Classic car values

[danthecapriman]

Plus, everyone thinks themselves a Mike Brewer when it comes to selling their car/shit heap. Everyone thinks they can drive a hard bargain and come out smelling of roses quids in. 
The truth is they aren’t. They stick a stupidly unrealistic reserve price on and hold out for it. It’s never realised and they end up stuck with the car and won’t get their money back. Which leads on to - everyone also thinks they’re a most shrewd investor and know what they’re doing! Truthfully, you don’t buy an item at a time of high or increasing values then shit your pants when values plummet!

[SiC]

Two V12 E-type not hitting 20k 👀

I wonder what they would have gone for if a reserve didn't skew things. If they do start going between the 10k and 20k price point that isn't a basket case, I think I might have to do a big selling session of stuff and do a silly. 

[sierraman]

55 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

A pair of professionally fitted sills would probably cost at least £2k. Plus whatever other horrors are discovered.

Then you're left with a rubber bumper MG with an ugly front spoiler and a dodgy respray in mustard yellow.

It's probably the least desirable MGB you could find. A couple of years ago it might have made £2k...

Most stuff at auction seems to have a steep reserve now. I think it's the idea that folks will get into a mad bidding frenzy and drive prices above the sort of money they'd fetch in a private sale. Plus having to factor in the auction costs as well.

I confess I consider auctions more of a novelty. It strikes me as a shit way to sell a car both as a seller and a buyer in an era of unlimited, cheap advertising space online...

As ever a crap one isn’t worth buying. Somebody will have bought it and took it home, discovered that’s its total crap and that to sort it out properly will cost a ransom. 😂

[SiC]

It's the perfect starter project for someone. Panels and parts are cheap. I hear Lidl do a MIG welder for under £100 now too. 

[D.E]

2 hours ago, IronStar said:

Your car prices and what writes a car off / makes it a parts car will never cease to amaze me, even after 10+ years on UK car forums. I’d have 2 at those prices, provided that I can drive them home, thank you very much. 😄

Yeah, I really like these old British sports cars, but they're all thousands of euros here for rubbish USA imports that had who knows how many dodgy patchwork and resprays over the years.

This one, for example. 3900 for a rubber bumper B that will obviously consume thousands of euros and hours more.

https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/auto-s/mg/m2260842112-mg-b-mgb-bj-1977

[chadders]

1 hour ago, captain_70s said:

A pair of professionally fitted sills would probably cost at least £2k. Plus whatever other horrors are discovered.

Then you're left with a rubber bumper MG with an ugly front spoiler and a dodgy respray in mustard yellow.

It's probably the least desirable MGB you could find. A couple of years ago it might have made £2k...

Most stuff at auction seems to have a steep reserve now. I think it's the idea that folks will get into a mad bidding frenzy and drive prices above the sort of money they'd fetch in a private sale. Plus having to factor in the auction costs as well.

I confess I consider auctions more of a novelty. It strikes me as a shit way to sell a car both as a seller and a buyer in an era of unlimited, cheap advertising space online...

My sills cost the best part of £5k 4 years ago and it took me years to find someone who'd do it. The MGOC were quoting £3k+ a side if I remember correctly.

[IronStar]

32 minutes ago, D.E said:

Yeah, I really like these old British sports cars, but they're all thousands of euros here for rubbish USA imports that had who knows how many dodgy patchwork and resprays over the years.

This one, for example. 3900 for a rubber bumper B that will obviously consume thousands of euros and hours more.

https://www.marktplaats.nl/v/auto-s/mg/m2260842112-mg-b-mgb-bj-1977

Exactly this. If I saw one for 800 or 1000 in condition like that locally, even RHD and foreign-plated but with import paperwork, I'd be calling the seller to take the ad down immediately, and already be on the way with a tow truck to bite their hand off before they change their mind.

[grogee]

Where are the people who buy things like this? 

If you remember it when it was new, you're too old to drive it now. 

If you're older and just remember them for some reason, it's a pretty miserable way to travel. A bicycle is less effort in some situations. 

I get they are history and god knows I'm doing my bit to preserve old cars but I've never met anyone who likes this sort of thing. And I can't remember the last time I saw something like this on the road. 

[SiC]

12 minutes ago, grogee said:

Where are the people who buy things like this? 

👋 I would buy it. 

Just not at that price as I'm a skin flint when coming to parting money to buy a car...

I imagine there are enough people who think "that looks like a load of fun laughs" willing to part money for something like that and the market isn't exactly flooded with pre-war cars either. 

Ask me 10-15 years ago and I'd said no way would I want that piece of junk. Just as I've aged and tried different cars, my interest changes which goes along with my want to try something new. 

The interest is not only the history but the pure visceral experience of old stuff and the technical challenge of learning to drive such a very different machine. 

[Six-cylinder]

I rather like that.

Like @SiC a few years ago I would have had no interest in owning that. With a car like that it is about the history, experience, trying something different and the challenge of driving it smoothly.

After a few years thinking about it I pulled the trigger and bought a 1933 Rolls Royce 20/25 two years ago. I sold my BMW M3 Evo to get a car that is only comfortable to cruise at 50 mph.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I have no connection to anything like that either, but I would like to own one.

[lesapandre]

2 hours ago, grogee said:

Where are the people who buy things like this? 

If you remember it when it was new, you're too old to drive it now. 

If you're older and just remember them for some reason, it's a pretty miserable way to travel. A bicycle is less effort in some situations. 

I get they are history and god knows I'm doing my bit to preserve old cars but I've never met anyone who likes this sort of thing. And I can't remember the last time I saw something like this on the road. 

Some of the lighter 20's and 30's cars do go quite well - particularly with the lightweight bodies - and are very 'clubbable' and event eligible. There is a whole infrastructure separate to the mainstream classic car movement. There will always be a market for these cars.

That Riley is a 4-cylinder with hemispherical combustion chambers and twin cams. Quite something in it's day. Probably 1.1 litres. Very light with it's fabric body. Riley 9 hooning:

Some of the stodgy over-bodied cars of the late 30's are much more mundane - and pretty slow tho.

These were on the way back from the Montlhéry race circuit last year in convoy with at least 20 other cars of a similar ilk. 

They bought the French town I was in to a standstill - it all looked enormous fun.

These cars were really being used and went off up the hill at some speed on their way back to the UK.

[AnthonyG]

Brightwells have sold off the main building that housed the offices and auction room (where they used to sell antique furniture, paintings etc).

So now they just have some big sheds and the old auction ring shed for the normal part-ex/ex plod vehicle sales. But the classics don’t go through that ring either. So all you can do is go and view the cars and then prat around with online bidding on a completely different day. It’s all arse-over-tit and a lot of the local classic car folk, who used to go to the sale and often bid on something if it looked cheap/good value/interesting, don’t bother. So they have kind of fucked themselves here.

By all means allow online bidding but do it at the same time as the physical bidding, everybody else - including a pretty basic place in Ledbury, which normally sells tractors and plant but has the odd vintage sale - can do it so fuck knows why they can’t. With these sorts of sale rates they might as well pack the classic sales in, and I suspect they may well do so.

As an example of the value of being physically able to bid/buy something on the day of viewing, I would have been very tempted by the white Minor convertible that was bid up to £2k had I been there (assuming it wasn’t a shitheap).

The other thing you can do when everybody’s actually there, or available via a quick phone call, is come to an arrangement with the seller (via the auction house) on a mutually acceptable ‘near reserve’ price there and then. One of the vehicles (Lot 62, the Jowett Javelin) looked like it didn’t sell for the sake of £44 or so, which is pretty ridiculous on a vehicle with an estimate of 2.5 to 4k - I’m assuming here that the reserve was the bottom figure of the estimate, if the reserve is being set at the top end of the estimate I think someone needs to do some rethinking…

[Mrcento]

5 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Plus, everyone thinks themselves a Mike Brewer when it comes to selling their car/shit heap. Everyone thinks they can drive a hard bargain and come out smelling of roses quids in. 
The truth is they aren’t. They stick a stupidly unrealistic reserve price on and hold out for it. It’s never realised and they end up stuck with the car and won’t get their money back.

I'm having exactly this at the moment, car i really fancy is up for sale locally, has been for over a month, I just cannot do a deal with the seller. He's being a stubborn arse and is in full 'I will not lose a single penny on this and would rather let it rot if i don't get what i think it owes me,' mode. Because that's really going to get him his money back.....

It's not my fault he's either overpaid for something with faults, or got it at an ok price, ran it for a year or so, it developed said faults, and is now worth less than he paid for it. That's just how things work....

It now needs money spending on it ASAP and likely more if he keeps running as is, which he'll then need to recover on top of what he already wants for it and can't sell it for,  but he wont budge an inch, despite saying he is, and i quote 'open to offers'. It's full asking price or fuck off. Offers eh?

I'm offering him a ridiculously good price well over market that he'll be fuming he didn't take in about a months time when the realisation hits he's balls deep into another grand he won't ever see back, or selling for nearer half what i'd offered as a totally broken entity, all because he was too fucking stubborn to cut his losses and take an offer within 300 of asking price, which is probably 500 over what it's actually worth..... Absolutely baffling.

[Llessur]

On 08/05/2025 at 02:12, chadders said:

Both my sons see cars as white goods.

I suspect much of this is due to the absolute homogenisation of new cars that we've seen over the last decade or so. I've had a lifelong interest in cars, old and new, but I couldn't tell a Hyundai from a Renault these days. The distinct identifies which used to seperate marques - exterior/interior styling, performance, equipment levels, special editions etc - have all but gone in the name of safety, cost cutting and general apathy towards anything different design-wise. If you'd blindfolded me back in 1998 and put me inside a Renault, when it was removed I could have told you within one second that I was sitting inside a Renault. Move me to a BMW, Ford or pretty much anything else and the outcome would have been exactly the same. Nowadays I doubt I'd be able to tell the interior of a BMW from a Kia. Everything's as boring and as identikit as all fuck.

Same with engines and trim. You had the 2.0 Granada LX? Maybe next time you'd be able to afford the 2.4 Ghia X. Had a really good year? Maybe the 2.9 V6 Cossy. All the neighbours would know how well you're doing - that company car culture of the 80s and 90s made cars a status symbol and every Tom, Dick and Harry aspired to drive something better. Kids would talk in playgrounds about the new car their dad just got, trying to trump each other on engine size and trim level. Even in primary school most of my friends knew exactly what their family car was and roughly where it sat in the hierarchy.

Now what? Getting excited because your dad's just leased a new 1.0 Polo which looks, feels, drives and sounds pretty much exactly the same as every other bit of automotive tofu on the roads? Having an argument in the playground over who's mum's got the most ULEZ-compliant car? Probably not.

Same with first cars, my sixth form car park back in 1997 was amazing - heaps of every description littering the place. Astras, Fiestas, BXs, Montegos, 205s. If it wasn't the SRi/GTi a quick trip to the breakers on a Saturday morning would at least make it look a bit like one. Some vaguely exciting cars were in reach, even as a 17 year old. One friend had a 405 SRi, another had a very ropey BX GTi, another had an Alfa Arna (heap of shit obviously, but at least it was something different). The 10 year old insurance-friendly fodder that most 17 year olds end up in nowadays just merges into one vague grey entity in my opinion - is it a Fiesta, a Corsa, an Accent? Who can tell?

No wonder younger generations aren't catching the bug - what is there for them to aspire to own? Even if there are still a few fruitier models out there, most probably wouldn't want the higher fuel, tax and congestion type charges associated with it and would opt for an e-Golf or griege 1.5 SUV box instead. That's if they want to run a car at all on top of their crippling student loans, mortgages and general adversion to anything analogue. 

I know that the classic car world is always evolving and we've seen a general trend away from pre-1970s cars as those who have emotional attachments to them dwindle in number, but I do worry that in about 20-30 years time the whole concept of car as a hobby will be largely a thing of the past.  A bit like valve radios or stationary engines - very few people remember why they're great or how they work. Anyone born after the mid-2000s won't feel a longing for anything their parents drove when they were kids, or the cars that were just out of reach when they learned to drive, or the company cars they might have been awarded after a few years of hard work. 

Kids see cars as white goods because they have become as dull as white goods so they've grown up with a completely different relationship to cars than we did. I feel sad my kids won't have the same experience.

Edit: I've just re-read the above and realised I've finally become my dad.

[EyesWeldedShut]

7 hours ago, Mrcento said:

Absolutely baffling.

Plenty more fish in the sea?
I'd been sniffing around for ages for an R170 SLK that wasn't totally hanging and I'd found a couple of possibilities that were on the near-reasonable price scale. Couldn't get the sellers to come down to what I would call reasonable as they're seeing all the others on sale for silly money* and think that's what they're actually selling for.
Bought one two weeks ago - a lot of the ones (private sellers not dealers) are still available with no change to the listed prices (some since February)

*tbf there are some near-concours ones advertised but I'm looking for something that's good for maybe a few years but would not break the bank if it had a cataclysmic MOT failure or FTP
 

[sierraman]

4 hours ago, Llessur said:

I suspect much of this is due to the absolute homogenisation of new cars that we've seen over the last decade or so. I've had a lifelong interest in cars, old and new, but I couldn't tell a Hyundai from a Renault these days. The distinct identifies which used to seperate marques - exterior/interior styling, performance, equipment levels, special editions etc - have all but gone in the name of safety, cost cutting and general apathy towards anything different design-wise. If you'd blindfolded me back in 1998 and put me inside a Renault, when it was removed I could have told you within one second that I was sitting inside a Renault. Move me to a BMW, Ford or pretty much anything else and the outcome would have been exactly the same. Nowadays I doubt I'd be able to tell the interior of a BMW from a Kia. Everything's as boring and as identikit as all fuck.

Same with engines and trim. You had the 2.0 Granada LX? Maybe next time you'd be able to afford the 2.4 Ghia X. Had a really good year? Maybe the 2.9 V6 Cossy. All the neighbours would know how well you're doing - that company car culture of the 80s and 90s made cars a status symbol and every Tom, Dick and Harry aspired to drive something better. Kids would talk in playgrounds about the new car their dad just got, trying to trump each other on engine size and trim level. Even in primary school most of my friends knew exactly what their family car was and roughly where it sat in the hierarchy.

Now what? Getting excited because your dad's just leased a new 1.0 Polo which looks, feels, drives and sounds pretty much exactly the same as every other bit of automotive tofu on the roads? No. Having an argument in the playground over who's mum's got the most ULEZ-compliant car? Probably not.

Same with first cars, my sixth form car park back in 1997 was amazing - heaps of every description littering the place. Astras, Fiestas, BXs, Montegos, 205s. If it wasn't the SRi/GTi a quick trip to the breakers on a Saturday morning would at least make it look a bit like one. Some vaguely exciting cars were in reach, even as a 17 year old. One friend had a 405 SRi, another had a very ropey BX GTi, another had an Alfa Arna (heap of shit obviously, but at least it was something different). The 10 year old insurance-friendly fodder that most 17 year olds end up in nowadays just merge into one vague grey entity in my opinion - is it a Fiesta, a Corsa, an Accent? Who can tell?

No wonder younger generations aren't catching the bug - what is there for them to aspire to own? Even if there are still a few fruitier models out there, most probably wouldn't want the higher fuel, tax and congestion type charges associated with it and would opt for an e-Golf or griege 1.5 SUV box instead. That's if they want to run a car at all on top of their crippling student loans, mortgages and general adversion to anything analogue. 

I know that the classic car world is always evolving and we've seen a general trend away from pre-1970s cars as those who have emotional attachments to them dwindle in number, but I do worry that in about 20-30 years time the whole concept of car as a hobby will be largely a thing of the past.  A bit like valve radios or stationary engines - very few people remember why they're great or how they work. Anyone born after the mid-2000s won't feel a longing for anything their parents drove when they were kids, or the cars that were just out of reach when they learned to drive, or the company cars they might have been awarded after a few years of hard work. 

Kids see cars as white goods because they have become as dull as white goods so they've grown up with a completely different relationship to cars than we did. I feel sad my kids won't have the same experience.

Edit: I've just re-read the above and realised I've finally become my dad.

Yeah I remember the absolute shame and embarrassment when my dad got an Astra 1.4 Merit. 😂

[Snipes]

I've been seeing a lot of MGBs while browsing the usual classic car sites. I was never really into them, but there are 10 year old restorations and even heritage bodied cars for well below £8k.

[Snipes]

Something else is mk2 Golfs. Seen a few very clean GLs, Drivers and 8v GTIs for a lot less than I remembered from 10 years ago. 

[N Dentressangle]

Judging by those Brightwells results, I'd say there are some ambitious estimates here:

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/92fee72946947708deb6a3fde5bfbd99/1f1638c9faeb7c2641b7b1e9c67628d0/the-moretonhampstead-motor-museum-dispersal-auction

Anything you fancy?

[sierraman]

58 minutes ago, Sir Snipes said:

I've been seeing a lot of MGBs while browsing the usual classic car sites. I was never really into them, but there are 10 year old restorations and even heritage bodied cars for well below £8k.

They’re not my cup of tea but I do get it, a mate of mine is trying to get his TR7 on the road, got it running after the fuel pump went, just needs the ignition and running gear getting going again. The TR7 it’s fair to say is not a very good car, but I can see the appeal in how simple it is to piss about with.  But when you look at them even anything less than good isn’t worth your time and money. I don’t know exactly what a good one is worth but it can’t be more than £6-8k for an exceptionally good 2.0 DHC. A £1,500 one in boxes of bits that may or may not all be there and wanting welding  can’t be an easy sell. 

[SiC]

5 minutes ago, N Dentressangle said:

Judging by those Brightwells results, I'd say there are some ambitious estimates here:

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/92fee72946947708deb6a3fde5bfbd99/1f1638c9faeb7c2641b7b1e9c67628d0/the-moretonhampstead-motor-museum-dispersal-auction

Anything you fancy?

The low mileage 1100...

I imagine those cars won't be having reserves considering he's intended to close up shop. That's also not all the cars they had in the collection and presumably many have sold already. Like the Austin 7 they had. 

Did you ever get a chance to see the museum before it closed? 

(I've got pictures of my last two times floating around here)

[N Dentressangle]

6 minutes ago, SiC said:

The low mileage 1100...

I imagine those cars won't be having reserves considering he's intended to close up shop. That's also not all the cars they had in the collection and presumably many have sold already. Like the Austin 7 they had. 

Did you ever get a chance to see the museum before it closed? 

(I've got pictures of my last two times floating around here)

Knew you'd fancy that 1100 🤣

Never visited. Rather like the crap Escort estate:

Can't see this tatty P6 with dodgy brakes making much:

[lesapandre]

Yes if they are liquidating the museum - without reserve would make sense - otherwise what are they going to do with the unsold cars - have another auction?

The estimates look a bit minty given the cars are ostensibly static non-runners (doncha love that phrase 'recommisioning' which could mean any amount of work).

Interesting to see what happens- but is a Standard 10 really worth that (even with "rally modifications")

Apparently "no brakes no clutch moves OK" 😂.

[SiC]

Just now, N Dentressangle said:

Knew you'd fancy that 1100 🤣

Never visited. Rather like the crap Escort estate:

Can't see this tatty P6 with dodgy brakes making much:

Have you registered? I just applied to this morning but I imagine might be too late to get accepted for the auction. 

The A35 I'd be tempted with too. 

[N Dentressangle]

2 minutes ago, SiC said:

Have you registered? I just applied to this morning but I imagine might be too late to get accepted for the auction. 

The A35 I'd be tempted with too. 

Just registered.

Let's hope I don't have any finger spasms 😉

[SiC]

17 minutes ago, SiC said:

low mileage 1100

It's done like 15k genuine miles. 2 door too. Base spec 70s mini style Speedo setup.

(First time I went was through COVID...)

There is a lot that either he must be keeping or have sold already. Like this A7 and Morris.

This was the sign on reception.

The last time I went, I went with a colleague mate. He's much more into bikes than me (I'm not at all...) and was fascinated by this genuine Dakar raced Honda V-Twin. He put his name down and did have a callback but didn't follow up as he had too many other bike projects on the go. I think he kinda regrets not - at least to find the price.

[N Dentressangle]

This old beast should go for very little I'd have thought:

[SiC]

9 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

The estimates look a bit minty given the cars are ostensibly static non-runners (doncha love that phrase 'recommisioning' which could mean any amount of work).

TBF they are all in good condition while stored in a airy and dry state. So yes need recommissioning but most don't need any bodywork to fix rust.

[N Dentressangle]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

It's done like 15k genuine miles. 2 door too. 

Plus a number plate that nearly reads 'FART'