes 'filled for life' is bollocks, mine was on at least its second lot and still needed doing, it stank of dead things.

I did try and change my box (see my thread) but I was thwarted by a stuck bolt in the bell housing so Plan B was to change the seals which worked, luckily.

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3 minutes ago, SiC said:

I've read about this. Basically dropping the pan and then the mechatronics with the seals above that. Doesn't look difficult, just a pia to get the ATF level correct.

Mine shifts all the gears just it's not buttery smooth that I expect a computer controlled German box to me. Not hard thumps but I definitely can feel them.

I know if you let some of these issues to exist too long, it'll wreck the gearbox clutches. Do it sooner and have no damage. But I'm a bit weary fiddling with mine as it has no major issues apart from shifts not dead smooth. Definitely not touching mine until I have a few thousand miles on it and proves to be a keeper + reliable.

Tbh this 520i might just need the "filled for life" fluid changing. Probably never been changed. 

I'm not sure on compatibility but second hand boxes seem to only go for £200-500. Probably about the price of a clutch job fully fitted at a garage. 

I think on a £1200 quid car you might change the fluid and filter on the gearbox but much past that it's not worth it . I had mine 10 years ago with relatively low miles and it did the same and what I read at the time was that engine and gearbox just aren't a great combo. 

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15 minutes ago, cort16 said:

I think on a £1200 quid car you might change the fluid and filter on the gearbox but much past that it's not worth it . I had mine 10 years ago with relatively low miles and it did the same and what I read at the time was that engine and gearbox just aren't a great combo. 

As a serial spender past the value of cars, it really depends how much someone likes it. I mean sensibly you'd chuck it away if it failed like that. But in my case with the 330i and maybe SP's, if you like the car and it's in decent shape otherwise, it maybe worth getting fixed. Not least that it was a £1200 car but to replace it even in today's falling market, will be a fair bit more for the same thing. 

I imagine the gearbox and engine were grafted together more because every other E6x had a 6hp19 as an auto (or a GM I believe in the USA sometimes) and the 2.2 was a carry over before the newer engines could be put in.

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1 hour ago, SiC said:

What are the symptoms for this failing? Could this be causing my Z4 lean codes and lack of bottom end power? It comes alive around 5k but I presumed around then it might be going open loop. 

 

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Recommendations on what is good quality? I was going to replace mine with Febi as I did read they're OEM with the labels scrubbed out. 

Having a power surge above 3.5k is usually an indication of the vanos unit needing to be rebuilt. However, that is probably the case on 99% of BMWs of this era (vanos provides torque lower down) and it's impossible to tell whether your issue would be caused by something different, especially that high up.

Febi Bilstein is mostly a parts distributor. Depending on the component they will have different suppliers. In many cases those suppliers are not at OEM quality, meaning there is no guarantee of getting a long lasting part. That chance is much higher with other parts manufacturers(Lemförder, Sachs, Beru, VDO, Behr etc.) and for very specific stuff BMW only (mass airflow sensors, cam and crank position sensors) as those really need to be 100% dependable. Naturally bmw doesn't produce them but things have proven to be "the correct way" of doing things over the last 2 decades.

The valve part of the PCV system could very well be one of them. I usually order stuff like this from a BMW parts dealer that has slightly more reasonable prices compared to dealers. The cost difference doesn't justify the time (or even worse the labor cost) of having to do it again in the next 10 years or so.

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Well after ECP supplied me with definitely* the right coil that was completely different, one Delphi item later and we have a smooth six once again.

20240603_124557.jpg.51c0cc5922c361568eec9c4e82205959.jpg

As soon as the header tank comes I can drive it again :)

This afternoon I will start a far more pleasant task of sanding and prepping the mirror I got at Upullit.

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Even after a £350 service I was not happy with the shifts on my 545. I bought an icarsoft and reset the adaptions.

It was like a different car. Some say not to do this - others say do it but only after a service. The icarsoft showed how the pressure changed in relation to the clutch packs.

You can get XHP updates so the box shifts quicker. For me the auto was the worst part of the car.

In relation to fuel economy I had mine up to 40 mpg through the 50 mph zones on the M6 / M56.

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14 minutes ago, Bren said:

Some say not to do this - others say do it but only after a service. The icarsoft showed how the pressure changed in relation to the clutch packs

How did the pressures and shifting hold up? I have read that resetting the adaptation causes it to use the default settings and over time it'll adapt back to the worn gearbox. Thus shifting goes back to how it was. Also put extra work on the clutch packs and kill them if they're starting to be on their way out.

Did you do the big convoluted procedure that you're supposed to do after resetting adaptations? Or just drive it?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-to-reset-relearn-e90-bmw-automatic-transmission-adaptations-zf6

I won't deny, I have thought about doing it to mine but I'm nervous that it'll break things or make things worse. Sometimes better to let sleeping dogs lie (as I've been told by numerous mechanics). 🙃

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I'm just going to drive it until it doesn't drive any more and then decide :)

Shiny vanity plate fitted too, which has lifted it.

20240603_150406.jpg.0a33d8ba8e587e131289db4aa5df30bf.jpg

I also cleaned out all the scuttle drains when it was apart as they were blocked with mud and tree detritus.

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I just found a picture of mine they're very similiar

14573735233_8310fb83ea_k.jpg

Black interior

14367025438_9a4e4ff553_k.jpg

Loads of this kind of shit

14366856048_190e0b2de7_k.jpg

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  • Split_Pin changed the title to BMW 5er E60 520i *Now identifies as a 6cyl again*
19 hours ago, SiC said:

This is the one I bought 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115940440832

Table at the bottom details the difference between the C110 and C420.

 I sold my C110 a few years ago to a mate who bought a R53. I think I sold it for £30 posted as the C110 were like £60 at the time. 

That C420 works fine on my Z4 and 330i

 

PXL_20240515_103853104.jpg

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PXL_20240515_105212500.jpg

PXL_20240528_145357014.jpg

I've just joined the cheap BMW club as well and currently have ABS and 4x4 warning lights on and this looks like the tool for the job! Much cheaper than the foxwell reader I was considering 

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3 hours ago, SiC said:

How did the pressures and shifting hold up? I have read that resetting the adaptation causes it to use the default settings and over time it'll adapt back to the worn gearbox. Thus shifting goes back to how it was. Also put extra work on the clutch packs and kill them if they're starting to be on their way out.

Did you do the big convoluted procedure that you're supposed to do after resetting adaptations? Or just drive it?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/how-to-reset-relearn-e90-bmw-automatic-transmission-adaptations-zf6

I won't deny, I have thought about doing it to mine but I'm nervous that it'll break things or make things worse. Sometimes better to let sleeping dogs lie (as I've been told by numerous mechanics). 🙃

I just did it. I compared values before and after - after was within spec.

My car was low mileage and had not been thrashed.

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