Rover 827 update.... MOT achieved ... daily driver?

[Marina door handles]

0

 

End up on my drive way, say hello to my new pet ROVER 827 Sterling..

I just need to clear some space in the garage to give it a bit of a check over before I risk an MOT.  Its brakes are very spongy and are not right, a service would be a good idea and just to make sure there is nothing else amiss. 

 

[hairnet]

so it had to have rover in the name

 

[tommytwo]

As the long term owner of an 820SI,  I approve. Best to get the brakes pressure bled. Its possible to get a firm pedal with other methods but its a bit hit and miss due to getting air trapped in the ABS modulator.

Enjoy your car, it looks very tidy.

[Marina door handles]

The weather cheered up slightly so I pulled the Scimitar out of  the garage, empty the pit of water again... and see if the Rover will fit?

Swap over time..

George having just finished snorting about 7 gallons of silty water.

It fits! 

Pit access wont be possible with the garage door shut though unless you are Eugine Tooms.

But hey if I need pit access I can open the door an roll it back a bit so no problem really. Tomorrow when I have recovered from all this I can start looking at the brakes and have a general prod around. Quite excited about this really.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brownnova]

Hatchback is always best! 
Well bought! 

[Marina door handles]

I forgot to mention it comes with some paper work..... an owners manual a Haynes manual an original dealer brochure and best of all a workshop manual!

Behold the majesty and yes the carpet needs hoovering....

 

That proper workshop manual will make working on it a tad easier!

 

 

 

[808 Estate]

Good buy. A mate had one of those for several years until it ended up being mounted by a Scania on the motorway. 😨

Luckily he walked away from the mangled wreckage, Scania driver was prosecuted and the owners insurers paid out generously.

[hairnet]

1 hour ago, brownnova said:

Hatchback is always best! 
Well bought! 

mouth. out. wash.

[St.Jude]

3 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

George having just finished snorting about 7 gallons of silty water.

He seems happy enough though.

[Marina door handles]

23 hours ago, hairnet said:

mouth. out. wash.

Its a Fastback, honestly cant you tell the difference?!! No me neither...........

[beko1987]

Oooh a George! 

Nice car too m8 etc.. 

 

[Marina door handles]

Things are progressing a tad slowly. I have given the car a fair going over, engine seems to be sweet as a nut, the gearbox will remain a bit of an unknown quantity until I can get it on the road but it goes forwards and backwards no bother. I have found a hole in the very back end of the drivers side sill which  may be an MOT issue, its a bit border line as its in the sill but it is just in the wheel arch and doesn't seem very structural as it has fresh air above it, probably best tackle it with the high voltage tickling stick just to be on the safe side.  The rear of the passenger sill has a couple of patches from some ones previous repairs but seems solid enough.

Tyres are comedy gold,  four different tyres, one is a Conti, good start but then it plummets down to the bargain basement, there is a Mohawk and a Radial K??!! But to make amends it also has a Semprit winter tyre!

I mentioned the brakes are spongy previously, I checked  the calipers first, no leaks, sliders move, one rear has been replaced, maybe it wasn't bled properly afterwards I thought hopefully... Last weekend I tried a bleed, tried my favoured  solo method,  reverse bleeding no good at all. So I dug out my pressure bleeder, the main cap doesnt fit so had to use the universal adapter. I successfully washed the garage floor with brake fluid, fucking useless thing!  The conventional pump the pedal routine was out of the question as my better half had hurt her back.

I did manage to have a complete saga with the wheel nuts they are normal nuts covered in a kind of silver foil outer, over time he outer distorts, it should be a 19mm  but when they get mashed out of shape nothing really fits. After a fight I manged to remove all the nuts, some of the bad ones I have effectively skinned so they are now 18mm nuts and look drab and brown but at least i can get them on and off. 

Gratuitous engine bay shot, Honda made a very workmanlike V6 you are never going to mistake this for a busso are you?

Anyway, I obtained a much better adaptor for my pressure bleeder and my other half's back had recovered enough for some brake pedal bashing, so round 2 of the brake bleed. This time the fluid kept itself in the system, mostly, but the pedal did not improve, looks like its master cylinder replacement time... Minor issue but Master cylinders for ABS equipped 800s appear to be out of stock everywhere. I shouldn't be too surprised really considering its a 28 year old car from a defunct manufacturer, I will have to do some parts hunting.  

If anyone has a good 827 ABS brake master cylinder just lying around that needs a new home please let me know!

 

 

[chrisjvm]

This is the cheapest one on Autodoc,their discounts vary up to 40% off in the week.

[tommytwo]

If you have a hole in the very back end of the drivers side cill, then it is likely to fail the test because its within a cetain distance of a suspension component. Ask me how I know. Not too hard a job to make and weld in a patch.

800 brakes are very hard to bleed. The Master cylinder may be perfectly good and changing it may not make much difference.  This is why pressure bleeding is recommended as air tends to get trapped in the ABS modulator. The problem is that the cap for the master clinder is an uncommon  shape and size. Vacuum bleeding may give you a better result.

[Spurious]

Would it be possible to get a spare cap off ebay, drill it, then mount the pressure bleeder to the right cap? 

[mercedade]

On 29/01/2022 at 22:16, Marina door handles said:

I did manage to have a complete saga with the wheel nuts they are normal nuts covered in a kind of silver foil outer, over time he outer distorts, it should be a 19mm  but when they get mashed out of shape nothing really fits. After a fight I manged to remove all the nuts, some of the bad ones I have effectively skinned so they are now 18mm nuts and look drab and brown but at least i can get them on and off. 

800 wheel nuts are pure shite, exactly as you describe. I bought a set of these, and whilst the 'alloy' look take long to lose their shine, they are solid, 19mm and fit well. The 18mm solution for the de-skinned original is fine until one sticks, because they aren't quite 18mm.

21 hours ago, tommytwo said:

If you have a hole in the very back end of the drivers side cill, then it is likely to fail the test because its within a cetain distance of a suspension component. Ask me how I know. Not too hard a job to make and weld in a patch.

800 brakes are very hard to bleed. The Master cylinder may be perfectly good and changing it may not make much difference.  This is why pressure bleeding is recommended as air tends to get trapped in the ABS modulator. The problem is that the cap for the master clinder is an uncommon  shape and size. Vacuum bleeding may give you a better result.

Was coming here to say exactly this - it's an ongoing issue. My last Vitesse had given the previous owner all kind of grief, and it'd driven him to fit braided hoses all round, but still never quite managed to shift the sponginess - until one day, doing some routine brakework, it just suddenly seemed to go. I was too scared to ever try re-bleeding the system, knowing it would never be that good again. I doubt very much that it's the master cylinder at fault though.

I was also wondering where you'd found an adaptor that gave a good seal! As Tommy says, they're an odd size and none of the kits I've seen fit properly.

At least being auto you haven't got to bleed the clutch system. That is a proper load of balls.

[Marina door handles]

The 18mm skinned nut is a temporary solution, I have replacements on order from Rimmer brothers but they are a bit delayed, not sure were they are made but a lot of things seem to be out of stock until Feb or March...

The bleed adapter I am using is a Draper one, which is a fairly good design with a stepped rubber cone thing which sort of fits in the reservoir's spout and it has a solid metal top so it can't distort, its a bit trial and error but this thing is way more convincing than my old Sealey one which is pretty useless.  Apparently the brakes were okay before the car was sat for a while and then they just went squish according to the PO which as there is no obvious leaks,  mean I strongly suspect a failed seal in the master cylinder.

[Marina door handles]

Another update.....,In a break from painting bits of house, I decided to have a look at the crusty sill end. As is always the case the hole was bigger than I remembered and when I started prodding the lower section of  the wheel arch sort of broke up.... 

Its a tad manky, so at this point I got busy with a wire wheel on the grinder and went on the attack...

Okay its not pretty but its all fixable, I have started with the cardboard templates but at that point pretty much ran out of time, so its business as usual crap photos and little progress.  I might do some proper metal work next weekend. 

In other news I was reminded that the horn needs to work for the MOT, I hadn't checked that so thought I best try it. Oh surprise it doesn't work, so that's another job to add to the list.

 

 

[Marina door handles]

Rust update....  I have been hard at work over the last couple of weekends, lots of head scratching, lots of c.a.d, lots of chopping bits of metal from my stash, and a bit of metal inert gas zappy sparky thing. Pro metal workers, body shop peeps and welders please look away!

 

 

Just needs fillering, job jobbed right? Wrong, it seems I missed a bit. Looking further down the sill I noticed the edge looked a bit crumbly. Trying to view the car how an MOT tester would and prodding a bit harder , I made a further grim discovery. Further prodding revealed this...

 

Seems as though water had been sitting in  the sill for a long time rotting it out, further cutting and digging revealed this.. I do wonder if the other side is just as bad?

This is going to get complicated but it wont stop me getting the car back on the road, it might just take a bit longer than planned. Still a bit annoying so much for a quick an easy project...

 

[mercedade]

15 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

I do wonder if the other side is just as bad?

I don't.

 

Good luck.

[St.Jude]

15 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

I do wonder if the other side is just as bad?

The devil makes work for idle screwdrivers.

The road to hell is paved with people checking for rot.

Etc.

[hairnet]

poke poke crunch crunch

hate when that happens

props if you can do that yourself

 

[Marina door handles]

11 hours ago, mercedade said:

I don't.

 

Good luck.

 

Neither do I really, I am 99.9% sure its going to be crispy,  crusty and in need of fresh metal....

[Marina door handles]

1 hour ago, hairnet said:

poke poke crunch crunch

hate when that happens

props if you can do that yourself

 

Thankfully I think I can, famous last words......

[N Dentressangle]

That's a bugger. Still, your welding on the sill end looks serviceable enough!

My motto - filler and paint makes me the welder I ain't

[Marina door handles]

Well its been 9 months ish so time for an update..... 

 

 

No it isn't finished.......

 

 

So by April I had acquired a pair of sills from the Rover 800 owners club. I slowly took the drivers side sill apart, replacing sections of membrane as I went and then tackled the bottom of the B pillar which had become properly crusty. None of these panels are available so it was case of so your best with sheet steel a vice and a bit of ingenuity. 

The B pillar repair was tricky not helped by the original metal seeming to be quite thin even by Rover standards! I created a kind of over engineered triangular bracket which I fitted in place of the missing section. and then sealed up the sides (only the first part of the process shown).

Eventually I worked my way down the sill and also repaired the bottom of the A pillar..

 

 

At this point I checked the calendar and it was about June, so time to fit an actual sill!

The sills supplied are not full size you have to seem weld them into the remnants of the original top sill which is a bear but do able.. It didn't help that the welder broke part way through this process. Something went wrong with the torch so when it got hot it stopped passing gas (rather crucial for a good weld). this took a while to figure out and not being a modern Euro type it was fairly involved replacing the torch.

So now its about August so I started on the other side Yay! (this was supposed to be a quick and dirty get her on the road kinda project but hey ho.........)   I will save you a repeat but it was pretty much the same on the other side.  So here is the other side nearly finished....

Obviously the welder broke down for a second time, this time the wire feed..... I am so tempted to get a nice shiny new one and give up on fixing my old Clarke but realistically the repairs have come in at less than £70 quid so far, which is a lot less than a decent new one....

As you can see late November/early December has been fillering time, to try and make it look presentable .

As ever there is another snag, the passenger side rear wheel arch is crustier than Crusty the clown, you cannot seemingly buy a Rover 800 wheel arch, in theory a Montego one is the correct shape, cant find any of those for sale at the mo either. 

So there you go getting there slowly, maybe by next Xmas...........

 

Please someone remind me , why exactly did I buy this heap?

 

 

 

[St.Jude]

2 minutes ago, Marina door handles said:

Please someone remind me , why exactly did I buy this heap?

Men need a hobby.

Seriously though, and I’ve been there, you’re doing a cracking job regardless of whatever Lady Luck is deciding to take away from you.

[outlaw118]

Just caught up with this; I've said it before, as have many others:
SOME CARS ARE UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS!

 

Doing a lot better than most, keep on chap!

[grogee]

2 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

Well its been 9 months ish so time for an update..... 

 

 

No it isn't finished.......

 

 

So by April I had acquired a pair of sills from the Rover 800 owners club. I slowly took the drivers side sill apart, replacing sections of membrane as I went and then tackled the bottom of the B pillar which had become properly crusty. None of these panels are available so it was case of so your best with sheet steel a vice and a bit of ingenuity. 

The B pillar repair was tricky not helped by the original metal seeming to be quite thin even by Rover standards! I created a kind of over engineered triangular bracket which I fitted in place of the missing section. and then sealed up the sides (only the first part of the process shown).

Eventually I worked my way down the sill and also repaired the bottom of the A pillar..

 

 

At this point I checked the calendar and it was about June, so time to fit an actual sill!

The sills supplied are not full size you have to seem weld them into the remnants of the original top sill which is a bear but do able.. It didn't help that the welder broke part way through this process. Something went wrong with the torch so when it got hot it stopped passing gas (rather crucial for a good weld). this took a while to figure out and not being a modern Euro type it was fairly involved replacing the torch.

So now its about August so I started on the other side Yay! (this was supposed to be a quick and dirty get her on the road kinda project but hey ho.........)   I will save you a repeat but it was pretty much the same on the other side.  So here is the other side nearly finished....

Obviously the welder broke down for a second time, this time the wire feed..... I am so tempted to get a nice shiny new one and give up on fixing my old Clarke but realistically the repairs have come in at less than £70 quid so far, which is a lot less than a decent new one....

As you can see late November/early December has been fillering time, to try and make it look presentable .

As ever there is another snag, the passenger side rear wheel arch is crustier than Crusty the clown, you cannot seemingly buy a Rover 800 wheel arch, in theory a Montego one is the correct shape, cant find any of those for sale at the mo either. 

So there you go getting there slowly, maybe by next Xmas...........

 

Please someone remind me , why exactly did I buy this heap?

 

 

 

Can't get a Maestro arch either. But I did find a couple of sills made to order. When enquiring about the Maestro arch they implied they might be able to do a Montego arch. NB: 14 week lead time...

https://www.classiccarpartsandpanels.co.uk/

[Marina door handles]

1 hour ago, grogee said:

Can't get a Maestro arch either. But I did find a couple of sills made to order. When enquiring about the Maestro arch they implied they might be able to do a Montego arch. NB: 14 week lead time...

https://www.classiccarpartsandpanels.co.uk/

Thanks for that I have dropped them a line.......