Does AS have a resident Citroen SM? If not, it does now!

[nomiST]

Great video, it's sent me (a committed Citoënist) down a verly long rabbit hole!

 

[tooSavvy]

Subbed...... UPnDOWN eh

Made me up, that

ATB

[Six-cylinder]

Twice I have tried to buy a project SM and failed, do I regret it yes.

Back in the late 1990s working for a commercial interior design company we had a supplier of bespoke furniture who would turn up at our office in a CX Safari, which got my car mad boss and I attention. He also talked about his SM and as the visits went by we pressurised him into arriving in the SM. I got taken out in the SM and was smitten. I left the company and remain friends with my car mad ex-boss and the supplier with the SM who is Brian Cass.

Brian Cass is a long term SM enthusiast and the SM Columnist for the Citroen Car Club and has a tremendous knowledge of SMs. He is also very approachable to chat SMs.

Brian lists a web site www.citreon-sm.uk solely for SMs.

His email via Citroen Car Club is [email protected]

I also have his phone number and will be happy to pass it on if you PM me.

I can’t help feeling like many columnists he would be pleased to have something fresh to say about SMs.

 

I may not have much SM experience but I do have experience of Sodium filled valves on my Gamma. It only ran for a short while (about 100 miles) after a long period of layup before it snapped a valve head off. My view is don’t chance it and pull the engine apart before trying to start it and replace the valves if they are still sodium. I believe non sodium valves are available. Now I must put our BiTurbo back on the road before anything happens to that and its Sodium filled valves.

[richardmorris]

I can’t help thinking that chemists never got to speak to engineers during this experimental* phase of engine design. I think sodium was used as it has low density and good heat conduction, but also low tensile strength and a propensity for exploding in air and water.

[High Jetter]

So, an obvious choice for use in that environment? Hmm...

[Talbot]

12 hours ago, richardmorris said:

good heat conduction,

It was all about the heat conduction.  Sodium filled (more correctly, sodium core) exhaust valves can be 150°c cooler than non-sodium core valves under extreme engine conditions, making valve burn less likely and reducing the risk of dieseling due to the exhaust valve getting so hot it becomes an ignition source.  Sodium core valves were a way to fix a point-cooling issue, and they worked.

The sodium was never relied upon for any strength in the valve, so essentially it means you have a hollow valve stem (and in some cases, part of the head too), which makes the valve quite a bit weaker, hence they can and do eventually fail.

For road use, completely pointless.  Especially these days with better quality fuels, oils and coolants that mean less soot/grot build up in the combustion chamber and better transfer of heat away from hotspots, by an oil that can cope with being hotter without breaking down.

[Asimo]

Sodium cooled valves are still made for certain racing applications. Although modern metallurgy has provided other solutions for adequate exhaust valve life in road use sodium cooled valves do run cooler and can be made lighter.
4 valve cylinder heads make everything easier on the exhaust valve: two smaller valves are much easier to keep cool than one big valve.

[cort1977]

Didn't vauxhall red tops have these in some applications? Don't recall those having a reputation for valve failure did they? 

[Madman Of The People]

Everything you never wanted to know about Allen County, Ohio.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_County,_Ohio

 

Seems an unlikely place for someone to own an SM.

 

[PhilA]

16 hours ago, cort1977 said:

Didn't vauxhall red tops have these in some applications? Don't recall those having a reputation for valve failure did they? 

Austin A-series 1275GT did too. You know, to overcome the massive* power output. "Stellited sodium-filled exhaust valves" is in the book 

Probably just to try stop the thing from running on after the ignition was switched off. 

[somewhatfoolish]

23 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Austin A-series 1275GT did too. You know, to overcome the massive* power output. "Stellited sodium-filled exhaust valves" is in the book 

Probably just to try stop the thing from running on after the ignition was switched off. 

Probably inserted by the motorsport dept for 'homologation' purposes, whether they featured in any engines is anyone's guess.

[Talbot]

17 hours ago, cort1977 said:

Don't recall those having a reputation for valve failure did they? 

Some Sodium filled valves are better designed than others.  They may have had a larger diameter stem, or possibly only a very small amount of sodium in them, which means they can still claim to be sodium filled without reducing the strength of the valve very much.

[richykitchy]

On 5/18/2021 at 10:21 PM, cort1977 said:

Didn't vauxhall red tops have these in some applications? Don't recall those having a reputation for valve failure did they? 

The XU9J4 used in the BX 16v (oh yes, and the Mi16, but nobody ever calls it that...) did, too. I remember learning that my car had them years ago, and having no idea what it meant!

[Skizzer]

The flat four in the Lancia Gamma has sodium cored exhaust valves. Make of that what you will.

I’m just jealous. An SM is top of my want list, with a big gap to all the cars tied for second place.

[Remspoor]

about time this thread was revived.

@richykitchy Have you seen this informative website about American SMs?

https://www.seattlecitroen.net/general-information

[richykitchy]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:54 PM, Remspoor said:

about time this thread was revived.

@richykitchy Have you seen this informative website about American SMs?

https://www.seattlecitroen.net/general-information

I had mate, yes thanks. Although I hadn't read all the way through it, which I've now done. Ended up emailing the fella who runs it and he instantly replied seemingly overjoyed that somebody found his page! I pointed out that a lot of people have (this wasn't my first recommendation) and he's delighted! He and his gang have put tonnes of effort into finding out all the little detail differences, and I've promised him I'll check my findings against his data.

Haven't made too much progress with the car itself, sadly. It's VERY rusty (I hadn't realised how much) so really I need to get some weight out of it so I can flip it over and assess properly. It's now living in a new bay which it has all to itself now, though, which is nice!

[Remspoor]

Resurrecting a derelict Neglected Citroen SM in Canada.

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

WHAT you have an SM?

[Remspoor]

I know this thread is about the SM. I have also watched your YT channel . Now you have purchased  Belmont. Have you watched the episode of Salvage Hunters: Classic Cars? They done up a Citroen D Super5. More TV crap, but they do go to some companies where second-hand parts can be sourced from.

[Noel Tidybeard]

Belmont? Clement surely?

[MantaGTE85]

I like what Richy said he was going to do with Clement the D Super5. Leave the funny paint and patina on top but make it concours underneath to make it safe to use as a daily. Sounds like an awesome plan.

[Noel Tidybeard]

one police force had a Renner Master like taht for surveilance- ratty outside immaculate mechanicals

[richykitchy]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:48 PM, Remspoor said:

I know this thread is about the SM. I have also watched your YT channel . Now you have purchased  Belmont. Have you watched the episode of Salvage Hunters: Classic Cars? They done up a Citroen D Super5. More TV crap, but they do go to some companies where second-hand parts can be sourced from.

Cheers, I'll have a look.

On 8/27/2022 at 12:36 PM, MantaGTE85 said:

I like what Richy said he was going to do with Clement the D Super5. Leave the funny paint and patina on top but make it concours underneath to make it safe to use as a daily. Sounds like an awesome plan.

Concours is probably stretching it, but I want it good and sound underneath, and in the interior. The body will stay as-is, cos I love it.

[LightBulbFun]

Just want to say as im working may through Part 1 of Clement the DS

I really love it! really looking forward to seeing how you can get on with it!

 

there used to be a shabby Grey Citroen DS on a Q plate that lived around here for the first 8~ years of my life, until I managed to convince a family friend of ours to buy it when it went up for sale  which clement reminds me a lot of (previous to it he had a Brown DS which we all loved very much so when we had heard it got sadly written we had to make sure he got another DS!)

as they where the first and only vintage cars I ever travelled in with any regularity until Autoshite 10 years later!, plus as a young lighting enthusiast the yellow and moving! head lamps where fascinating, not to mention the movable suspension! (which for some reason made me think this allowed his car, the DS to float on water LOL)

so I will always be quite fond of the DS! and especially clement for the good times it reminds me of  

[Tartan58]

What can I say - just wow.

Missed this thread first time round but this is fantastic, I would be happy just to have that as a garden ornament.

These are one of the cars that shaped my love of cars, one of my earliest memories is sitting on the floor of my grandparents living room looking at the pictures in an SM brochure that my grandad had.  

One of my biggest regrets is passing up on the chance to knock about in a bronze example for the weekend - the background to that is that for my 30th birthday we hired an E-type for a weekend trip, however the the previous hiree returned it with a borked gearbox so I was offered either a mk2 Jag or the SM, fearing that the SM would likely leave us stranded somewhere I went for the Mk2, I wish I'd just been a bit braver as that opportunity will probably never come about again.