Cars that lost the plot

[ETCHY]

Audi.

Irrespective of model, they've gone imo from being a cool, quality, innovative  brand that were just that bit different to Merc & BMW to being the face of everything i hate about modern cars & twat drivers.

They sell a lot of cars but their image for me has totally gone down tbe pan.

[eddyramrod]

My heart goes out to anyone who needs a van in America.  For decades they could have a Dodge Tradesman or Ford Econoline; older designs admittedly but huge, and available as a V8 auto which is, let's face it, kind of an American trademark.  Then Mopar joined with Mercedes and new Dodge vans became four-pot diesel Sprinters (that burst of misnaming always makes me laugh ironically).  Ford, meanwhile, imported the biggest, RWD, version of the Turkish-built Transit, although at least they tried a bit, with a V6 auto.  Now Mopar is part of Fiat so the new Dodge Ram van is the Ducato.  Diesel, four pots, and FWD!  I mean, what has the poor American working man done to deserve that?

Anyone noticed that the big Vauxhall vans are now also Ducatos?  No surprise really, as it's the Peugeot offering and they now own Vauxhall.  I wonder if the Opels are still the Renault Master, like Vauxhall used to be, or did Opel go to Peugeot at the same time?

[artdjones]

7 minutes ago, eddyramrod said:

My heart goes out to anyone who needs a van in America.  For decades they could have a Dodge Tradesman or Ford Econoline; older designs admittedly but huge, and available as a V8 auto which is, let's face it, kind of an American trademark.  Then Mopar joined with Mercedes and new Dodge vans became four-pot diesel Sprinters (that burst of misnaming always makes me laugh ironically).  Ford, meanwhile, imported the biggest, RWD, version of the Turkish-built Transit, although at least they tried a bit, with a V6 auto.  Now Mopar is part of Fiat so the new Dodge Ram van is the Ducato.  Diesel, four pots, and FWD!  I mean, what has the poor American working man done to deserve that?

Anyone noticed that the big Vauxhall vans are now also Ducatos?  No surprise really, as it's the Peugeot offering and they now own Vauxhall.  I wonder if the Opels are still the Renault Master, like Vauxhall used to be, or did Opel go to Peugeot at the same time?

Afraid so.

[lesapandre]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:03 PM, EyesWeldedShut said:

I know what you mean - they're chasing the G-Wagen type market methinks - plus they have the copyright on the Defender name so drag that back into play - have a look at the awful article I linked above for the sort of spin the fanbois are putting on the two types - cringey.
Actually I rather liked* the 'self deploying tow bar' that Mr Weirdo was demonstrating on You Tube - great bit of kit but, a bit like cheekily lowering my old BX then raising it once the towball was under the towbar, you still got to get out and plug in the electrics and stow the jockey wheel.
The backroom boys probably thought this was a whizzo sales pitch idea - I just see something that's going to go wrong in what? 8 or 9 years time? Overcomplicated and expensive.

8 or 9 years...optimistic ? Give it 5.  Defender - of course the Defender nameplate is relatively recent - the original Land Rovers were...'Land Rovers'. See quite a lot here in London - one crashed into a school killing several recently. 

[horriblemercedes]

23 hours ago, eddyramrod said:

My heart goes out to anyone who needs a van in America.  For decades they could have a Dodge Tradesman or Ford Econoline; older designs admittedly but huge, and available as a V8 auto which is, let's face it, kind of an American trademark.  Then Mopar joined with Mercedes and new Dodge vans became four-pot diesel Sprinters (that burst of misnaming always makes me laugh ironically).  Ford, meanwhile, imported the biggest, RWD, version of the Turkish-built Transit, although at least they tried a bit, with a V6 auto.  Now Mopar is part of Fiat so the new Dodge Ram van is the Ducato.  Diesel, four pots, and FWD!  I mean, what has the poor American working man done to deserve that?

Anyone noticed that the big Vauxhall vans are now also Ducatos?  No surprise really, as it's the Peugeot offering and they now own Vauxhall.  I wonder if the Opels are still the Renault Master, like Vauxhall used to be, or did Opel go to Peugeot at the same time?

Vauxhall is just Opel UK so whatever Opel offers, we get here as a Vauxhall

[eddyramrod]

26 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

Vauxhall is just Opel UK so whatever Opel offers, we get here as a Vauxhall

Sad but true, for so many years now.  I didn't know if Opel had been part of the Peugeot buyout, so thank you.

[sierraman]

Does make you wonder how long they’ll continue to call them Vauxhall, whether they’ll just call them all Opel. 

[horriblemercedes]

5 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Does make you wonder how long they’ll continue to call them Vauxhall, whether they’ll just call them all Opel. 

I think a change is unlikely any time soon. It costs very little to badge them separately and the UK is the most successful market for Opel/Vauxhall so it's probably not worth messing with it.

[martc]

51 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

I think a change is unlikely any time soon. It costs very little to badge them separately and the UK is the most successful market for Opel/Vauxhall so it's probably not worth messing with it.

I agree, UK 'Opels' being RHD have to be made separately from the run of the mill LHD ones so having to add a different badge is no great shakes and a chrome griffen will cost as much as a chrome lightning bolt to make.

What surprises me is in Ireland (and Cyprus and Malta) they are badged as Opels - now that must be more of a bind considering the number of RHD ones destined for the UK vs the other much smaller RHD destination, it's not as if Vauxhall aren't known there.

[mk2_craig]

I think the "when will they kill off Vauxhall?" conversation has been brought up on here, off and on, almost since the forum was first created. 

[horriblemercedes]

15 minutes ago, martc said:

I agree, UK 'Opels' being RHD have to be made separately from the run of the mill LHD ones so having to add a different badge is no great shakes and a chrome griffen will cost as much as a chrome lightning bolt to make.

What surprises me is in Ireland (and Cyprus and Malta) they are badged as Opels - now that must be more of a bind considering the number of RHD ones destined for the UK vs the other much smaller RHD destination, it's not as if Vauxhall aren't known there.

They'll all still be made on the same line - the badging will just be linked to build sheet or VIN or whatever the system they use is

[warren t claim]

17 hours ago, martc said:

I agree, UK 'Opels' being RHD have to be made separately from the run of the mill LHD ones so having to add a different badge is no great shakes and a chrome griffen will cost as much as a chrome lightning bolt to make.

What surprises me is in Ireland (and Cyprus and Malta) they are badged as Opels - now that must be more of a bind considering the number of RHD ones destined for the UK vs the other much smaller RHD destination, it's not as if Vauxhall aren't known there.

Humza Useless promises that an independent Scotland would see Vauxhalls rebranded as Opels north of the border.

Can the Aussies still buy a Holden badged car?

[Metal Guru]

21 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

Humza Useless promises that an independent Scotland would see Vauxhalls rebranded as Opels north of the border.

Can the Aussies still buy a Holden badged car?

Are Scottish independence supporters so narrow minded (not to mention stupid), that they would not buy a Vauxhall because it’s “English”, but would happily buy the same car badged as an Opel?

[DavieW]

2 hours ago, Metal Guru said:

Are Scottish independence supporters so narrow minded (not to mention stupid), that they would not buy a Vauxhall because it’s “English”, but would happily buy the same car badged as an Opel?

Yup. They didn't want to call the Covid vaccine Oxford Zenica because of the English connotation. 

[New POD]

7 hours ago, mk2_craig said:

I think the "when will they kill off Vauxhall?" conversation has been brought up on here, off and on, almost since the forum was first created. 

As has the fact that I engaged in a swap with a Norwegian I'd never met, of all the mk2 cavalier Sri badges on my old car, in return for a set of opel ascona C GTi badges. 

I wasn't sure I'd receive a package in return, but the guy was true to his word.  

[somewhatfoolish]

7 hours ago, warren t claim said:

Humza Useless promises that an independent Scotland would see Vauxhalls rebranded as Opels north of the border.

Can the Aussies still buy a Holden badged car?

Not that I disbelieve he could be that parochial, is there an article stating that?

[warren t claim]

12 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Not that I disbelieve he could be that parochial, is there an article stating that?

Nothing whatsoever. It was me trying to be funny.

[Rightnider]

On 08/09/2023 at 17:21, TheOtherStu said:

Chevy haven't turned their Camaro into an EV, neither have Dodge changed the Charger into an SUV.

You can’t deny that “Charger” would be the best name from the muscle car era to use for an EV though. 😀

[martc]

13 hours ago, warren t claim said:

Humza Useless promises that an independent Scotland would see Vauxhalls rebranded as Opels north of the border.

Can the Aussies still buy a Holden badged car?

I got the joke, very good, well done but knowing the rhetoric of some of the Scottish Independants it does have a ring of the truth.

But can Aussies still buy a Holden badged car? I don't think so, if you go to https://www.holden.com.au/ it refers only to servicing your current Holden, they're not going to sell you a new one.

 

[cort1977]

Holden shut down in 2020.  Stellantis only bought the European GM operations and Holden didn't take many of those models anyway, mostly Korean stuff at the end.  Sad given the history but that's business.

Stellantis trucks, full size Dodge Rams, are now being sold in Australia ironically, as are Chevrolet Silverados and F150s.

[MorrisItalSLX]

Holden is dead and buried.

We get some Stellantis brands in Australia, mostly the former PSA and Fiat/Chrysler cars.

[leakingstrut]

I know this is an unpopular option but I don’t think Landrover have lost the plot. Personally I would have preferred if they had kept their utilitarian focus, but their boat was already turning towards luxury by the 90’s if not 80’s, so I don’t know why anybody is surprised the new defender is a luxury SUV not a bare bones utilitarian thing. If they hadn’t moved to a luxury / lifestyle focus I can’t have seen them staying in business - being relatively small and unable to build a reliable vehicle to save themselves.

I don’t particularly understand the dogma of it not being body on frame or live axle and therefore shit - it’s very capable off road, and it’s really good to drive on the road. Of course it’s bigger - everything is. Yeah, it’s refined. I’ve done enough miles in an old Defender not to mind that. 

There are plenty of good reasons to hate it - it’s a high end JLR product so it’s expensive and will break. It’s a luxury SUV which means it is an attractive nuisance to people with too much money who never go off road. But I don’t think it’s the wrong replacement for the Defender because that’s basically impossible to build in this day and age if you want people to actually buy it. Look at the Grenadier - I wouldn’t say that is any less compromised than the Defender. It hits more “proper off roader” tick boxes but I wouldn’t rate one over the other as a hardcore off road or expedition vehicle - both are capable, expensive toys. 

My main complaint about it off road is that it’s so capable that it’s just boring. I used to work at a Land Rover experience center and myself and a lot of other instructors preferred the Disco Sport and Evoque - they were capable but no low range / air suspension / locking rear diff meant they required a bit more driver input.

My second complaint is that new one is only low range car that doesn’t have a dedicated terrain response dial, which seems stupid on their most off road focussed vehicle. My third complaint is that I’d like one but even if I had the money I still wouldn’t want to spend the asking price, but that’s all new cars! 

We had a few long steep grassy hills, when we saw a bunch of skid marks on them we knew some old defenders had been out. We didn’t have them anymore by the time I started there but people brought them to do LANTRA training. Even somebody who had only driven a fiesta before would get a stock Evoque up there every time. 

The old defender was great, but it was also very old hat. The same things that make it good are the same things that mean an Evoque would beat it off road until the Evoque ran out of ground clearance. There is a good reason the new one is nothing like the old one, and it’s not like you can’t get an old one in good nick for a lot less than a new one if you need it that badly. Or be sensible and just buy a pickup. 

[warren t claim]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:47 PM, martc said:

I got the joke, very good, well done but knowing the rhetoric of some of the Scottish Independants it does have a ring of the truth.

But can Aussies still buy a Holden badged car? I don't think so, if you go to https://www.holden.com.au/ it refers only to servicing your current Holden, they're not going to sell you a new one.

 

 

[Rod/b]

This really is the “old men whining” thread isn’t it? 

[cort1977]

That's what I come here for 🙂