The oldest Land-Rover Series 3 around - new boots arrived

[mat_the_cat]

On 1/5/2023 at 2:14 PM, DeanH said:

Do you have any recommendations for LR forums to keep an eye out on for a reasonably priced rolling project? Ideally early S3 ish.

I've got absolutely no idea, sorry - I'm not part of the LR 'scene'!  I'd guess you'd probably get less chance of a bargain in such circles as everyone is likely to know the value, so anything which really is a bargain will get snapped up straight away.

There's a job I've been meaning to do for a while, but had never got round to it, which was this:

Rocker cover is dead easy to remove, just 3 screws, and I was pleased that the top end of the engine seemed pretty clean.

They were mostly slightly wide, with a couple noticeably wider which may explain the faint valve clatter I could hear. Easy to sort, and the rocker cover was replaced with a new gasket. Self-adhesive on one side which made it easier to install.

The engine seems a touch quieter, although I now notice the exhaust to manifold joint is chuffing slightly. so another job on the list! Then on to a more minor job. I'd noticed a few holes in the slam panel...

...and a bit of Googling showed I was missing a warning plate - fortunately there's loads of places selling reproductions of seemingly varying quality. The one I bought seemed fine, and the holes lined up perfectly which was satisfying

[mat_the_cat]

Bugger. A simple gasket replacement has spiralled somewhat.

And the rest of the exhaust is shockingly bad for 2 years and 3k miles!

[lexi]

Probably better just put another cheap one on and paint it with high temp aluminised paint.  I used to put double S stainless on, but I bet they are a few quid.

[mat_the_cat]

Trouble is, that won't stop it rotting from the inside out, so I am leaning towards a stainless system. It's patched up for now, so the manifold is the next concern. New ones under £100 so not disastrous, although think I'll fit stainless studs to it to prevent a repeat.

Then a couple of months to decide what to do with the full system, as it feels like it's on the verge of being beyond patching. I really struggle to see how they made it last so badly!

[Talbot]

4 hours ago, mat_the_cat said:

shockingly bad for 2 years and 3k miles!

Probably one of the cheaper pattern ones that aren't anything more than mild steel.  No plating, nothing.  They rot both from the inside out from condensation and from the outside in due to them rusting the moment they're fitted.

A full stainless exhaust was £150 about 20 years ago.  I'd expect that to be nearer £500 these days with inflation and cost of stainless these days.  That said, the one I helped fit 20 years ago is still on the vehicle looking as new as it did 20 years ago, so if you plan to keep the vehicle long-term, it will be the only exhaust you ever buy.

[mat_the_cat]

45 minutes ago, Talbot said:

Probably one of the cheaper pattern ones that aren't anything more than mild steel.  No plating, nothing.

I think you're right. It was visibly rusting after only a couple of weeks, and is so thin it doesn't take much to perforate it. Plus it doesn't even fit all that well - it contacts the chassis occasionally under the seatbox, and sits very close to the rear tyre (although 7.50s don't help).

One of the other manifold studs has sheered clean off, as the diameter had waisted quite significantly. Repair involved lashings of exhaust paste, a stainless nut & bolt, and two jubilee clips...

[mat_the_cat]

I've bitten the bullet and ordered a new stainless system, plus a manifold. New ones were under £100 which was less than I expected, but I found a used one for £55 which already had been fitted with stainless studs. Just waiting for bits to arrive now! With the aid of an old parts diagram I've pieced together the fasteners etc I may need, as all the fitting kits I could find online were only partial kits.

I'd rather have everything I may need beforehand, given the low cost of the bits and the likelihood of something snapping! I've stopped short of a HG too but have a slight worry that it'll have to come off for drilling out the studs. For future reference the parts list (some numbers have been superseded) is as follows:

Stud 247144 x 2 (top either side of middle)
Stud 564574 x 1 (middle top)
Bolt BH605221L x 4
Bolt BH605161L x 2
Bolt SH605091L x 2
Nut (brass) RTC3629 x 3
Thin washer 587405 x 5
Thick washer WA108051L x 4
Spring washer WM600051L x 11
Clamp 564308 x 2
Manifold to head gasket 274171 x 1
Manifold to manifold gasket 247824 x 1
Lock plates 596490 x 2 (not required IMO if you're using lock washers)

It also seems like there should be a heat shield present, which may have helped with the fuel vapourisation issue last year. I'll either buy or make something up, depending on cost (I'm certainly not paying £80 for a new one!!)

EDIT - thin and thick washers now corrected...

[High Jetter]

"I think you'll find..." You've got yer thick n thin washers the wrong way round. Sadly, some of those numbers are familiar to me from my days in parts. Always remember 604148 as a Rover fuel filter...

[Crackers]

That parts list could be useful... Dad's in the middle of changing the manifold gasket on his at the moment so if something goes Pingfuckit then I'll forward him your list, though he's pretty much only been able to do one bolt every few days because of his back. 

 

Also, there's no heat shield that I'm aware of, but of course it could just be missing! 

[mat_the_cat]

1 hour ago, Crackers said:

Also, there's no heat shield that I'm aware of, but of course it could just be missing! 

I wonder if it's usually always rusted away? Found an old photo online though.

Given that it only suffered twice last year when the ambient was around 30°C *and* I'd done a lot of low speed work immediately before switching off (=high underbonnet temperatures and less fuel flow), its absence probably isn't a massive problem. Only ~£20  from Dingocroft so may as well though.

https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Heat-Shield-2-25-Petrol-587095.html

If there's any bits that Father @Crackers needs and I've got them left over, happy to stick them in the post.

[High Jetter]

9 hours ago, Crackers said:

That parts list could be useful

Can't remember which LR this is, but I haz catalogues for Ser 11, 11A, 11B, and 111 if you need any numbers.

[mat_the_cat]

This is the bodged manifold, which is attached to the downpipe with one stud, one bolt and a lot of hope! I've packed with paste and held it all in with a jubilee clip.

My used manifold arrived, and the studs which join it to the inlet manifold were (accurately) described as showing signs of wear, but the seller included a new set of studs. I took that to mean they didn't want to risk shearing one off before selling it! Two came out reasonably easily, but they had necked down quite considerably to I was very wary of snapping them off, especially as the last two appeared at one with the manifold.

I could have just left them, but with a packet of new studs in my hand the temptation was too strong. With plenty of heat and gentle persuasion they came out intact...phew!

New studs were screwed in with the aid of copper grease, but I'm under no illusion that future removal will still be equally stubborn!

The downpipe studs had already been replaced with stainless, although I've added brass nuts rather than stainless. I've had experience of stainless on stainless fasteners galling before, albeit at higher temperatures than I'd expect on an exhaust, so I'm playing it safe.

I only hope that the manifold to head fixings all come out, as I don't really want to be taking the head off (even though it looks to be about as simple as they come).

The heat shield is now here too, but I'm obviously waiting till the manifold swap to fit it.

One more minor job I've sorted is the seatbelt mountings. I'd assumed these were standard fixings, athough I was concerned they wouldn't be up to much in a crash.

But @Talbotpointed out the proper mounts were fitted by the B pillar, which is a stronger area, as well as putting the belt in the correct orientation relative to the upper mount. The part number I required was MRC4692, which I found for sale at a mere £220 a pair! I made my own up with a pair of universal plates, at around £3 a side. You can see that the reel is now in a more natural position compared to the other side.

Lastly a bit of smugness! I've been moving some firewood around on a small trailer, and have fitted a front hitch for maneuverability. Hitching up solo yesterday I was chuffed to get out and find I was 'close enough' at the second attempt

[lexi]

Can't beat a front hitch. Had them on the Landy's , a Nissan Patrol and even on my old Xantia and C5 Citroens.

[mat_the_cat]

Yes, it really helps with getting into tight spaces, especially with the poor steering lock on the Land Rover. It's also a pain to catch my knees on when working on the engine!

[mat_the_cat]

As I keep mentioning, I was worried I'd snap another stud, especially this one:

But in the end it came undone in a bit of an anticlimactic way! I just gave it a testing tap with a spanner, and it cracked loose straight away. So I figured I may as well start the job. A few minutes later it was all off, and new studs in.

Then manifold back on, which took a bit of jiggling.

I could then move on to the exhaust. Quality seems OK, not top notch but better than the old one. That didn't even fit particularly well, as the tailpipe was very close to the rear tyre.

And the PO had to make up an additional bracket to fit it to the chassis mounts!

But it still knocked on the chassis on startup and switching off, as I realised when taking the gearbox out.

The new one went on pretty easily, with more clearance all round...

...and attached to the new manifold.

Awaiting the first startup, but I need to cut out a new carb gasket, and I've come inside to warm up!

[mat_the_cat]

Last night I finished the job, including the fitment of the heat shield. I'm not sure how effective it'll be, but we'll see...

Time to fire it up, and check for leaks.

Oh. Aside from the engine sounding rather clattery on video, the new exhaust does sound different, in real life too. Gone is that A Series-esque fruity rasp, to be replaced by a deeper tone. I'm not immediately taken with it, but will wait to see what it's like whilst driving, if I can hear it at all over the wind noise. There does seem to be a bit of resonance at idle, which disappears when you raise the revs.

 

[lexi]

Yes, I remember the double S sound was "different". 

Good work in this freezing weather.

[N Dentressangle]

Good call. Did all the same to my Series 3 a year or so ago, having had the previous Shitpart exhaust rot faster than a tuna sarnie.

I like the sharper sound the stainless exhaust gives it, although sadly it's no faster 

[mat_the_cat]

I did notice that the carb gasket was around 3mm smaller all the way around the opening, so that can't have helped! Should be doing 50 or so miles in it tomorrow, so will be interesting to see.

[mat_the_cat]

No difference in performance, or noise behind the wheel TBH. It was put to use in the sunshine this morning shifting a small trailer.

But then we got a dusting of the white stuff!

And for a change it was actually cold enough for it to settle, a few heavy flurries too.

I didnt think it was that bad, but I got back home to find the road had been closed. I guess the fresh snow is fine, but it'll be a different story once compacted down and turned to ice.

[mat_the_cat]

I've had a birthday recently, and got some alpine windows for this as a present Something I'd been thinking about but never bitten the bullet.

Trouble is, I've now got to cut two holes in the roof! And I'm not sure exactly where. To me, the position they are in on an 88" Series doesn't look quite right:

On a 90" Defender, they look better to my eyes:

So I could just go for where looks right. But then if I ever decide to get a headlining, it will probably mean they're in the wrong place! I probably won't (as they're a lot of money), but I just don't want to regret it later...

Is it just me? Do the 90s look better positioned?

The other thing which is on the cards at the moment is the rear diff. Having a quieter gearbox does highlight the fact that it is a bit rumbly, especially on the overrun. It certainly doesn't give the feeling that it's about to explode any minute, but is mildly concerning (and yes, there is oil in it even though there's none leaking out!)

[LightBulbFun]

I defo think the 90's positioning looks much better!

on the 88 the way it sits behind main rear windows bug the crap out of me, looks like someones set it too far back, and that it should be lined up with the main window when its not!

[High Jetter]

I'd say there's a reason why it's like that on the 88. Maybe to do with the sloping roofline? Looking at yours though, the roof is more like the profile of the 90?

[twosmoke300]

Or where it fits between strengthening spars maybe ?

[Sunny Jim]

As you haven't changed the thread title I logged on thinking, oh no, his new exhaust has failed!

Great birthday present, another vote for the 90's position for the alpine windows here.

[mat_the_cat]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:43 AM, twosmoke300 said:

Or where it fits between strengthening spars maybe ?

Give that man a doughnut! Hopefully I'd have had the foresight to check before actually cutting, but I wouldn't have put it past me to make an expensive mistake

I'd made made up my mind I wasn't keen on the standard 88" position - it might be the 'correct' way to do it but I'm not doing this for resale value, just how I want it. However it looks like the 90" position will cut into a support strut, which stops me centring it perfectly on the lower window. But I think I can still locate it so it looks better...

[Asimo]

Fit the alpine windows where you want them and then move the ribs. Like this guy.

 

[Supernaut]

On 15/01/2023 at 21:52, mat_the_cat said:

 

 

 

That really does look odd going through the leaf spring. Even the exhaust on my dad's S1 goes behind the leaf.

However, that's where the mount is, so it can't be wrong.

[Kiltox]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:17 PM, mat_the_cat said:

I've got absolutely no idea, sorry - I'm not part of the LR 'scene'!  I'd guess you'd probably get less chance of a bargain in such circles as everyone is likely to know the value, so anything which really is a bargain will get snapped up straight away.

There's a job I've been meaning to do for a while, but had never got round to it, which was this:

Rocker cover is dead easy to remove, just 3 screws, and I was pleased that the top end of the engine seemed pretty clean.

They were mostly slightly wide, with a couple noticeably wider which may explain the faint valve clatter I could hear. Easy to sort, and the rocker cover was replaced with a new gasket. Self-adhesive on one side which made it easier to install.

The engine seems a touch quieter, although I now notice the exhaust to manifold joint is chuffing slightly. so another job on the list! Then on to a more minor job. I'd noticed a few holes in the slam panel...

...and a bit of Googling showed I was missing a warning plate - fortunately there's loads of places selling reproductions of seemingly varying quality. The one I bought seemed fine, and the holes lined up perfectly which was satisfying

Anyone else find it hilarious but not in the slightest bit surprising that there’s a warning about welding the vehicle? 😆 

[mat_the_cat]

I didn't fancy moving the roof strut, as it was spot welded to the roof. So I decided to line up the alpine window with the rear edge of the lower window. All marked out 4mm larger than the glass:

No going back now!

With a fair bit of force and soapy water I got the glass into the seal, then it was a case of fitting the locking strip into the seal. I've done these before with just a screwdriver and thumb, but this time have bought the proper tool.

You have a loop which teases open the slot in the seal, then a roller which pushes the strip into the slot. Much easier, although the ends were still tricky!

First side took around an hour to fit to the hole, and I'll hopefully do the other side tomorrow (actually today). But pleased with the way it looks.