Classic Mini. Alright now ain’t it

[nacho man]

Aup Crew

Mrs T has shown a big interest in having a classic mini. I am all for this. She works from home and only pops out once a week, maybe twice on a 30 odd mile round trip. She will visit work sites, people in it. 

When I say classic mini I actually mean probably a late 80’s early 90’s era one. I can’t afford them crazy prices. 

I have convinced her that a non Cooper is the way to go. I think there a bit too obvious. 

We are going to look at a 1989 998cc black one on sat, it’s a good 4 hr round trip so hopefully we will come away with it. 

Couple of questions, I know rust is the major thing to look for, mechanicals are cheap and easy to sort believe. What else should I look at?

Also this will probably be her only car, I know these are an everyday car that will just need a bit more looking after. I have told her it WILL breakdown, but we have the AA so what more do you need.  There is always normally one other working car on the drive as a backup, she ain’t one bit interested in cars. 

[mk2_craig]

Sounds good, I’m not expert on these things so the only note of caution I’d sound is regarding security. They’re routinely stolen, so investing in some sort of tracker is very wise, but a disklok on the steering wheel is essential. 

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

A 1989 in black? Is it a Mini Thirty?

[BorniteIdentity]

A Mini is a great thing. You can buy literally anything - you name it, it’s available within 24 hours. 

They are a hoot to drive. You won’t care that you’re only doing 50 mph because they have this ridiculous ability to make you feel good at any time and any speed. 

Personally, I had to make peace with one thing. If I crash it, I am dead. No messin. As my friends will tell you, It took me - as a Dad of 4 - a little bit of time to come to terms with that. When that steering column hits your chest, you will want to be dead. 

I’m not being unfashionably pessimistic- just telling you straight from first hand experience. 

I wouldn’t, personally, spend any more than two minutes on the mechanicals. If it’s running then that’s good enough - you can replace anything. 

You want to spend a good 20 minutes on your back though. Sills, subframes, the usual things.

Again, you can buy everything but a nice rear subframe is no longer £50. It’s about £450. 

Still, they are fantastic. Terrible, but lovely and better for it. 
 

[Marina door handles]

A mini may not be safe but, its still safer than any form of two wheel travel and they aren't as flimsy as you would imagine....

This was the result of a low ish speed probably both braking from 30 mph but failing to avoid each other - head on with a Renault Espace. I was rubbery,  less easily broken twenty year old at the time and walked away unscathed. Sure safety has moved on a lot but you are never truly safe in a car (Euro Ncap wont stop you being crushed to death by forty tons of out of control lorry!) its just a matter of degrees. 

[nacho man]

49 minutes ago, Conrad D. Conelrad said:

A 1989 in black? Is it a Mini Thirty?

Sure is. 
 

 

[MarvinsMom]

what to look for on a mini....

rust, rust and more bloody rust! 

they rust all over, everywhere and just for fun.

everything is available for them, mostly, though some of the bits for the late SPi cars (1991-1997) and MPi (1997-2001) cars are no longer available.

from full body shells to interior trim to little bits of trim. on the SPi and MPi cars with the fuel injection and electric ignition some bits are no longer stocked.

but a carburettor car (up to 1992?) is very well served, with everything.

start at the front of the car, is there rust in the seams between the wings and front panel? its unsightly, but can be sorted.

moving back, any rust in the scuttle panel under the windscreen, and in the a-panels behind the wings? that is a twat to repair. the panels are available, but if there is rust there, it will be elsewhere too in the hinge panels, floors and bulkhead of the car, and those areas mean you need to be skilled with a welder, or know a good bodyshop!

look at the bottom of the body, along the sills on both sides. bodging here is legendary! and rife... and if they have welded cover sills over rotten original ones then expect plenty of rot in the inner sills and the floors of the car.

door bottoms rot out, as does the rear quarter panels around the opening side windows.

have a good look along the lip around the roof, this is the seam that fixes the roof and the sides of the car together. the cars can and do rot here as moisture gets trapped under the seam finishers.

open up the boot, and have a close look at the condition of the boot floor, as the shape of this acts as a scoop collecting muck and water, they rot around the battery box, wheel arches and behind the back bumpers. while there have a look at the back subframe, some surface grot is to be expected, but remember, rotten out back subframes still happen even today.

the a-series is a great little engine, and they all leak, to some degree. usually its from the tappet covers on the back of the engine, only on the smaller ones as 1275's don't have those, and also from the rocker box on the top of the engine. the engine should start easy and idle, they do rattle been an over head valve, and do also occasionally blow smoke on start up, but it shouldn't be blowing blue smoke and the like while idling. its an engine that keeps going even when worn, they can be rebuilt though, and if its been looked after with plenty of oil changes then they last well. Rovers say 10,000 odd miles between oil changes which is shit, transverse A's should have fresh oil and filters every 5000 miles, remember the gearbox and differential share oil with the engine, not like a modern engine!

i do love the mini, i really do. i have never ever come across such a charming and flawed vehicle. the morris minor is i think the closest to a mini on the road.

BUT i would not recommend one as an everyday car, not unless you are a car person. they are needy little things, they require regular oil changes, there are grease points in the suspension that want doing every 3000 miles, if you just want to drive it and not do the maintanence tits going to want then it is not the car for you. 

SERIOUSLY-

as the op's misses isn't, then buying a mini for her is not going to be a happy experience. buy her a BINI instead!

and i have 2 real minis, Rodney mini (currently broken)a 74 mini 1000, and Cocopop (also broken) a 97 Mini Cooper Sport!

 

 

[eddyramrod]

Nice to see Rodney, I haven't met him! 

Minis are great fun but more of a toy than a daily these days because the streets have moved on.  You can slip it into all kinds of small spaces but equally, you'll be almost invisible simply because even a Ka dwarfs it.  Invisible doesn't mean intangible though and if you get driven into, you're not going to come off best.  Saying all that though, I wouldn't discourage anyone from getting a proper Mini because they certainly are an experience!

[cort16]

Serious question.  Is it possible to stop them rusting or are there just to many places for water and dirt to get together?

My garage land lord restored years one years ago for his Mrs. All subframes, out back to bare metal. New wings, doors and sills.. All undersealed and resprayed then pressed into daily service (all be it on salty Scottish roads) for a good few years and  is now utterly fucked. Holes in the roof, lights hanging out and everything.

We had an NHS Mini 850 when I was a kid. It would do about 60 flat out but at that speed it felt like 160.

[warch]

1 hour ago, BorniteIdentity said:

Personally, I had to make peace with one thing. If I crash it, I am dead. No messin. As my friends will tell you, It took me - as a Dad of 4 - a little bit of time to come to terms with that. When that steering column hits your chest, you will want to be dead. 

I had quite a big coming together with a Volvo S80 in mine and was very impressed with how well it protected me and my brother. I would have had no injuries if I hadn't jarred my hand on the steering wheel and my brother was fine. The front of the car got smashed in and the subframe mounting bolts snapped on one side but it coped really rather well.

I theoretically ride a motorbike, when it isn't hiding in the shed away from the rain and road salt so these things are relative.

Absolutely agree with your buying advice, but bloody hell 450 large for a rear subframe sounds ridiculous, they're tiny! 

[Mally]

Will be OK on 30 mile round trips, any further the novelty may soon wear off.

They have next to no suspension, noisy,  low.   People steal them.

Can't lose money on a good one, difficult to lose money on a bad one over time.

In addition to things already mentioned check around rear subframe mountings (2 bolts in wheelarch directly in front of rear tyre).

If it's got new underseal near there it's for a reason, poke it with a screwdriver.

Check doors open and close without fouling.  Press hard on inner sills after opening doors.

Wet carpets, wet in boot, wet in pockets at sides of back seat.

You can fix anything, but sometimes there's a lot needs doing.

Having said that I'd probably just kick the tyres and buy it.

Edit,  With the car on level ground, stand back and make sure the back wheels are vertical.

If they lean in at the top the radius arm bearings are worn. (not a deal breaker though).

Just checked £250 a side recon exchange., someone else says £80 though.

You can buy the bearings and shaft cheaper but ideally need a correct reamer.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Mally

[MarvinsMom]

10 minutes ago, cort16 said:

Serious question.  Is it possible to stop them rusting or are there just to many places for water and dirt to get together?

My garage land lord restored years one years ago for his Mrs. All subframes, out back to bare metal. New wings, doors and sills.. All undersealed and resprayed then pressed into daily service (all be it on salty Scottish roads) for a good few years and  is now utterly fucked. Holes in the roof, lights hanging out and everything.

We had an NHS Mini 850 when I was a kid. It would do about 60 flat out but at that speed it felt like 160.

can the rust be stopped? 

well i guess if its never used and kept in the warm and in the dry then i guess it won't rust.

and the japanese cars that i've seen on sale all are rot free,well from what i can see they are rot free......

but for the most part, no.no you can not. its a 1950's design with dirt and water traps, and like everything else from the 1950s,60's, 70's etc they rust, lots!!

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, Danterzza said:

What else should I look at?

The rust, again. Seriously a fun car, but you will need to give it time and love. Great fun. Is that rust under there? Oh, and a magnet might be useful.

[Mally]

1 hour ago, MarvinsMom said:

 

such a charming and flawed  vehicle

 

 

Perfect description, needs to be on a sticker at the back.

[garethj]

2 hours ago, Marina door handles said:

A mini may not be safe but, its still safer than any form of two wheel travel and they aren't as flimsy as you would imagine....

This was the result of a low ish speed probably both braking from 30 mph but failing to avoid each other - head on with a Renault Espace. I was rubbery,  less easily broken twenty year old at the time and walked away unscathed. Sure safety has moved on a lot but you are never truly safe in a car (Euro Ncap wont stop you being crushed to death by forty tons of out of control lorry!) its just a matter of degrees. 

A mate rolled one over and was mostly ok.  Staggering when you look at how slender all the roof pillars are, it looks like there’s more strength in the felt window channels than the A pillar and I’m sure luck played a part but they’re no death machine

[Timewaster]

As everyone has said, massive fun to drive, for a while. 

A cold damp winter commute is a pretty miserable experience though. 

The heaters are utterly feeble and the windows run with condensation constantly.  They are still basically a 1950s car after all. 

I replaced my first one with a Mk2 Cavalier solely on the fact that I turned the fan on and the windscreen cleared in a few seconds. 

I'd never seen that happen before! 

(oh, and RUST) 

[New POD]

They are shit. They were shit in 1959 and they are shit now. 

I say this as a quote my Dad said in 1988 when I bought my first one. 

Between 1988, and 1993 we owned 3. 

A 1974 998 HL 

A 1978 848 

And a 1977 1098 Clubman. 

In 2010 I bought a 1986 998 Mayfair wearing rose tinted specs.

The only good thing about that car was that it kept it's value.  

Yes all parts are available. No they will not be manufactured in a factory with 1959 levels of quality control. They will be from China and manufactured with no levels of quality control. It will breakdown for fun. 

They rust for fun.

I'd suggest your wife needs a mk1 mx5. 

Or a late gen 1 Bini 

Or a retired taxi. 

 

If you must buy one, there a few forums but the Derbyshire Classic Mini owners  Club used to have a good forum. 

 

[New POD]

Oh and when you do crash, you've got to hope the plastic padding which looks like welded steel, and the rust it is hiding is stronger than real steel carefully spotwelded, by Brummies from Northfield and Weoley Castle. 

 

[Dan the van]

As already mentioned,check for rust between the number plates.The rubber suspension cones(the 'springs') collapse over time esp on the front.Service life was 7-10 years and often people don't change them.I ve seen many sitting on the bump stops.And if you're doing anything more than checking levels,take the bonnet off. That safety catch is a vicious bastard.

[nacho man]

Apparently there is 'NO' rust on this one we are going to view, but we will see. 

There is always another car floating about on the drive, so if she doesn't want to use the mini for whatever reason, she can use something else. 

 

[BeEP]

This one's on my watchlist.  If you don't mind the re-assembly and a bit of paintwork it could be a cheap (by mini standards) way of getting a half decent one.  So long as the body is as good as claimed.  And it's SPi, which doesn't have the appeal of a good old SU carb.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Classic-Mini-1275-Sprite-46k-Miles-Easy-Project-Metalwork-Engine-A1/133683028592

[cort16]

I'd be taking one of those floppy weak fridge magnets. They're strong enough to stick to metal but not strong enough to stick to metal with filler in it.

It's a nice easy test as there's some real artisan filler artists out there.

[Egrvalve]

The 998 is a great engine. It will keep up with normal traffic flow in town no problem. You just know about it is all.

Replace the points and condenser with a power spark kit. They are brilliant for 20 odd quid. Fit and forget. Much better than replacing a poor quality condensers every 2 weeks at the side of the road.

Electrical gremlins crop up regularly on mine. They are so simple though it's quick to sort out.

Anything headlight sidelight indicator or horn related is usually the bullet connectors behind the grill in the path of all the road spray. If it's not those it's usually fusebox connections.

Some will have a spray cover that attaches to the rocker cover and hangs down the front of the engine to stop rain getting into the distributor. Its worth improvising something if that's missing.  Years ago it was common to see cars conked out at traffic lights in heavy rain as water had got into the distributor.

They all leak oil.

The length of time it takes between sealing the downpipe to exhaust joint and it to start blowing is 11.2 seconds. When I do it anyway.

I've found as time goes by that other road users attitudes change towards them.

10 years ago the nostalgia was strong and people were happy to see one being driven and treated you accordingly.

I think possibly now there are less people that connect these cars with their past and they are more a slower moving inconvenience to be overtaken at the first opportunity or to pull out of a side road in front of so they don't get stuck behind.  I may be wrong.

Find a mot tester with common sense.

Great things. I love em.

[somewhatfoolish]

14 hours ago, cort16 said:

Serious question.  Is it possible to stop them rusting or are there just to many places for water and dirt to get together?

My garage land lord restored years one years ago for his Mrs. All subframes, out back to bare metal. New wings, doors and sills.. All undersealed and resprayed then pressed into daily service (all be it on salty Scottish roads) for a good few years and  is now utterly fucked. Holes in the roof, lights hanging out and everything.

We had an NHS Mini 850 when I was a kid. It would do about 60 flat out but at that speed it felt like 160.

1. store in a dehumidified space encased in shrinkwrap

2. galvanise the whole thing; there are a lot of curves so it can't possibly* distort.

[Talbot]

5 hours ago, Danterzza said:

Apparently there is 'NO' rust on this one we are going to view,

Whatever the vendor may believe, there is rust in it.  Unless it's just had a TripleRich's Granada style restoration, then there's rust in it.  What matters is how much.

.. and it can be an awful lot.  Check very carefully for clip on/tack on sill covers.  I think most cars with them are now gone, but they create astonishing corrosion issues.  A friend had a mid-80's mini in the mid-late 90's which had had the tack-on over-sills treatment before he bought it.  When it failed the MOT, I looked at repairing it for him.  The sills came off with nothing more than a good yank, and the amount of crusty "jacking" rot that fell out was astonishing.  There was about 10kg of it.  The floors were no longer connected to the rest of the car.

It was scrapped.  The front and rear subframes were removed complete (as that's a quick and easy job to do) but the rest of it was just bridge-fodder.  I'd like to say that was the exception, but apparently many many minis succumbed to this.  It also had barely any rear quarters, no rear valance, barely any boot floor and not a great deal in the way of door bottoms.  On a 12-ish year old car.

[BorniteIdentity]

I think with Minis you have two choices.

 

1.  Restore and use only on the driest of dry days, keep it in a garage and treat it a bit like your best silverware.

2.  Renovate lightly and on a rolling basis, and use as they were in the 70s and 80s.

 

I would like MY Mini to be number 1, but I've come to the conclusion that I would actually enjoy it less.  So, for at least the foreseeable, it stays in category 2.

 

But, for the avoidance of doubt...

12 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Whatever the vendor may believe, there is rust in it. 

That is all you need.  I've been driving 21 years now, and have never seen a Mini for sale that doesn't have some - somewhere.

[Talbot]

3 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

I've been driving 21 years now,

Surely it's about time you had a rest stop.

[Egrvalve]

As @Talbot and @BorniteIdentitysay, they all have rust somewhere. Even when they don't have rust they have rust.

 I don't use mine in the winter because of the salt. It's not a show car. It's tatty but clinging onto roadworthiness.

Mechanically most things can be done by a competent diyer which is useful as finding garages that properly know what's what are getting rare.

There's plenty of specialists but I imagine they make their money doing full rebuilds and boring them out to 1380 etc.

Personally I just want to drive mine because they're so good to drive. I don't want an ornament wrapped up in cotton wool.

Did I mention I love em?

 

[Egrvalve]

Oh and by the way the mini forum is very good. 

There are some very knowledgeable people on there and not in the pub expert way. They are very helpful too.

A few good you tube channels for working on minis too.

[warch]

I always fancied one of those Minis with the carbon fibre shell. Although I expect even a carbon fibre Mini would still have a bloody good go at corroding somehow.