Govt proposals for MoT changes

[Gentil79]

What does everyone think of the proposals published on Wednesday?

I don’t agree with them and many drivers don’t agree with them either.

My 2 pence here:

 

[Rust Collector]

I think we had this topic already, and I'm fairly sure that we came to the conclusion that we are all going to die/it will be absolutely fine/it will destroy the economy/it will improve the economy.

I think the cost saving line from the government is bullshit, if you have a three year old car then you probably have the means to afford £55 once a year. Even if you're a peasant like me then what difference is a £55 saving once every two years going to make.

Probably the most notable issue in my opinion is the loss of revenue to MOT stations, the figures given in the paper aren't insignificant and it's not like it's already a brilliant landscape for SME's these days.

Selfishly I wouldn't mind it going to 4 years for the first test with 2 year intervals, but realistically it's probably best left alone.

[garbaldy]

It's a shit idea as the state of some vehicles after just a year is enough to make the mind boggle,  Some people can look after a car but many don't care about them let alone any noises they make until its too late.

Soz but I'm not clicking a link to listen to someone's opinion when it could have been typed here anyway.

[Gentil79]

9 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

I think we had this topic already, and I'm fairly sure that we came to the conclusion that we are all going to die/it will be absolutely fine/it will destroy the economy/it will improve the economy.

I think the cost saving line from the government is bullshit, if you have a three year old car then you probably have the means to afford £55 once a year. Even if you're a peasant like me then what difference is a £55 saving once every two years going to make.

Probably the most notable issue in my opinion is the loss of revenue to MOT stations, the figures given in the paper aren't insignificant and it's not like it's already a brilliant landscape for SME's these days.

Selfishly I wouldn't mind it going to 4 years for the first test with 2 year intervals, but realistically it's probably best left alone.

Totally, the £54.85 won’t make much difference as many places charge around £35 anyway, so the saving is insignificant. 
And yes, garages will have a big impact. Many are closing already as they can’t afford the rising costs or rent and utilities.

[Gentil79]

10 minutes ago, garbaldy said:

It's a shit idea as the state of some vehicles after just a year is enough to make the mind boggle,  Some people can look after a car but many don't care about them let alone any noises they make until its too late.

Soz but I'm not clicking a link to listen to someone's opinion when it could have been typed here anyway.

No problem if you don’t click on the link. At the end of the day, it’s a very important issue and it’s good to know everybody’s opinion. 

[sierraman]

If someone can’t afford £55 a year on the car realistically they need to get off the road as they’re not financially fit to be on it. A better way would be making it a flat £60 wherever you go and it’s every year after 3 years old. 

[Gentil79]

19 minutes ago, sierraman said:

If someone can’t afford £55 a year on the car realistically they need to get off the road as they’re not financially fit to be on it. A better way would be making it a flat £60 wherever you go and it’s every year after 3 years old. 

Totally agree. 

[Barry Cade]

28 minutes ago, sierraman said:

If someone can’t afford £55 a year on the car realistically they need to get off the road as they’re not financially fit to be on it. A better way would be making it a flat £60 wherever you go and it’s every year after 3 years old. 

I filled in the DVLA survey, and that's pretty much what I said. I also said it should be taken out of private garages hands and a system like Germany or Spain put in place.

[Gentil79]

8 minutes ago, Barry Cade said:

I filled in the DVLA survey, and that's pretty much what I said. I also said it should be taken out of private garages hands and a system like Germany or Spain put in place.

Absolutely. In Portugal it is the same system as in Germany and Spain where MoT stations do exactly just that; Mot’s. The system in the UK can be promiscuous when there is no independency between the tester and the repairer.  Not saying that all garages behave like that, but there have been cases where things have been suspicious.

[Split_Pin]

£45-55 for someone to look over my car and deem it un/roadworthy every year sounds like good value to me. I am conscienceous but I still miss stuff such as the lest last week where the back of the discs on my 75 were found to be in very poor condition. 

If it goes to 2 years I'm still submitting the car annually.

[Gentil79]

Completely agree and I would be doing the same too. I look after my cars, but I can miss something. Besides, I don’t have the equipment to do a full look so getting someone else to do it is good value. Even when my MOt exempt E12 is back on the road, I’ll still be getting it through an MOT annually.

[danthecapriman]

Sounds like I’m in a minority tbh, but I don’t get any of my cars old enough to be exempt tested now I don’t have to. I don’t honestly think the current MOT is applicable or appropriate for cars built so long ago. 
 

If anything, I’d be up for a very basic MOT like test tailored for classics (anything old enough to be tax exempt for arguments sake) test basic structure for rot. Basic steering and brakes function. Lights work and that’s it. Or even do this but make it something that classic cars must go through once every two years or something. 

[Barry Cade]

8 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Sounds like I’m in a minority tbh, but I don’t get any of my cars old enough to be exempt tested now I don’t have to. I don’t honestly think the current MOT is applicable or appropriate for cars built so long ago. 
 

If anything, I’d be up for a very basic MOT like test tailored for classics (anything old enough to be tax exempt for arguments sake) test basic structure for rot. Basic steering and brakes function. Lights work and that’s it. Or even do this but make it something that classic cars must go through once every two years or something. 

I think like the majority of classic car owners, you are an enthusiast and maintain your car properly. I did worry when the exemption was introduced that some unscrupulous folk would buy an old car just to save cash but that didn't really happen.  I probably wouldn't get an exempt car motd either, but it would be kept to beyond mot standard.

[horriblemercedes]

14 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Sounds like I’m in a minority tbh, but I don’t get any of my cars old enough to be exempt tested now I don’t have to. I don’t honestly think the current MOT is applicable or appropriate for cars built so long ago. 
 

If anything, I’d be up for a very basic MOT like test tailored for classics (anything old enough to be tax exempt for arguments sake) test basic structure for rot. Basic steering and brakes function. Lights work and that’s it. Or even do this but make it something that classic cars must go through once every two years or something. 

That should be the case though - cars are tested to the standards applicable when they were new. No one expects a 1986 Escort to have the same emissions standards as a 2018 Focus, for example. 

 

My dad's car is from 1972 and he sends it for an MOT every March just because there's no harm in it

 

I appreciate that you are probably capable of keeping a car roadworthy - I'm not commenting on that. I see no problem with you doing what you do, but in my experience the test is fine for old cars. Probably depends on the tester though 

[Dyslexic Viking]

A similar test to MOT in Norway is every 2 years on cars older than 4 years and newer than 1960. It has been like this for 27 years and no nuns or kittens have died yet. I would have been annoyed if the car had to be tested every year.

[Gentil79]

28 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

A similar test to MOT in Norway is every 2 years on cars older than 4 years and newer than 1960. It has been like this for 27 years and no nuns or kittens have died yet. I would have been annoyed if the car had to be tested every year.

That’s fine, but it has worked like that but the Nordic countries have a completely different culture. Look at their driving tests which are more thorough and stricter, same with some driving laws. 
Here it’s rules that are getting relaxed, and that’s where lies the problem because when some rules are relaxed, people get complacent. 

[Justwatching]

So I won't have to get an overzealous safety inspection from a rip-off merchant as often?

Fine by me.

[danthecapriman]

53 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

That should be the case though - cars are tested to the standards applicable when they were new. No one expects a 1986 Escort to have the same emissions standards as a 2018 Focus, for example. 

 

My dad's car is from 1972 and he sends it for an MOT every March just because there's no harm in it

 

I appreciate that you are probably capable of keeping a car roadworthy - I'm not commenting on that. I see no problem with you doing what you do, but in my experience the test is fine for old cars. Probably depends on the tester though 

It probably is more down to the tester themselves tbh, but from experience, you take a 1970’s car to a tester who then does his test more or less exactly the same (barring the emissions tests) to the 2015 car he’s got in afterwards. 
They then fail the 70’s car for excessive movement in brake or steering parts (for example). This is wrong, as the old car was built with that sort of movement, for whatever reason. The tester failed it because the tester doesn’t understand such old vehicles and simply because it doesn’t conform to ‘what the book says’ or it doesn’t feel as solid as the multitude of modern cars they normally test day in day out.

Thats why you need to find a tester nowadays who does know old cars and has experience of them.which is getting harder to do now. Hence why I think a short simplified test for classics would be ideal.

[artdjones]

1 hour ago, Gentil79 said:

Absolutely. In Portugal it is the same system as in Germany and Spain where MoT stations do exactly just that; Mot’s. The system in the UK can be promiscuous when there is no independency between the tester and the repairer.  Not saying that all garages behave like that, but there have been cases where things have been suspicious.

The problem with that is that every government service ends up being run without the customer's interest being taken into account. We have government testing stations in Ireland, and at the moment there's a 3 to 4 month waiting list in many areas. There's an online booking system, but only about 30% of the possible appointments are ever put on there. So you have to phone up the call centre, be put on a priority*list, and then wait for them to get back with a test slot, one which will be convenient for them, rather than you. When everyone is on a priority list, no-one is. Also the test expiry isn't based on the test date, but the registration date, so if your car is off the road for a period, say 6 months, the test will only be for 6 months. Also, as the vast majority of cars are registered in the first 3 months of the year, even pre COVID there was always a vast backlog of tests during that time.

Also, do you really want the test system run by the kind of people who run DVLA, the NHS, or the DWP?

[artdjones]

4 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

It probably is more down to the tester themselves tbh, but from experience, you take a 1970’s car to a tester who then does his test more or less exactly the same (barring the emissions tests) to the 2015 car he’s got in afterwards. 
They then fail the 70’s car for excessive movement in brake or steering parts (for example). This is wrong, as the old car was built with that sort of movement, for whatever reason. The tester failed it because the tester doesn’t understand such old vehicles and simply because it doesn’t conform to ‘what the book says’ or it doesn’t feel as solid as the multitude of modern cars they normally test day in day out.

Thats why you need to find a tester nowadays who does know old cars and has experience of them.which is getting harder to do now. Hence why I think a short simplified test for classics would be ideal.

I remember having my Dolomite failed for having some play in the front wheel bearings, which was perfectly permissible according to the workshop manual, as they were taper roller bearings.In the end, as split pins were cheap, it was easier to nip them up before the test, and ease them afterwards.

[sierraman]

It probably is a case of the tester not being familiar with that vehicle but that’s what the testing manual is for. Like anything, there’s enthusiasts like @danthecapriman that know their stuff and will keep it top notch, on the other hand there’s some I’ve seen that really should be off the tools, I’m talking really bad welds not continuously seam welded, suspension bits hacked about, bits of household cable used for various purposes. Unfortunately as with a lot of things the actions of a minority end up ruining it for everyone.

I have noticed they are looking whether to include NoX particulate testing, basically to catch people out if they’ve gutted the DPF. The cost of implementing this and phasing it in though would be huge so I wouldn’t worry, most of the ones knocking about now will be long dead before this comes around. 

[Gentil79]

4 minutes ago, artdjones said:

The problem with that is that every government service ends up being run without the customer's interest being taken into account. We have government testing stations in Ireland, and at the moment there's a 3 to 4 month waiting list in many areas. There's an online booking system, but only about 30% of the possible appointments are ever put on there. So you have to phone up the call centre, be put on a priority*list, and then wait for them to get back with a test slot, one which will be convenient for them, rather than you. When everyone is on a priority list, no-one is. Also the test expiry isn't based on the test date, but the registration date, so if your car is off the road for a period, say 6 months, the test will only be for 6 months. Also, as the vast majority of cars are registered in the first 3 months of the year, even pre COVID there was always a vast backlog of tests during that time.

Also, do you really want the test system run by the kind of people who run DVLA, the NHS, or the DWP?

You raise good point there. The system in Portugal is similar to the Irish where the test is made in the anniversary of the registration, but the centres are privately owned, don’t belong to the government agency and don’t have repair facilities. Booking is direct with them or you can just walk in and queue up.

[sierraman]

4 minutes ago, artdjones said:

The problem with that is that every government service ends up being run without the customer's interest being taken into account. We have government testing stations in Ireland, and at the moment there's a 3 to 4 month waiting list in many areas. There's an online booking system, but only about 30% of the possible appointments are ever put on there. So you have to phone up the call centre, be put on a priority*list, and then wait for them to get back with a test slot, one which will be convenient for them, rather than you. When everyone is on a priority list, no-one is. Also the test expiry isn't based on the test date, but the registration date, so if your car is off the road for a period, say 6 months, the test will only be for 6 months. Also, as the vast majority of cars are registered in the first 3 months of the year, even pre COVID there was always a vast backlog of tests during that time.

Also, do you really want the test system run by the kind of people who run DVLA, the NHS, or the DWP?

Good point. There isn’t the set up to do this, it would just be absolute chaos. Also if it fails there would be no facility to do a simple repair and retest. Plus why would the Government want to do this? They already profit per MOT anyway to the tune of £2.08, why would they get involved in running the station?

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, sierraman said:

If someone can’t afford £55 a year on the car realistically they need to get off the road as they’re not financially fit to be on it. A better way would be making it a flat £60 wherever you go and it’s every year after 3 years old. 

Absolutely this.  £55 is a tank and a half of fuel in the sodding Invacar...that is going to make absolutely zero difference to anyone in the real world - and if it is, sorry you shouldn't be on the road as you're not in a financial situation to keep your car in a safe condition.  If you can't afford the £55 you're not exactly going to be able to afford the repairs are you?

Given I can walk around basically any public car park around here and pretty much guarantee I'll find at least one car within a couple of minutes with the tyre cords visible says all I need to about "people will be responsible." Like hell they will.

The MOT is a bloody good idea and great value for having a second pair of eyes run over the car and my work.  I'm only human, I miss things sometimes.  Plus I don't have a two post lift, brake rollers or decent emissions tester...

[FakeConcern]

If you walk along pretty much any row of parked cars, you will find at least one with an obviously illegal tyre, often the car in question is about three years old or newer, so no I don't think longer MOT intervals are a good idea.

Happy with no MOT for classic cars as it takes an enthusiast with dedication just to keep the thing going so most will have it to MOT standard or better.

[hairnet]

no they need to leave it the fuck alone...........

when covid happened and places were closed so you couldnt get a test then stuff that was hanging by a thread got a reprieve for a while and thats just nuts 

circumstances forced that and thats fine cos it is hopefully a one off but to say that itll save people money when its a small amount to give out once a year is horseshit

shit peugeot does so few miles or has since it was new us and prev owner - that its not gonna be an issue but thats not the point - i want it testing cos the old git is using it not cos some cock in an office in a suit says oh no dont worry 

just cos they work for a ministry doesnt mean theyre correct

sorry rant - im ill but compus

 

[sierraman]

8 minutes ago, FakeConcern said:

If you walk along pretty much any row of parked cars, you will find at least one with an obviously illegal tyre, often the car in question is about three years old or newer, so no I don't think longer MOT intervals are a good idea.

Happy with no MOT for classic cars as it takes an enthusiast with dedication just to keep the thing going so most will have it to MOT standard or better.

But what’s the penalty for a bald tyre? 3 points? £100 fine? Where’s the consequence in that? Too often people will go ‘I’m don’t know much about cars’ as some sort of defence. 

[danthecapriman]

16 minutes ago, artdjones said:

I remember having my Dolomite failed for having some play in the front wheel bearings, which was perfectly permissible according to the workshop manual, as they were taper roller bearings.In the end, as split pins were cheap, it was easier to nip them up before the test, and ease them afterwards.

That’s exactly what happened to me! No amount of explaining or telling the guy about different types of bearings was changing his mind though unfortunately. As you say, in the end I had to nip them up, get the retest then back them off afterwards. Then not go back there again!

[Gentil79]

3 minutes ago, sierraman said:

But what’s the penalty for a bald tyre? 3 points? £100 fine? Where’s the consequence in that? Too often people will go ‘I’m don’t know much about cars’ as some sort of defence. 

That’s true, however there are insurance implication that people don’t realize. If they have an accident and the vehicle is t roadworthy, there won’t be a payout and they can have more severe consequences if they are to blame for any collisions

[Matty]

My two pennorth.  The MOT is every 12 months for a reason. For most people, that is the only qualified attention that motor will see for 12 months. Bald tires, dangerously compromised suspension systems et al are the norm these days. As cars have become increasingly reliable people will do absolutely fuck all but drive them. Not trying to be alarmist or sensationalist but lengthening the test period will sign some poor fuckers death warrant. And like as not it won't be the bone idle selfish prick driving the mobile death trap.

For what it's worth, I also think the MOT exemption is bollocks, and I own a 55 year old car. I'm a time served mechanical engineer whose been in the game since 16 (just turned 42 this week). I know my way around a piece of machinery, whatever its job, I'm in heavy industrial plant it's what I'm paid for. However, my classic will be presented to my trusted MOT tester every 12 months cos he knows what he is on with. He tells me it's safe, I'll not be deciding for myself.

In the wrong hands, in poor running order, a ton and a half of steel will seriously hurt or kill someone. End of.