The grumpy thread

January 31, 2018

Gents,

Ask yourselves this. If someone paid you decent money to walk about Formula 1 grids carrying a board saying "Bottas" or "Grosjean", would you do it? And if the audience were female would you consider yourself being exploited by the audience, or would you be thinking "ha suckers!"

It's a tricky one isn't it? As Louise says the sports would in no way be affected by the inclusion or exclusion of the women involved. I don't know anyone prepared to pay hundreds for a seat at Silverstone just to look at the grid girls, and I wouldn't have thought Darts fans sole motivation was to look at the women.

Cheerleading though - pretty much a part of the US sports "Razzamatazz". Would Football and Baseball be quite the same without them? Maybe that's one for the US members as I have no real input to the US attitude but would be curious to know

Personally I wouldn't do it as I don't have the self confidence. So in a way I admire people with the guts to do it.

44,531 · January 31, 2018

Gents,

Ask yourselves this. If someone paid you decent money to walk about Formula 1 grids carrying a board saying "Bottas" or "Grosjean", would you do it? And if the audience were female would you consider yourself being exploited by the audience, or would you be thinking "ha suckers!"

It's a tricky one isn't it? As Louise says the sports would in no way be affected by the inclusion or exclusion of the women involved. I don't know anyone prepared to pay hundreds for a seat at Silverstone just to look at the grid girls, and I wouldn't have thought Darts fans sole motivation was to look at the women.

Cheerleading though - pretty much a part of the US sports "Razzamatazz". Would Football and Baseball be quite the same without them? Maybe that's one for the US members as I have no real input to the US attitude but would be curious to know

Well, this is a problem, because cheerleaders are sexy as. But then, I like them mostly for the tricks, not just eye candy reasons. I certainly don't not appreciate the female form, but I don't like it in the wrong place. I remember when Practical Classics went through a troubling phase of having totty in features for no good reason. No. I'm here for the cars. They don't need dolling up with girls.

January 31, 2018

I remember when Practical Classics went through a troubling phase of having totty in features for no good reason. No. I'm here for the cars. They don't need dolling up with girls.

TBH my reaction to the totty in bike mags is 'get the hell out the way I want to see the bike' so I see your point there.

5,774 · January 31, 2018

It depends Parky, if the decision is purely to "defend" the individuals involved or if it has been done to combat a much wider problem in the treatment of women.

17,069 · January 31, 2018

How many men have been allowed to work as grid boys or walk on boys? How many plus sized people? How many F1 drivers are women? What is the prize fund for the women World darts title?

Women can and should be drivers. Susie Wolff came close with a few Williams testing sessions (pretty competitive, I honestly thought she might get the full time drive) but we haven't had any for quite a while.

Maria Teresa di Philippis ran in the fifties and the cars were much harder to drive then. She was competitive. Lella Lombardi and Desire Wilson did solid jobs, and sadly we lost Maria di Vilotta in a testing crash in a Marussia a few years ago. She was pretty talented. Danica Patrick won races in Indycar, and of course Pat Moss and Michelle Mouton were fierce competitors in rallying. But over the last few decades, that's a tiny number of women participants.

Why don't teams employ women? That's one for the teams, not that many women are coming through the lower formulae so there are fewer to choose from. Anyone who does take a woman driver would gain a LOT of positive press - great for the sponsors, great for the budgets, and with half the population of the planet being of the female variant I would expect great for the fan club subscriptions. I don't know why more teams haven't thought of that.

8,916 · January 31, 2018

Gents,

Ask yourselves this. If someone paid you decent money to walk about Formula 1 grids carrying a board saying "Bottas" or "Grosjean", would you do it? And if the audience were female would you consider yourself being exploited by the audience, or would you be thinking "ha suckers!"

It's a tricky one isn't it?

Not tricky at all. I'm not a big fan of walking, but for decent money I'd do it.

28,730 · January 31, 2018

I've always been effortlessly good at "putting my foot in it" but as time goes by I find I'm getting better and better. Not at avoiding the mistakes; better at making them! Is it because I'm nearly 59, or is it because the world has changed/is changing around me and is leaving me behind?

3,384 · January 31, 2018

Its a tricky one isn’t it

Not really, the crucial point here is that this isn’t some noble quest to get them the vote or equal pay or end tje sex slave trade. It’s mostly just virtue signalling. In order to save a group of people from oppression and degradation I think it’s fair to ask those directly affected whether they consider themselves to be degraded or oppressed and whether they need saving.

Otherwise you’re just getting offended on someone else’s behalf, and while it’s pretty trendy on social media, the rest of the world thinks you’re pretty stupid.

17,069 · January 31, 2018

It depends Parky, if the decision is purely to "defend" the individuals involved or if it has been done to combat a much wider problem in the treatment of women.

Well, this is a problem, because cheerleaders are sexy as. But then, I like them mostly for the tricks, not just eye candy reasons. I certainly don't not appreciate the female form, but I don't like it in the wrong place. I remember when Practical Classics went through a troubling phase of having totty in features for no good reason. No. I'm here for the cars. They don't need dolling up with girls.

How about if the grid girls or darts girls did some acrobatics first? They would then be entertainers rather than eye candy?

I must add I am in no way supportive of the use of women to promote sporting events in case anyone thinks I am trying to justify grid or darts girls - I just think we do hit a moral dilemma pretty quickly

62,825 · January 31, 2018

I think it's wrong to hire ANYONE on looks.

I get the point you're making, but people's physical attributes have been influencing what they can and cannot do in life since the dawn of humanity. It's not just looks - brains and strength and other factors also have an influence, and they are no different to looks inasmuch as they are attributes that people are born with, have done nothing in particular to "earn" and can do very little about.

Someone with an IQ of 75 is unlikely to get a job as a nuclear physicist or make an appearance on University Challenge, however much they may want to. To take a more realistic example, an 11-stone weakling such as myself is unlikely to find employment as a doorman at a nightclub. How is that any different to a girl who's (if you'll pardon the non-PC terminology) a bit fat or a bit of a munter not being able to get employed as a pit girl?

44,531 · January 31, 2018

How about if the grid girls or darts girls did some acrobatics first? They would then be entertainers rather than eye candy?

I must add I am in no way supportive of the use of women to promote sporting events in case anyone thinks I am trying to justify grid or darts girls - I just think we do hit a moral dilemma pretty quickly

That's not a bad shout. Don't gymnasts retire at 18 these days or something? The fellas are pretty good at tumbling too. I'd prefer that to an excruciating grid walk.

I get the point you're making, but people's physical attributes have been influencing what they can and cannot do in life sicne the dawn of humanity. It's not just looks - brains and strength and other factors also have an influence, and they are no different to looks inasmuch as they are attributes that people are born with, have done nothing in particular to "earn" and can do very little about.

Someone with an IQ of 75 is unlikely to get a job as a nuclear physicist or make an appearance on University Challenge, however much they may want to. To take a more realistic example, an 11-stone weakling such as myself is unlikely to find employment as a doorman at a nightclub. How is that any different to a girl who's (if you'll pardon the non-PC terminology) a bit fat or a bit of a munter not being able to get employed as a pit girl?

I can see where you're coming from too, but these are people who have to hold a stick. Looks shouldn't really come into it, unless you're making the point that they must be pretty. Which is rather the point. Why must people holding sticks be pretty? If a female driver did make it to F1, why must she stare only at a female arse?

January 31, 2018

If a female driver did make it to F1, why must she stare only at a female arse?

I forget which championship it was but a female driver only had grid boys & I'm sure I saw her use that as the reason in an interview.

8,354 · January 31, 2018

So if the girls can't be pretty then I can't have a mint car? Shall I let my lawn grow out? Fuck it, I won't shave anymore either. My settee needs replacing, I shall just dump it in the front garden. Nothing need be aesthetically pleasing anymore.

As for the nice Asian family locally who cook the most beautiful smelling food, then I shan't ask them anything about the country they are from or what food they are cooking as that would be racist. We are all the same. Right?

40,060 · January 31, 2018

I think Lynx has got into trouble for its ad campaigns in the past. Or maybe it was just people complaining about ~~the stench of Musk...~~ smelling like a teenager...

FTFY.

44,531 · January 31, 2018

So if the girls can't be pretty then I can't have a mint car? Shall I let my lawn grow out? Fuck it, I won't shave anymore either. My settee needs replacing, I shall just dump it in the front garden. Nothing need be aesthetically pleasing anymore.

As for the nice Asian people locally who cook the most beautiful smelling food, then I shan't ask them anything about the country they are from or what food they are cooking as that would be racist. We are all the same. Right?

Wow. That escalated pretty swiftly. How on earth did you manage to make that leap?! Amazing.

17,069 · January 31, 2018

That's not a bad shout. Don't gymnasts retire at 18 these days or something? The fellas are pretty good at tumbling too. I'd prefer that to an excruciating grid walk.

I can see where you're coming from too, but these are people who have to hold a stick. Looks shouldn't really come into it, unless you're making the point that they must be pretty. Which is rather the point. Why must people holding sticks be pretty? If a female driver did make it to F1, why must she stare only at a female arse?

I think the teams would appreciate having some extra room to work on the cars too - lots to check before a race and the fewer people in the way would probably be welcomed.

The mechanics probably appreciate a good female form of course but doubt any of them ever radio the driver to say

"Lewis, front right is overinflated and rear right is under inflated. Sorry mate, the girl with your stick was quite distracting and we were too busy going PHWOAR! to check the right hand side.....yes I appreciate you are angry but mate, she was hot! Yeah, you definitely would have done! Anyway, mind the corners, the front brakes aren't working either"

January 31, 2018

I think Lynx has got into trouble for its ad campaigns in the past. Or maybe it was just people complaining about the stench of Musk...

TBH I've always thought 'africa' smells of lion shit, which seems to suit somehow.

3,384 · January 31, 2018

You might think it’s wrong to hire anyone on looks, but why shouldn’t being beautiful be a marketable trait? The world judges you on how much it likes looking at you, that’s just an unfortunate fact (well, it’s unfortunate for me being below par). Physical attraction, it’s nature, it’s at least part of the basis for every relationship on earth and crucial in the continuance of our species. Trying to deny it or change it is delusional and doomed to failure.

People are not all equal and trying to force the world to treat them as such is preposterous. There are far more worthy causes to expend your humanitarian efforts on than some grid girls making a ton of money because god made them pretty.

8,354 · January 31, 2018

Wow. That escalated pretty swiftly. How on earth did you manage to make that leap?! Amazing.

It was meant to be slightly tongue in cheek...

44,531 · January 31, 2018

Ah, dangers of the internet. Lost in translation.

17,069 · January 31, 2018

You might think it’s wrong to hire anyone on looks, but why shouldn’t being beautiful be a marketable trait? The world judges you on how much it likes looking at you, that’s just an unfortunate fact (well, it’s unfortunate for me being below par). Physical attraction, it’s nature, it’s at least part of the basis for every relationship on earth and crucial in the continuance of our species. Trying to deny it or change it is delusional and doomed to failure.
People are not all equal and trying to force the world to treat them as such is preposterous. There are far more worthy causes to expend your humanitarian efforts on than some grid girls making a ton of money because god made them pretty.

Trouble is sex sells, always has.

Take the Calvin Klein underwear ads. Fit bloke, chiselled abs, impressively stuffed package, it's all to create that impression that "this could be you - buy our fucking pants"

Darts girls. Tight blue outfit, William Hill sash. "Look at the pretty lady you pissed up idiots! Yes, she's nice isn't she! Now get your phones out and place a fucking bet so we get some of your cash"

Personally I think a better Pants ad would have been a Bonobo shoving them in a toaster with a wooden spoon which would have been equally memorable. Especially if the strapline said "Buy our fucking monkey electrocuting pants yeah?"

Apologies for the triple profanity. I'm tired. Night all

14,783 · January 31, 2018

Personally I wouldn't do it as I don't have the self confidence. So in a way I admire people with the guts to do it.

My gut is the reason I wouldn't get asked.

3,384 · January 31, 2018

Same here ^

Won’t someone end the discrimination against large guts and let me realise my dream of being a cK model

40,060 · January 31, 2018

I'd do it! I mean its not really that different than when I'm wearing my road bike gear?

I don't think I'd last that long before I'd get fired though. Not only I'm not really pretty enough, but I'd also spend most of the time in the garages chatting to the mechanics and engineers. Plus the fact that an early 30s, slightly bulging man in Lyrca isn't going to be that popular on a F1 starting grid.

.... but 20 to 30 year old men in Lycra is incredibly popular when its branded as Tour De France! Maybe hope yet.

3,384 · January 31, 2018

Show us pics in lycra!

This is an equal opportunities pic request, I would be saying exactly the same of you were a 20-30 year old female

3,526 · January 31, 2018

Women can and should be drivers. Susie Wolff came close with a few Williams testing sessions (pretty competitive, I honestly thought she might get the full time drive) but we haven't had any for quite a while.

Maria Teresa di Philippis ran in the fifties and the cars were much harder to drive then. She was competitive. Lella Lombardi and Desire Wilson did solid jobs, and sadly we lost Maria di Vilotta in a testing crash in a Marussia a few years ago. She was pretty talented. Danica Patrick won races in Indycar, and of course Pat Moss and Michelle Mouton were fierce competitors in rallying. But over the last few decades, that's a tiny number of women participants.

Why don't teams employ women? That's one for the teams, not that many women are coming through the lower formulae so there are fewer to choose from. Anyone who does take a woman driver would gain a LOT of positive press - great for the sponsors, great for the budgets, and with half the population of the planet being of the female variant I would expect great for the fan club subscriptions. I don't know why more teams haven't thought of that.

Davina Galica(?) did a couple of seasons in the late 70s, I think?

12,525 · February 1, 2018

I don't recall the actual BTCC event... It is on one of the DVDs.

Massive off + Tbone....

Fairly 'portly' female [helmet on] stomps over to 'our guy' and the in-car vid is running...

Wrenches door open "what the *bleep* you think you doing?"

Fucking Classic lolzz

TS

19,924 · February 1, 2018

I try my hardest to see the best in all of humanity, but . . .

2b8754fe-58bf-41ba-8739-697a3474e86b.jpg

Is that now not an AX Picasso?

(Too soon? .. i'll get me coat)

131,003 · February 1, 2018

Eddy, you are right to hold these views because that is/was the world you (and I, besides countless others ) have grown up in.

Unfortunately we are not to think this way any more, at least not in print or any other recorded fashion. Living today is, for me, quite literally the same as being banished to a foreign country. In exile, in fact. We are never going to change this and all we can expect for our reactions is censure. I am extremely fortunate to circulate in a small part of life that is not having any of it but it doesn't unfortunately extend to the majority of the time/space continuum in which I have to live.

In short, mate its all fucking bollocks now.

The world (or era) some of us grew up in also included racism, homophobia and all kinds of other things. Doesn’t mean it was right and doesn’t mean they should be ignored now.

February 1, 2018

I don't recall the actual BTCC event... It is on one of the DVDs.

Massive off + Tbone....

Fairly 'portly' female [helmet on] stomps over to 'our guy' and the in-car vid is running...

Wrenches door open "what the *bleep* you think you doing?"

Fucking Classic lolzz

TS

Russell Chicane, Snetterton, BTCC 1991.

Jonathan Palmer was on the receiving end of Nettan Lindgren's outburst after he used his E30 M3 to punt her similar car off.

I was in the crowd at that bend that day, and Lindgren got the biggest cheer of the day by a country mile.

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