ULEZ nonsense.. Someone make it make sense..

[EyesWeldedShut]

2 minutes ago, uk_senator said:

Is there a map of the camera locations, or have you just noticed them? I think I`m pretty much landlocked where I am, despite living not far from you..

TfL run bus lane enforcement cameras that use ANPR, some of these are mounted on the actual buses themselves. (Ask my brother in law, he's got a lovely picture of his motorbike from one  ).
No reason that they couldn't just pipe the data from those cameras into the LEZ system too? (just sayin')

I've setup the TfL account system for our vehicles/sprogs just in case we ever stray over the border - seems easiest rather tha sweat out where the new cameras are likely to be at.

[busmansholiday]

22 hours ago, sierraman said:

I’ve been reliably told that Sheffield will extend the CAZ to cars in 18 months to 2 years. It will just kill off the town centre, they think in their heads at the council that the bus service is an acceptable alternative. It’s already in place for vans etc, the tradesmen who I completely agree with, just add a £100 loading on to any city centre work. Why should they pay to change their van?

Yet the same bunch of wankers have banned buses from the centre of the town making shopping anywhere near the Town Hall area almost impossible. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

13 hours ago, sheffcortinacentre said:

Perhaps someone can tell me why my 02 falcon Ute (LPG only no petrol system fitted at factory) is exempt from bath ulez but non of the others, but my mates 91 diesel P100 is exempt from them all???

The London LEZ specifically exempts light commercials  so he's likely falling into that category - I'd assume that the others are following suit. I got screwed by uprating my 3.5 tonner but figure that the odd LEZ charge is better than VOSA getting all medieval on axle loadings when I'm miles from home  

[uk_senator]

3 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

TfL run bus lane enforcement cameras that use ANPR, some of these are mounted on the actual buses themselves. (Ask my brother in law, he's got a lovely picture of his motorbike from one  ).
No reason that they couldn't just pipe the data from those cameras into the LEZ system too? (just sayin')

I've setup the TfL account system for our vehicles/sprogs just in case we ever stray over the border - seems easiest rather tha sweat out where the new cameras are likely to be at.

Easier, but costly.. 

Believe me, if I`m paying £12.50 a day to enter a "zone", I wont just be popping 1/4 of a mile down the road, I`ll make very sure I get my moneys worth...

[busmansholiday]

13 hours ago, sheffcortinacentre said:

Perhaps someone can tell me why my 02 falcon Ute (LPG only no petrol system fitted at factory) is exempt from bath ulez but non of the others, but my mates 91 diesel P100 is exempt from them all???

Also there's been a reduced to 60 mph  section  "for better air quality " between j 33-34 on the M1 for months yet Mon eve as it was down to 2 from 4 lanes to sweep the carriage way, the limit had been removed & all the matrix signs where blank?????

Two speed cameras each way, just slow down for them then ignore like the rest of the locals do.

[somewhatfoolish]

45 minutes ago, uk_senator said:

Sorry, my maths is shite.. from 300 up to 1000, whatever percentage that is. I have no reason to doubt his figures, they had the same jump when the last inner ULEZ was introduced a couple of years back.

I`ve taken pictures of 10`s of thousands of London's old cars in the last 15 years, & spoken to many owners, as well as being in & around the motor trade for decades, I can tell you, LOADS of OAP`s people scrap cars we want ALL the time assuming they`re worthless, because they go by the values of old cars of 30 years ago, I`ve seen it SO many times.

There's a market opportunity; leaflet all old shite in the zone with "I'll buy your non-ULEZ old shite", price match the scrappers, sell it all outside the zone for £££ and retire 18 months later as a millionaire.

[uk_senator]

16 hours ago, willswitchengage said:

Even though they are grey imports the Euro emission standard is used pretty much everywhere in the world as a benchmark other than North America which has its own standards. E.g. Japanese trucks market themselves in Asia as complying themselves as EuroX compliant.

Puzzling though as presumably those T2s or whatever they're called won't have a European type approval I would have thought so is the onus on the importer to say they have airbags, ABS, are emissions compliant etc? 

Weirdly I reckon the only mass market vehicles that you couldn't sell in Europe are those from the USA as they don't have amber rear indicators.

Those import VW Busses are coming up as..

2011:

Fuel Type	Gas Bi-Fuel
Engine Size	1390 cc
Euro Status	4

The 2014 one:

Fuel Type	Gas Bi-Fuel
Engine Size	1390 cc
Euro Status	5b

Neither have a tax band or CO2 level showing..

According to tinternet its an EA111 engine from the Brazilian VW Gol, which is apparently the Euro VAG 1.4 seen in Polo`s/Golfs etc, but how are the importers getting them type approved/checked/verified? Yes, the engine is compliant in Euro spec, in Euro cars, but the`ve bunged it into a 50 year old brick of a shell imported from the Americas, so how did they go about getting it type approved, when there's no official NOx testing for cars in the UK, & when I cant fit a known compliant 2000`s Euro 4/5 Fiat FIRE lump into my similarly sized, lighter FIRE engined Uno`s & get type approval/compliance?

[uk_senator]

4 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

There's a market opportunity; leaflet all old shite in the zone with "I'll buy your non-ULEZ old shite", price match the scrappers, sell it all outside the zone for £££ and retire 18 months later as a millionaire.

If only I had the money or room...

[MikeR]

According to the Daily Wail 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12190275/TfL-issued-400million-worth-Ulez-fines-16-months.html#:~:text=Drivers whose vehicles do not,160 and £80 respectively.

400million has been taken out of people's pockets , so that that money won't be spent in the shops but porked by the political system on some projects , say 400 miles of cycle lanes ....

[willswitchengage]

1 hour ago, uk_senator said:

Those import VW Busses are coming up as..

2011:

Fuel Type	Gas Bi-Fuel
Engine Size	1390 cc
Euro Status	4

The 2014 one:

Fuel Type	Gas Bi-Fuel
Engine Size	1390 cc
Euro Status	5b

I think the bi-fuel is that they also run on E85.

Also, fun fact: the 'B' in LGBT stands for 'bi' implying relation to 'two', however with all this pronouns stuff we are are told there are more than two genders. Work that one out!!!

[willswitchengage]

2 hours ago, uk_senator said:

As I say, nonsense, why should there be different standards in different UK cities?

Scotland just likes being different to create an illusion of independence.

How about Germany's emissions sticker system. 1.9 TDI for example is a yellow sticker. I can't remember how it works though but I think a lot of city centres are GREEN zones and it's country-wide.

[N19]

2 hours ago, uk_senator said:

Is there a map of the camera locations, or have you just noticed them? I think I`m pretty much landlocked where I am, despite living not far from you..

This is what I've been noticing. I'm drawing a map of the ones I know in the area, I will send over.

[Jerzy Woking]

Over here, towns with more that 50,000 inhabitants had to introduce ULEZ routes and zones on 1st Jan 2023.

Guess what? The two cities nearest to me (Alicante and Elx) haven't done so yet. And they can't just blanket the whole city (like London) but have specific areas and streets where you need to display a Eco sticker. As its not the whole city, keeping out of these zones and away from these streets should be possible.

I have purchased stickers on all my bikes and my car. Cost is €5 for each, and they last as long as the government say they will. So maybe the discs will be valid for 5 years. 

[N19]

4 hours ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

TfL run bus lane enforcement cameras that use ANPR, some of these are mounted on the actual buses themselves. (Ask my brother in law, he's got a lovely picture of his motorbike from one  ).
No reason that they couldn't just pipe the data from those cameras into the LEZ system too? (just sayin')

I've setup the TfL account system for our vehicles/sprogs just in case we ever stray over the border - seems easiest rather tha sweat out where the new cameras are likely to be at.

There are a couple of LEZ cameras in Barnet which I am assuming will become part of the ULEZ monitoring. Whether traffic cameras for congestion or bus lanes etc will be...

I've set up the Mondeo with auto pay active, so the worst that'll happen is I pay the £12.50.

[Dave_Q]

4 hours ago, uk_senator said:

Those import VW Busses are coming up as..

2011:

Fuel Type	Gas Bi-Fuel
Engine Size	1390 cc
Euro Status	4

The 2014 one:

Fuel Type	Gas Bi-Fuel
Engine Size	1390 cc
Euro Status	5b

Neither have a tax band or CO2 level showing..

According to tinternet its an EA111 engine from the Brazilian VW Gol, which is apparently the Euro VAG 1.4 seen in Polo`s/Golfs etc, but how are the importers getting them type approved/checked/verified? Yes, the engine is compliant in Euro spec, in Euro cars, but the`ve bunged it into a 50 year old brick of a shell imported from the Americas, so how did they go about getting it type approved, when there's no official NOx testing for cars in the UK, & when I cant fit a known compliant 2000`s Euro 4/5 Fiat FIRE lump into my similarly sized, lighter FIRE engined Uno`s & get type approval/compliance?

Those campers were registered at a year or so old so they would have had to have certificates of compliance from the manufacturer.

The Brazil emissions levels are the same as euro so the vans are already euro compliant, presumably VW will just give you a cert in exchange for some money.

[LightBulbFun]

6 hours ago, uk_senator said:

Its literally the same engine, there may be a minor mapping difference between the two for different driving characteristics, which may explain the difference in C02, or maybe not, maybe its a data input error, I genuinely don't know. What I do know is, those engines are literally interchangeable in every way, & it was used in numerous Alfa`s in all body styles at that time, & it especially doesn't make sense that the marginally older one, with higher recorded C02, is compliant & the other is not. 

please stop focusing on the CO2 amount, it literally has nothing to do with ULEZ compliance, its all down to the NOx levels, so show us the NOx levels for those 2 vehicles, then we will be able to see what the deal is

 if one is down as 0.08 and the other is down as 0.081, well then one will be compliant, the other simply wont be, thats just how it is, that minor mapping difference you mention could be what makes one produce just that bit more NOx to push it over the edge

6 hours ago, uk_senator said:

Something else I`ve noticed with most, if not all post 2001 imported cars, is that the road tax band information on totalcarcheck is blank, whether they`re ULEZ compliant or not. I`ve also seen mid 2000`s ex-Japan "repatriated" European imports (petrol) cars, like Volvo`s & Mercs, arent ULEZ compliant, when you`d think that Japanese spec cars would have had more stringent regs than European spec ones at the time, & the Euro versions of these cars were all compliant at that time too. Has anyone on here got one of these cars, or imported one?

I believe that may be because I think a lot of imported cars end up in the Private/Light Goods taxation class rather than the "Petrol Car" taxation class

4 hours ago, uk_senator said:

& when I cant fit a known compliant 2000`s Euro 4/5 Fiat FIRE lump into my similarly sized, lighter FIRE engined Uno`s & get type approval/compliance?

but you can? fit engine (with all of its emissions equipment) write to TfL saying "my Fiat Uno has a later Euro 4/5 engine fitted" maybe with a picture or 2 and a letter from a proper garage confirming "yes this engine has been fitted", along with a letter from the engine manufacturer showing compliance, and theres a good chance you can get it exempted

 

 

[Dave_Q]

I don't think they would allow that, uk_senator did have a thread about that and did make some enquiries. 

There is a pathway to NOx test motorbikes but that place can't do cars. 

He got feedback that the only way to recert for NOx was to do a full type approval at somewhere like MIRA for a 6 figure sum.

I guess it comes down to the fact that putting a drivetrain in another type of car changes the g/km from the donor car and you can't guarantee it will be the same.

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

I don't think they would allow that, uk_senator did have a thread about that and did make some enquiries. 

There is a pathway to NOx test motorbikes but that place can't do cars. 

He got feedback that the only way to recert for NOx was to do a full type approval at somewhere like MIRA for a 6 figure sum.

I guess it comes down to the fact that putting a drivetrain in another type of car changes the g/km from the donor car and you can't guarantee it will be the same.

is it this thread, or another one I am missing?

https://autoshite.com/topic/53421-ulez-compliance-conversionstype-approval/

I mean if there is a thread where someone genuinely tried what I am putting forward I would love to have a read of it myself to see how they got on, cant beat real-world data  

but I dont see anything in the thread above at least that indicates anyone tried what I suggested, or that TFL would reject it, only that @uk_senator called up a bike place about it

 

as you say, someone could get arsey about it, and say "since thats no longer in the original car anymore it *could* be different" but at the same time I do think you might be able to squeak it through

I am only talking about getting it registered with TFL here, I am not talking about getting figures added to the DVLA record, but I think as long as you can show offical documentation that shows the driveline you have fitted does generally meet the required NOx levels you could get it manually white-listed by TfL at least

[Jerzy Woking]

21 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

I don't think they would allow that, uk_senator did have a thread about that and did make some enquiries. 

There is a pathway to NOx test motorbikes but that place can't do cars. 

 

Couple of my mates have a 2006 Suzuki V-Strom 650 and a Yamaha Fazer 600. Both are liable to the ULEZ charge.

One wrote to Suzuki to ask for the NOx figure, which they gave him. It is now exempt from ULEZ (at least until they move the goalposts).

Yanmaha told my other mate they do not have any details on NOx for his bike, so he'll have to pay for that test in East London. And it might not show the NOx is low enough for exemption.

[Dave_Q]

27 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

is it this thread, or another one I am missing?

https://autoshite.com/topic/53421-ulez-compliance-conversionstype-approval/

I mean if there is a thread where someone genuinely tried what I am putting forward I would love to have a read of it myself to see how they got on, cant beat real-world data  

but I dont see anything in the thread above at least that indicates anyone tried what I suggested, or that TFL would reject it, only that @uk_senator called up a bike place about it

 

as you say, someone could get arsey about it, and say "since thats no longer in the original car anymore it *could* be different" but at the same time I do think you might be able to squeak it through

I am only talking about getting it registered with TFL here, I am not talking about getting figures added to the DVLA record, but I think as long as you can show offical documentation that shows the driveline you have fitted does generally meet the required NOx levels you could get it manually white-listed by TfL at least

Yes it's that thread, I don't think anyone has tried just fitting the engine and writing to TFL, I'd also be interested in seeing what happens but it's a lot of effort for someone to go to to be told "computer says no"

[horriblemercedes]

24 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Yes it's that thread, I don't think anyone has tried just fitting the engine and writing to TFL, I'd also be interested in seeing what happens but it's a lot of effort for someone to go to to be told "computer says no"

I suppose the way to test it is to find someone who already has an older car with a more modern engine swap and see how it goes

[uk_senator]

12 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Yes it's that thread, I don't think anyone has tried just fitting the engine and writing to TFL, I'd also be interested in seeing what happens but it's a lot of effort for someone to go to to be told "computer says no"

Precisely. all that work & a very definite possibility of them saying no.. If it was just a case of an afternoon swapping the engines, I`d do it just to see, obviously, but you`d also have to transfer & incorporate all the wiring & ECU`s, and you`d have to overcome issues like the lack of wheel speed sensors & loss of ABS etc in the ECU, which all the later compliant cars had. Then there's things like, would they then require dash warning lights to be fitted to display running issues as well?

It would be worth it (to me) IF I felt they`d be logical about it, but we know what they`re like, & its a hell of a lot of work  for some spotty TFL/DOOVLA pen pusher, who`s engineering knowledge only extends to Lego Technic sets, to say no, & I don't even have a garage to work in any more...

[uk_senator]

 

2 hours ago, Jerzy Woking said:

Over here, towns with more that 50,000 inhabitants had to introduce ULEZ routes and zones on 1st Jan 2023.

Guess what? The two cities nearest to me (Alicante and Elx) haven't done so yet. And they can't just blanket the whole city (like London) but have specific areas and streets where you need to display a Eco sticker. As its not the whole city, keeping out of these zones and away from these streets should be possible.

I have purchased stickers on all my bikes and my car. Cost is €5 for each, and they last as long as the government say they will. So maybe the discs will be valid for 5 years. 

Someone I know was saying about the ULEZ in Madrid decimating the reto scene, with loads of rust free retro`s getting scrapped, & I`ve seen the same in Italy. I`m not sure if theres a historic class in either country, or what age they have to be to qualify though.

[Jerzy Woking]

Yes, there is an Historic class of car here, that is cars over 30 years old. But then there a number of criteria to be met, one being it should not be modified at all. Its quite complicated when you get into it

https://carinsurancespain.es/historic-vehicle-regulations-in-spain-2023/amp/

Plus most Spaniards buy a car new, and run it into the ground over the next 15 to 20 years. They are scrapped because although the bodywork is rust free, the engine, gearbox, electrics or suspension are knackered. Usually all four.

They do have scrappage schemes here, so if your  car is on its last legs, you can trade it in for a new one. From my observations, it's the way most Spanish view cars.

[willswitchengage]

Well Labour Party leader man said today he can't decide if he supports the ULEZ extension or not so I guess there's hope that it'll be abandoned at the last minute.

[wesacosa]

2 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

Well Labour Party leader man said today he can't decide if he supports the ULEZ extension or not so I guess there's hope that it'll be abandoned at the last minute.

he changed his tune as a few months ago he said he 100 percent backed it and suggested a 10 year loan scheme for poor people to get them selves hocked up in debt to buy an EV

The labour Uxbridge candidate also changed his in about a week too

[TheOtherStu]

11 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

Well Labour Party leader man said today he can't decide if he supports the ULEZ extension or not so I guess there's hope that it'll be abandoned at the last minute.

There's absolutely no way Khan will get another bite at the Mayor's job.

Normally, London would vote for Ghengis Khan if he had wore a red rosette.

[busmansholiday]

Go on, somebody explain why I cannot go into Brum or Bristol..

 

[wesacosa]

13 minutes ago, TheOtherStu said:

There's absolutely no way Khan will get another bite at the Mayor's job.

Normally, London would vote for Ghengis Khan if he had wore a red rosette.

He's the Labour candidate and the Tory's are not exactly popular, and the anti ULEZ vote will be split between whoever Tory candidate is and Howard Cox. I think he might get in again but dearly hope not

[Dave_Q]

9 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Go on, somebody explain why I cannot go into Brum or Bristol..

 

Brum and Bristol are the only ones outside London with cars included. Same as ULEZ euro 4 petrol/ euro 6 diesel. All the others are commercials only.

Hence why this Mercedes Vito Traveliner had to pay to go to Sheffield and Bradford:

While this very different Mercedes Vito Traveliner does not despite only being euro 5:

As it's fitted with the NOx-killing factory option Z42: