E10 Fuel

[brownnova]

Just put fuel in the Saab for MrsB to use tomorrow, it was E10 on the pump. Drove home, no nuns or kittens appear to have been harmed. 

[Fumbler]

I'm running E10 in the BX and Micra as that's all I can really afford with my commute and current pay. As I'm returning to college next week, I might as well bung some Super in with some Redex once I'm there. I doubt I'll drive very far anyway. I've heard that, so long as the fuel is constantly moving and being mixed around in the tank, you should be OK. That isn't to say I think E10 is a good idea, though, because it makes cars less fuel efficient and it can and will cause problems with fuel lines, seals, aluminium... basically everything on my cars' fuel systems (yey). It should be noted that it doesn't immediately condemn your car to death as soon as it goes down the fuel filler neck. It's just more touchy as things go.

What ground my gears rather nicely was hearing on the Radio 2 news yesterday morning that the main backing behind this is that it's "greener" to burn because of the ethanol. I think I also heard a reporter say that ethanol has "no carbon" which is impossible because alcohols are composed of carbon chains in the first place! I also question how it's greener if we have to fill up more often, therefore needing to produce more ethanol, burn diesel getting the crops into the ground, more diesel harvesting it, even more transporting it and then consuming energy to produce the fuel. I'm sure someone, somewhere, perhaps in just the right place, made the numbers add up just right to get everyone on board with the idea.

[Fumbler]

Just now, HarmonicCheeseburger said:

Is their any potions that are not snake oil so older stuff like my 1994 K11 can run E10 without a massive redo of every seal etc?

I'm wondering the same thing, but Nissan made this engine after 2000. Nissan clears all engines after 2000 to run on E10 so I'm confused.

[stuboy]

i just use super unleaded in the v6

[dollywobbler]

Just filled the 2CV with E10 as around here, it's E10 or diesel. Will see how it goes. Planning to use additives in the lesser-used cars on the fleet.

[barefoot]

The 944 has always been noticeably smoother & more economical when I use Super. Presumably all the others will be too now that I'm obliged to run everything on the stuff. 

Can anyone reccomend a fuel saver type snake oil that works, to bung in the tanks when I lay a couple of them up over winter?

[1duck]

all toyotas from 1998 onwards, well looks like a case of not a problem then.

[fraser.innes.3]

The government site does not mention the compatability of my 1982 Bedford CF camper, so I will assume it is ok

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk

[Mr Pastry]

5 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Just filled the 2CV with E10 as around here, it's E10 or diesel. Will see how it goes. Planning to use additives in the lesser-used cars on the fleet.

Will be watching with interest, as I will be filling my 2CV with E10 next time - presumably, as that is what it says on the local pumps.    There is not much rubber in the fuel system so the potential for grief is minimal - assuming the plastic tank doesn't dissolve of course,  which nobody has yet suggested.   Slight question mark in my mind over the fuel pump and accelerator pump diaphragms though.  

I wonder whether it will need a larger main jet as it runs quite weak anyway, and it will be interesting to see whether MPG or power is affected.

Due for a service in 500 miles, so we will see what state it is in then.  I suspect it will all be fine.

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

31 minutes ago, barefoot said:

The 944 has always been noticeably smoother & more economical when I use Super. Presumably all the others will be too now that I'm obliged to run everything on the stuff. 

Can anyone reccomend a fuel saver type snake oil that works, to bung in the tanks when I lay a couple of them up over winter?

Tetraboost?

[dollywobbler]

2 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Will be watching with interest, as I will be filling my 2CV with E10 next time - presumably, as that is what it says on the local pumps.    There is not much rubber in the fuel system so the potential for grief is minimal - assuming the plastic tank doesn't dissolve of course,  which nobody has yet suggested.   Slight question mark in my mind over the fuel pump and accelerator pump diaphragms though.  

I wonder whether it will need a larger main jet as it runs quite weak anyway, and it will be interesting to see whether MPG or power is affected.

Due for a service in 500 miles, so we will see what state it is in then.  I suspect it will all be fine.

 

Various clever folk in the club recommend upping the primary to a 107 jet anyway, so if you've not done that, probably worth it. That said, carbs get leaky with age so actually getting the jetting spot on isn't easy!

[bobdisk]

I have been using Shell V-Power in my BMW E46 323Ci  on and off for ages, depending on if I do a long (50miles +) or Shell unleaded 95 octane for more normal shorter journeys. But in the last 3 months or so I have been using only V-Power, and have recently noticed it is "smoother" and quieter running, and I am now getting 2-3 MPG better.  32 on average, unless I boot it! So I will now be sticking to the super petrols.  

[sierraman]

This is like the millennium bug all over again. 

[808 Estate]

Old MacDonald had a biofuel farm. E 1,  E 1 0

[808 Estate]

Luckily, I've got an oil burner.

[Mr Pastry]

1 hour ago, dollywobbler said:

Various clever folk in the club recommend upping the primary to a 107 jet anyway, so if you've not done that, probably worth it. That said, carbs get leaky with age so actually getting the jetting spot on isn't easy!

Yeah I have spent much of my life as a classic car mechanic sorting out things that are recommended by clever folk in owners clubs.

[Shirley Knott]

Yet to try either of our petrol variants on this stuff yet (2001 V70 and a 2003 Gotlf 2.0). Both are listed as being suitable and TBH I'm not massively worried.

I  might be wrong, but I'm sure I heard somewhere that the Americans have been using E10 for more than a decade... There seem to be vast numbers of Volvos and VAG cars over there still running those respective engines if youtube videos are anything to go by, so that looks promising!

[stuboy]

14 hours ago, 808 Estate said:

Old Macbiden had a biofuel farm. E 1,  E 1 0

 

[Steve79]

6 hours ago, barefoot said:

Can anyone reccomend a fuel saver type snake oil that works, to bung in the tanks when I lay a couple of them up over winter?

Mustie1 on youtube comes up against this regularly on things like garden power equipment in New Hampshire. The stabilisers used turn the fuel to shit and it seems to congeal.

Advice he usually gives is to drain them completely when not in use for long periods.

 

[Ben_O]

I'm still unsure on compatability.

The government website was useless and inconclusive.

Where are folks getting the info from regarding specific compatability.

Mine is a 2000 merc w202 C180. Wonder if that will be ok on E10? Time to fill up tomorrow....

[brownnova]

I’ve read a bit and seen a few videos but nearly all of them are a bit ‘bloke who’s read stuff on the interweb’… However, this morning I came across this video which seems well researched and backed by data about E10… 

Now it’s based on MX5s, but I found it to be very interesting viewing. Certainly put my mind at rest that as long as I’m using the cars E10 should generally be OK. 

[captain_70s]

E10 shouldn't instantly degrade anything, you're already running E5 and that's not causing major rapid damage. 

What'll be interesting is long term effects on cars with NLA carb parts and fuel pumps etc as the rubber diaphragms are eaten by the ethanol, something which will already be happening with E5, albeit slower. Much like the way unleaded petrol will eventually cause damage but over the course of thousands of miles.

I'll probably switch to running Super as the supposed 10% drop in economy by E10 just generally being a bit shit as fuel will pretty much cancel out the savings.

[brownnova]

Figures quoted in the video above are about 1-3% drop in economy… 

[captain_70s]

12 minutes ago, brownnova said:

Figures quoted in the video above are about 1-3% drop in economy… 

Interesting.

I'd not watched the video when I posted. I don't think it'll be the disaster it's supposed to be, it's a media hype train with s side gig trying to sell electric cars to people who can't afford them. I have my doubts about ethanol fuel being any better for the environment when production is intensive and done in countries where environmental concerns are low on the list of concerns.

[cobblers]

[MJK 24]

17 hours ago, sierraman said:

This is like the millennium bug all over again. 

Are we worrying too much?  They’ve had this in France and Germany for years and years.  Are the older car owners over there reporting endless troubles or are they mainly getting on ok?

[Mr Pastry]

18 minutes ago, MJK 24 said:

Are we worrying too much?  They’ve had this in France and Germany for years and years.  Are the older car owners over there reporting endless troubles or are they mainly getting on ok?

Maybe so. Thinking about the 2CV again, millions have been running all over the world for years,  with all sorts of different fuels and little or no maintenance, and generally things have been OK as far as we know.  

[MJK 24]

12 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Maybe so. Thinking about the 2CV again, millions have been running all over the world for years,  with all sorts of different fuels and little or no maintenance, and generally things have been OK as far as we know.  

The easiest solution seems to be E5 super unleaded.  Of course that depends if it is stocked locally. 

I think the biggest potential hurdle may be people such as myself being accustomed to brimming the tank for the 3 month winter lay up.  I think you’d need an additive to do that now or possibly even better, run it dry.

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, MJK 24 said:

Are we worrying too much?  They’ve had this in France and Germany for years and years.  Are the older car owners over there reporting endless troubles or are they mainly getting on ok?

I think we are worrying about nothing. It’s the same when I remember my mum checking all the appliances worked on New Year’s Day 2000. 

[Conan]

In my own observation (with E0 vs. E20, actually, so even more drastic than E5 vs. E10) I found that if your car is modern enough to have coil on plug, the difference in performance and fuel economy is barely noticeable. Less than 1 mpg. But if your car is an older distributor or waste spark ignition the difference would be a bit higher. 3-4 mpg with E20 compared to E0.

 

Unless of course you're talking about my Volvo 850 (which according to the site is compatible since all Volvos post-1978 are). No matter what you put in it, E0, E10, E20, it gets shit fuel economy.

 

If you're already using E5, I wouldn't worry. If it's carb then maybe. I personally use E0 in the for-hairnet Mazda 626. Although not that I haven't already tried E10 in it...