The best everyday car to avoid modern cars?

[messerschmitt owner]

I too need a big estate Spent the past month researching!Am ignoring petrol ones as I like the simplicity of diesel and its ability to do high mileages while getting decent fuel consumption (I expect to do c. 10,000 miles a year in whatever it is).My list of possibilities goes like this:Mercedes W124 300D - runs on veg oil - expensive to buy still (£1500 for a decent one) and if your rear suspension goes, expect a bill of £500 or more as the shocks are £350! Will do 40mpg so not as good as you'd like.VW Passat - really good fuel consumption - and I mean really good, still dear and not as reliable as VW would make outAudi 80/100 - still looking at a grand for a tidy one that is almost twenty years old but great fuel consumptionMondeo - reliable, easy to fix, parts cheap but quite dull and agricultural engineBMW 525 - every one I see is shagged - can't say more than that. Again, a grand buys you an L plate with 200,000+ milesCitroen XM - can't find a cheap one, not well built and too many leccie problems on them - but beautiful car and huge tooPug 406 - me likey, simple, rugged engine that will do stellar milesCitroen BX - my first choice - ooh la la. And I can reuse my pipe flaring tool again.Not much else out there excites me. I kinda like the Xantia and would buy a 406 HDi at the right price but they're starting to get too complicated to fix easily at home.

[Spottedlaurel]

I'd agree with Retrogeezer on the Bluebird T12/T72, for the UK and for a few more years at least.But I don't think anything FWD is a good long-term solution. Too complicated to swap in different engines, gearboxes etc when spares run out. RWD and soild rear axle is the simplest thing for the long-haul, relatively simple to transplant alternative bits into.So ultimately I'd go along with Hirst in his line of thought. As he says, rustproofing and body repairs can always be sorted somehow, just look at what they do in Cuba.I bought my Camry as a long-term car, but even then I think it's only got five years or so. And I'll be stockpiling spares cars.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Mate honest john talks nonsense.

Agreed. It's bollocks for Guardian readers who like the idea of an old car but will never do it.I favour pre 1993 stuff just to avoid the bastard Cat test although a supply of good used catalysts hidden away is no big deal.Mark 3 Chavaliers, carbed Pinto Sierras, E34 5 Series (12v manual box), 190E Benz are all pleasant enough to punt around and don't feel like they're 1000 years old. They're worth fuck all and are cheap to run and fix.A mate just bought a 1992 K reg 320i for £250. It drives like new which equates to Very Pleasant. He just spent £600 at trhe bodyshop having it minted - not sure if that was a good plan or not....

[messerschmitt owner]

Mate honest john talks nonsense.

Agreed. It's bollocks for Guardian readers who like the idea of an old car but will never do it.

it's bollocks for Telegraph readers, you mean

[AnthonyG]

In the UK, Mondeo 1800 petrol or diesel would be a good choice, although the clutch change is a hard job. Mk1s actually last better than Mk2s, they must have been better built or had superior paint.In Austria, it would have to be a Volvo, Saab 900 (the proper non GM one) or a VW, Mercedes or BMW.I don't know what a Audi 100 'C4' is, but the 1983-91 ones have disappeared, despite being galvanised, due to low value and high parts prices. I am guessing a 'C4' is the 1991 to 1997 one, there are not many of them around either, for the same reasons, although they didn't sell that many to start with.

[dieselnutjob]

i used to have a 1996 Passat TDI estateit was a very economical car and the only two emission controls (EGR and cat) were very easy to disconnectMine has 150,000 miles on it and is still going strong with it's current ownerAlso it did 47mpg even being driven hardThe front brakes are bit small which I fixed by going to Corrado G60 brakes and 15" alloysThis was the most popular estate in Europe at the time and there must be loads in Austria

[Talbotman]

Id say a Pug 306 estate - petrol or diesel , cheap parts , good scrappy supply, galvanised, pretty simple to fix..and newer longer lasting than a 405.

[Milford Cubicle]

The BX TZD actually had the 1.7 Turbo diesel engine. They are fapping awesome machines, but you can expect regular maintenance to keep it happy. Worth it in my opinion, but I may be biased!

1769cc = 1.8 rounded up. I dunno why people refer to them as 1.7s.

[Owain-328i]

BMW e34 525i 24v with a manual box, reasonable size, reasonable performance, bullet proof if looked after correctly, easy to maintain and repair at home.

[meggersdog]

Have to agree with some choices.If it's a diesel then anything XUD.My favourite would be a Xantia,comfy seats and with good spheres the ride is superb.The suspension isn't that complicated and doesn't wear out the rear arms as quick as Pugs.HDi's have fuel sensors that play up if you use anything but diesel and like the 2.1's the multi V belts tend to shred and almost always result in the shredded piece going behind the cambelt cover eventually or sometimes instantly causing the timing belt to jump teeth.NASTY.Generally breaking cam followers which are tricky to replace insitu.If it's petrol estate you are after then a well cared for Volvo 940 will last forever.Go for a GLE with leather,nicely screwed together and bullet proof mechanicals.

[Tayne]

/

[r.welfare]

I think that finding a Peugeot 405 diesel in well cared-for condition such that you won't need to spend a lot of money on it is a near impossible task these days - I know this, having had 4 in the last 3 years and having done over 50,000 miles in them. The youngest will be at least 13 years old, and they tend to now be with uncaring owners who do just enough maintenance to keep them running. Those who really cherish them keep forever and won't be parted with them under any circumstances That said, once the weak points have been addressed they are relatively simple mechanically, but you'll probably have a list of niggling non-major issues to address which you can either live with or can't, and sorting them will well exceed the value of the car!

[Guest]

I liked my old Vauxhall, because it had a very simple LE2 injection system with a flap-type airflow meter, which lasted more than a few miles as modern ones do these days. My current piece of shite is a Vectra B and I have to say I'd never buy anything again which involves OBDII or CANBUS. They are swear words as far as I'm concerned. I'm an electronic engineer and I hate to see other people paying £700 to have their immobilisers fixed and I hate buying crap sensors as regularly as milk.

[Milford Cubicle]

1982 Renault 30TX with V6-Turbo conversion

More information please!

[Josh_Cohen]

I personally think a nice saab 9000 will do

 

i do 400miles a week in my car and its bulletproof and still quick

 

its an lpt so driven responsibly i return 38 MPG

 

its a 97 which i guess is quite old but not to new

 

 

 

or a 900 classic there good 2 just a little pricey these days

[Station]

Yeah it's quite difficult to get trim parts (though easily available in Australia), but any mechanical part seems to be up for sale at an amusing price.

When I had my Mitsubishi I bought most of my stuff from Australia, of whom were all happy to post and they arrived in four or five days. I bought six sensors for about 30 quid including postage, it would've cost 200 quid over here second hand.I'd be happy to drive a mk3 Astra or less so mk3 Cavalier, Astra just seems to tick all the right boxes for me. Or an E36 BMW 318.

[trigger]

That red SAAB 9000 is bloody lovely!, I am a sucker for big bright red cars.

[Josh_Cohen]

Cheers trigger its a labour of love that car, its taken a while to source all the parts cheap but she's getting there LOL here are some other pics ( To keep you occupied ) LOL

 

 

 

 

And my previous 1 as sourced by nigel bickle

 

[Rocket88]

Octavia 1.9 tdi, end of.

[AlsoMike]

Thought I might put in my 2 pence, seeing as that's my car in the first post I'm going to fight the 205s corner a bit, I've driven a couple and they are a hoot to drive, in petrol form anyway. The dizzlars can get great mpg and aren't dog slow. Peugeots of this era seem to have the comfiest seats EVAR, which can't be bad. Like others have said, they are galvanised which gives them a fighting chance in the sea of salt we have on the roads every winter and parts are readily available at decent prices. The only downside I suppose is that they aren't very big, but you can't have it all.

 

Have another photo of mine.

 

 

I do need some indicator lenses for this actually if anyone has some? The orange sort I mean.

[garbaldy]

Octavia 1.9 tdi, end of.

good choice nice enough car but stuffed full off electronics which will be outdated and then how do you fix it.i had a 98 seat toledo tdi and the seat garage diagnosed a goosed ecu £1100 for a new one, i asked if i could get one from a scraped vag group car his reply was that would like putting my brain in your head and expecting it to work

[Station]

What beauties those old <2000 Saabs were!

[pogweasel]

I do need some indicator lenses for this actually if anyone has some? The orange sort I mean.

Why? Grey lenses are the correct spec for a J-reg (having previously had to rid my 205 of the incorrect orange lenses).I note from the badging that it is also a spackamatic. What engine does it have?? Did they do an auto in smaller capacity engines (i.e. cheap tax)??

[Rocket88]

Octavia 1.9 tdi, end of.

good choice nice enough car but stuffed full off electronics which will be outdated and then how do you fix it.i had a 98 seat toledo tdi and the seat garage diagnosed a goosed ecu £1100 for a new one, i asked if i could get one from a scraped vag group car his reply was that would like putting my brain in your head and expecting it to work

95% of all electrical faults on Skodas are caused by the row of big fuses on top of the battery, which can look fine, but can have hair line fractures. They're the princely sum of 95p each to replace. If the ECU was borked, rebuilds are about £195. I've never seen a fried VAG ecu in the 6 years that I've been messing about with them

[AlsoMike]

I do need some indicator lenses for this actually if anyone has some? The orange sort I mean.

Why? Grey lenses are the correct spec for a J-reg (having previously had to rid my 205 of the incorrect orange lenses).I note from the badging that it is also a spackamatic. What engine does it have?? Did they do an auto in smaller capacity engines (i.e. cheap tax)??

I just prefer the orange ones, I'm not too fussed about it being correct for the year or anything. It is indeed a Mills-Omatic, with the 1580cc engine, s'posed to have summit like 88bhp, so it whisks along nicely. No idea if they did a smaller engined auto, all the ones I've seen were 1.6s.

[Josh_Cohen]

the thing i love about saabs is that if the ECU goes funny you get another ecu plug it in and it works, all you have to do is get the VSS code transfered to your new ECU so the alarm works £20 at a saab specialist the rest of the electrics are bullet proof and with so many being broken for parts theres a limitless supply, you can buy a whole car for £200BRILLIANT!

[Mr H Sceptre]

Aplogies if its already been suggested (cant bee arsed re-reading the whole thread!), but how about a dizzle BX? Comfortable, durable, relatively economical, stylish, pretty cheap to buy......

[transfer]

Older, esp the oil burning MB 124s can be a steal if owners haven't kept them pristine, they'll last long enough to not have to buy a coffin. BX tds as others have said - very fast and stable, really upsets moderns, just don't buy spheres from motor factors but AEP or GSF style supplier. There's a Pug 305 estate round here which seems to go on and on, good simple Peugeot of the old school. Pre GM Saab 900s, maybe even Volvo 850s, Audi 100 88-93 quattro if you can find one, better still a series 2 Passat with the injected 5 pot lump. Best of all though a proper Jacques Tati Citroen Dyane which isn't rotten - I've seen a few taxed and tested ones on fleabay go for under 500, roll the roof off to get a tan or carry a crane (or to lower your spare Discovery engine into), brakes and steering unbeaten this side of a Caterham and crazy handling which although good makes people scatter when angles increase. 85mph (so 90+ on a modern car's speedo) on the Mway unless its a headwind, if you make use of all the air others drag along at their cost. Way better than any 2CV, the cooling fan even supercharges the intake. :shock: Perfect as a daily shed, just drill a few holes and squirt the usual preservative of your choice to preserve the value. Sell it for a profit if you clean it.

 

 

[Lukas]

This dealerstamp is from a dealer in my hometown! That´s what I call coincidence.

[GJR 11L]

205s Galvanised? Really?