Ford Project Drive

[Barry Cade]

To whoever it may concern,

                                                              Have worked on a few new Fords recently, involving removing bumpers, interior trim etc. I am shocked how bad the quality has got. Everything is sharp,brittle and flimsy, seems to be 2018 ish on. There must have been some sort of Project Drive going on..Poor Rover got ripped for this but I'd say its more obvious with Fordies. Taking off a boot trim panel is like being trapped in a squash court with 2 professional squash players... shit ricocheting around with no idea where it is. I slashed 4 fingers on a sill trim panel just grabbing it to pull it out the clips, proper deep paper type cuts. Broke a Puma sill panel the other day being very gentle and using a trim clip remover.  Far worse on the colder temps. The wiring is really thin and when you try and strip back it just breaks. They've done away with the towbar plugs at the back now too, which Fords always had. Dashboard supports are badly welded unprotected steel and show rust even on 22 plates. Bumpers seem to be a white plastic now and the paint chips off really easily, and the taillights are really really brittle. 

Much worse than a Dacia which you could possibly forgive. 

Signed,

Angry of Fife.

[Kevin-TIB]

Sirs,

In response to Angry of Fife, I must offer my agreement to two of his points. 

1- stone chips seem to be a real vulnerability

 2 - something in the dashboard creaks from about 40mph and Ford "can't hear anything"

I'm very disappointed in their QC nowadays,

K-TIB

(at the other end of the country)

 

[artdjones]

If you've ever looked closely at 1970s Ford's you will realise that they are reverting to the mean. After the Escort V debacle Ford realised they had to get ahead of the game in engineering terms, and a lot of their cars were very good quality, for example the mk1 Mondeo and Focus. Even Fiestas after the mk 4. Now they are going back to concentrating on marketing and cost-cutting.

[adw1977]

I think the cost cutting goes back further than 2018. 

When I went from a bottom of the range 2001 Mondeo to a top of the range 2009 Focus I wasn't impressed, although that was more cost cutting in the design than the quality of the parts.  There were little things like deleting the gas struts from the bonnet and not bothering to have a different centre console / handbrake location for right hand drive cars.  

Equipment levels were unimpressive too, although possibly that was related to going down a size / class of car.  I had to get a top spec Focus in order to get electric windows all round, for example.  They were standard on all Mk3 Mondeos. 

[sierraman]

The margins are so tight that they’ll all be doing it. If you look at most VAG stuff, a veneer of quality then underneath that it’s built to the bare standard. People forget they design a car to last 10 years, Ford and for that matter any other manufacturer couldn’t give a fuck about some bloke on a driveway 15 years down the line struggling with a seized bolt. The amount of times people have said ‘why don’t they fit copper brake pipes’ or whatever... they couldn’t give a fuck about 10-15 years down the line.

If you were making a £30,000 car would you give any thought to someone who ends up, after several years and owners buying it for 10% of its original purchase price, given he’s unlikely to contribute anything towards your profits?

[artdjones]

3 minutes ago, sierraman said:

If you were making a £30,000 car would you give any thought to someone who ends up, after several years and owners buying it for 10% of its original purchase price, given he’s unlikely to contribute anything towards your profits

Probably they don't care about someone buying a 10 year old car, but they should care about durability for second and third owners as it has such an effect on residual values.

What you said about VAG is very true. In fact all the German manufacturers are big on perceived quality, not underlying quality. 

[adw1977]

Considering a lot of car buyers don't even know the engine size of their car anymore, they're not going to know what a brake pipe is, let alone care what it's made of.

So it's understandable that manufacturers spend their money on the things that do appeal to buyers, which seems to be touch screens the size of TVs.

[sierraman]

4 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Probably they don't care about someone buying a 10 year old car, but they should care about durability for second and third owners as it has such an effect on residual values.

What you said about VAG is very true. In fact all the German manufacturers are big on perceived quality, not underlying quality. 

The quantity I see on the hard shoulder puts any argument about ‘German quality m8’ to bed. 

[HMC]

It’s an interesting point re durability. I’m preaching to the converted here but if they built simpler vehicles using higher quality components with a longer service life. That’s surely better from an environmental point of view. Obv ain’t happening as that doesn’t shift new unit sales and finance. Plus it would drive the costs and purchase price up.

[artdjones]

We just owned a base model Mégane for 5 years. When I gave it a good look over after purchase there were some crude details about the trim and body construction that showed some cheapening and decontenting by Renault. But the biggest components by far to need replacing in the five years were the original shocks at 250 k Kms. Everything else lasted fine, even the ball joints and bushings. 

So I'd say it was the opposite of vag. Perceived quality, not tremendous, actual quality, pretty high.

[robinmasters]

https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2020/02/03/fords-lending-arm-generating-profit-ever/41133523/

Quote

Ford Credit, the lending arm that’s become accustomed to propping up the company in good times and bad, now generates about half the automaker’s profit, up from 15% to 20% in the past.

 

[Barry Cade]

2 minutes ago, robinmasters said:

https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2020/02/03/fords-lending-arm-generating-profit-ever/41133523/

 

I remember in the 90s, around the launch of the GM card, some big cheese was quoted as saying "General Motors is a finance company that just happens to make cars."

[Leyland Worldmaster]

I remember moving a new Mk5 Golf. After all the fuss about flock lined glove boxes; damped grab handles and soft feel dashboard mouldings of the Mk4 Golf, I expected brilliant things. 

Was disappointing. Hard plastics, plastic inner door pull thingies and shit like that. Nasty. 😎

[bigfella2]

1 hour ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

I remember moving a new Mk5 Golf. After all the fuss about flock lined glove boxes; damped grab handles and soft feel dashboard mouldings of the Mk4 Golf, I expected brilliant things. 

Was disappointing. Hard plastics, plastic inner door pull thingies and shit like that. Nasty. 😎

That's what put me off my caddy, which is Mk5 golf mostly, just seemed cheap and nasty, never mind needy.

[Noel Tidybeard]

i wonder how many kwalitee german cars have a stainless zorst as standard like the 8th gen civic did?

[sierraman]

4 hours ago, HMC said:

It’s an interesting point re durability. I’m preaching to the converted here but if they built simpler vehicles using higher quality components with a longer service life. That’s surely better from an environmental point of view. Obv ain’t happening as that doesn’t shift new unit sales and finance. Plus it would drive the costs and purchase price up.

I’ll tell the tale of an outfit in the city I live in, Record Tools, they’re still going but only in name. Back in the sixties if you bought a vice from them chances are are you’d still be using it. Nobody ever needed to replace them! Needless to say they couldn’t have won a raffle profit wise so they ended up under Irwin who used the name to put on some vices you couldn’t clamp a shoe together on. 

[Dobloseven]

16 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

i wonder how many kwalitee german cars have a stainless zorst as standard like the 8th gen civic did?

Or our 2002 Renault Master. 

[sierraman]

4 hours ago, artdjones said:

We just owned a base model Mégane for 5 years. When I gave it a good look over after purchase there were some crude details about the trim and body construction that showed some cheapening and decontenting by Renault. But the biggest components by far to need replacing in the five years were the original shocks at 250 k Kms. Everything else lasted fine, even the ball joints and bushings. 

So I'd say it was the opposite of vag. Perceived quality, not tremendous, actual quality, pretty high.

But the times you get told ‘French shit’ by someone with a 3 series which they forget to tell you about the £6,000 engine rebuild at Sytners after the timing chain failed. 

[Botzarb]

I concur with the sentiments here. Ive got an early Mk2 Focus on a March 05 plate, and it is surprisingly solid, doesn't rattle, feels reasonably well put together if quite crude in places.  I looked at a few Mk2.5 models when looking for my one, and the interior and fabrics felt cheaper, and the lighter grey lower dashboard plastics definitely feel a bit more grim. Ive heard the facelift is quieter and has more sound deadening, but the interior seems to have been cheapened from my experience. Don't get me wrong, the interior of my car is not the last word in quality, but for a nearly 18 year old car it's sturdy, inoffensive; and for a car that's main use has been that of a van, held up pretty well. 

Getting into a friends mk4 Focus, quality was not great. The doors are very light (I suppose this is a fuel efficiency thing, and I know weight doesn't equal safety etc.) the fabrics downright cheap, and the plastics did not feel particularly well put together or high quality. Its a shame as I am now quite fond of the Focus, but the quality has definitely taken a dive. I have experience of sitting in a Focus Vignale in a car supermarket, and Jesus that was nasty. Whether it was just an abused example I'm not sure, but it was just a turd wrapped in glitter, cheap feeling, squeaky, nasty car. Its a real shame, as I want to like them more, but I guess in the desire to be ever more profitable and cars needing more and more equipment as standard, something has to give. 

[horriblemercedes]

58 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

i wonder how many kwalitee german cars have a stainless zorst as standard like the 8th gen civic did?

Most of them. Certainly those that I've had did 

 

(2002 Porsche Boxster S, 2003 Mercedes ML and 2005 BMW 3 Series) 

 

All much higher quality in terms of steel and rust prevention than the 2004 Honda Civic Type R I've also had. Particularly the Porsche 

[Matty]

Just now, sierraman said:

I’ll tell the tale of an outfit in the city I live in, Record Tools, they’re still going but only in name. Back in the sixties if you bought a vice from them chances are are you’d still be using it. Nobody ever needed to replace them! Needless to say they couldn’t have won a raffle profit wise so they ended up under Irwin who used the name to put on some vices you couldn’t clamp a shoe together on. 

Got two massive record vices on the benches in the workshop (at work obvs). One as old as the hills, one a new version of the same. Got to say, you're right pal.

[Matty]

Back on topic, I have a mk6 fiesta st. The only car I've ever had where fasteners holding things in streak rust. So a bit cheap and cheerful. However, cars as tight as a drum, no squeaks and rattles interior wise, still goes like stink, no rot to speak of.

Built down to a price it may be, but the buggers 15 year old, its our daily family car and drives like a new un. Do for me will that 👍

[Barry Cade]

1 hour ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

i wonder how many kwalitee german cars have a stainless zorst as standard like the 8th gen civic did?

I always laffed at cars with a "stainless" or "aluminised" exhaust, but with steel pipes or hangers.. 

Always reminded me of the old joke when the man went to the dentist... your teeth are fine, but your gums will have to come out..

 

There's stainless and stainless..

I've not long put a back box on the ex Focus. Original exhaust from 2012. Box was perfect, the mild steel pipe that went into the box had rotted and snapped. 

[Barry Cade]

5 minutes ago, Matty said:

Back on topic, I have a mk6 fiesta st. The only car I've ever had where fasteners holding things in streak rust. So a bit cheap and cheerful. However, cars as tight as a drum, no squeaks and rattles interior wise, still goes like stink, no rot to speak of.

Built down to a price it may be, but the buggers 15 year old, its our daily family car and drives like a new un. Do for me will that 👍

That's what I mean, older Ford's were pretty well put together out of fairly decent materials, not top notch, but you felt as if you were getting what you paid for. Honest. Unpretentious.  Now it's like you're being cheated.

[MiniMinorMk3]

I remember the 1970s, when most cars bodies rusted away after about 5 years, leaving plenty of serviceable mechanical parts for the thriving custom car/kit car markets.

Back in the 1950s, the big 4 in the USA kind of invented built-in obsolescence, changing their whole model ranges every year to get buyers to sign on the dotted line.

Poor quality in cars is nothing new, but all makers are chasing the same thing these days, and the accountants and share holders must see a return. Also nearly all new cars feel just the same as any other new car, and the individual marques have lost their individuality.

[Matty]

Just now, Barry Cade said:

That's what I mean, older Ford's were pretty well put together out of fairly decent materials, not top notch, but you felt as if you were getting what you paid for. Honest. Unpretentious.  Now it's like you're being cheated.

Been saying this for years but christ knows what I'm going to run in the future. If I keep buying things at ten to 15 years old, eventually I'll be in the market for a modern misery wagon.

To this end I'm attempting to make the fiesta a car for life. Keep rust poofing the fuck out of it. Outside of that, they don't go wrong much, cheap and easy to mend when they do.

[Barry Cade]

3 minutes ago, Matty said:

Been saying this for years but christ knows what I'm going to run in the future. If I keep buying things at ten to 15 years old, eventually I'll be in the market for a modern misery wagon.

To this end I'm attempting to make the fiesta a car for life. Keep rust poofing the fuck out of it. Outside of that, they don't go wrong much, cheap and easy to mend when they do.

It'll be the hardware and software that will take newer older cars out . I still have a dedicated laptop for older diagnostics and info. It works fine but Microsoft stopped all support for it. The radio reception on my newly purchased Seat is terrible... seemingly common issue with the aerial base. Took it apart for a look and the amplifier circuit board is all corroded and green. Tried to clean it up and resolder but no joy.. a new one is 85 quid...  can't even use a coat hanger..  😒 

[Matty]

Just now, Barry Cade said:

It'll be the hardware and software that will take newer older cars out . I still have a dedicated laptop for older diagnostics and info. It works fine but Microsoft stopped all support for it. The radio reception on my newly purchased Seat is terrible... seemingly common issue with the aerial base. Took it apart for a look and the amplifier circuit board is all corroded and green. Tried to clean it up and resolder but no joy.. a new one is 85 quid...  can't even use a coat hanger..  😒 

Here's the answer. 55 and still rocking in the free world. Out on errands yesterday and just on the button reliable. 🤣

 

Very tongue in cheek obvs, but if you are handy and can weld, old cars just make a lot of sense. It breaks, mend it and cart on

[Bren]

I noticed with late 90's ford's they stopped painting the engine compartment properly - just primer and patchy topcoat.

[sierraman]

Let’s not forget the Mk1 Mondeo wasn’t perfect quality, they all pissed water in, the suspension arms you were lucky if you got 20,000 out of them and they rotted like last weeks fruit from Aldi.