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MK1 BX16 TRS 'SE' - Make it or break it, a tale of neglect and fondling

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NOVA done yesterday - thanks for reminding me sir lanciamatt.

It has an SE badge on the back, it looks the same font/style as the other badges. Im unreasonably excited by this, never seen SE as a trim level before and google has no answers...

Is clean(er), is less dented but is dark, piccies tomorrow. Much arousal!

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I had an hour or two spare after work last night, so thought i'd give her a preliminary wash, it really isn't that bad. The roof and some of the flat surfaces have some weird almost glue like granular substance on them - it comes off with a scrape but not sure if this is lacquer or some other shit that's built up - it's only on the half of the car that wasn't under the eaves of the industrial unit it was stored against. The other sheltered half has waaay better paint, although it had more algae and shit.

Ok, as promised - slightly shiny pictures! So any idea what a TRS 'SE' is? Im hoping it's some sooper dooper rare posh model as the badge looks the same as the proper Citroen font, although all black, but could just as easily be an aftermarket bling* addition.

zCYNuRCh.jpg

I even managed to pull the dent in the drivers door out a little, it still needs fettling from the inside but is way better than before. Very thin metal on these, it kept popping back in after I pulled it out. (!)

njXX9MZh.jpg

Incorrect rear bumper is bothering.

HWAVflDh.jpg

Looks SO very differetn whennot covered in algae and shit, non?

82eYKuYh.jpg

This tyre goes flat in a couple of days, not surprising as it's cracked and split AF. TBH im surprised the other tyres all hold their air.

saChh5Dh.jpg

So that'll be all untill tomorrow. Hopefully I can get her running tomorrow and see what is what - the deciding factor of make it or break it, I don't really want to spend too much more on her as she already owes me £850, unless the MOT doesn't need much... I must get some work done today, got a prty at half 6 tonight and i've got 3 essays left to write until I finish this 'Registration Portfolio', which allows me to become HCPC registered and move on up at work - I start the new role on 16th August so can easily finish before then. Laters.

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France had more special editions, and also more dealer specials* than us. Could be the dealer plonked an SE badge on it as it has a/c and alloys. The interior apart from that is pure TRS.  My Dad's first BX (C383 HFM I think) was a 19RD. The T gave you the smoked plastic C pillar and the alloys I think.

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27 minutes ago, bangernomics said:

We came back from Brittany yesterday with an empty trailer! May be able to do a sensible cost collection in August if you don’t get sorted out.

Thanks buddy, but got it sorted in the end. Still awaiting the outcome of the court case against the first 'transport provider', in the fabled words of Rhianna "Bitch better have my money..."

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Also don't listen to people that say you can't put the later gas ( R134A) in older systems, you can but you just need to buy some adapters to screw onto the charge points. Some people say you need to change all seals etc, I didn't when I converted my thema to later gas and its still ice cold a few years later. The gas quantity is different though, think its R12 quantity plus 20% extra. 

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So, not only does it run, but it lifts, drives, stops and everything! Of course, the a/c doesn't work but that's ok as when I remove it i'll fettle as we go - fingers crossed it isn't completely borked! Although it does run, there is a missfire whenever you touch the throttle or choke (both of which are stiff AF) and it'll likely die, it idles ok apart from stalling every now and then. I hope it's ignition related as that's easy to fix, if she's going on as a whole car then new sparkies, HT leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm will be required anyway - but my hunch is it's fuel related - something odd going on with the carb/manual choke or something, this would be less good as I know fuck all about carbs! Especially as this one seems complex, with extra a/c and automatic gearbox stuff attached. I took some videos that I will see if i can upload.

This wee spade connector was disconnected, which im sure didn't help matters in starting it. There is a fair bit of naked copper too which probably isn't ideal, but not causing an issue yet.

kLlRUJCl.jpg

The engine/gearbox earth cable (what is left of it) was also disconnected. Once this was fixed, and the spade on the starter motor, it cranked away like a good'un :D

LDHB0wll.jpg

BFO BATTERY! No chances taken here! There wasn't much cranking required once fuel had been pumped up them dry lines to be fair. There is no air filter, and the air feed pipework is borked, so that will also need replacing (or bodging!).

J8eMsFSl.jpg

Fuel leak! Was pissing out of the bottom of the fuel filter, culpirt - a perished hose, so trimmed and replaced. At least I know the fuel pump is working well, filter looks quite clean too which is a bonus.

bskzSHBl.jpg

SHE LIVES! SHE RISES! Cough cough SHE SMOKES! But only initially, it soon cleared.

Z8Y5VNQl.jpg

Uploading videos next.

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Yes! Figured out how to do this video shiz. It'd been running for about 5-10 minutes at this point so was warm-ish maybe, the oil was on the max mark and the coolant was nicely topped up and very blue - all without me doing very much. I think the ignition side of things will need looking at and at the least, a bit of lubrication of the throttle cable and choke cable, these were both very stiff and if touched, it died.

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20 hours ago, lanciamatt said:

Also don't listen to people that say you can't put the later gas ( R134A) in older systems, you can but you just need to buy some adapters to screw onto the charge points. Some people say you need to change all seals etc, I didn't when I converted my thema to later gas and its still ice cold a few years later. The gas quantity is different though, think its R12 quantity plus 20% extra. 

You may be able to 'get away' with R134A, but it's not just the seals which aren't compatible, but the oil in the compressor too. Not sure why you'd want to risk it, when there are drop-in replacements for R12 easily available:

http://www.refsols.com/RS-24_p1.html

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5 hours ago, mat_the_cat said:

You may be able to 'get away' with R134A, but it's not just the seals which aren't compatible, but the oil in the compressor too. Not sure why you'd want to risk it, when there are drop-in replacements for R12 easily available:

http://www.refsols.com/RS-24_p1.html

I went on auto climate training courses, and trainer on there said you can use specific replacement gas, but try find a company that has some, just empty R12 system and charge with R134A. Also pretty much every car has its own specific pag oil, but you can buy a universal pag oil, this is what most garages use as you would have you keep emptying oil charge bottle every time you needed to charge a car. This universal oil works fine in old systems too. 

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I've been thinking about the running, duh it has ancient petrol in it! How could it run well with 5L of fresh and the rest being prehistoric? Started it again this evening, and it ran better with a throttle response that wasn't STALL.

4 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Oh no, this is turning out to be a rather viable car, let alone a viable project.

I can't break it now, it's too good. Will register it and probably put it in for a cheeky MOT, just in case... Still has to be sold though.

4 hours ago, Asimo said:

Will the Air Chiller parts from a left hand drive fit a right hand drive? (Assuming your other BX is RHD)

Yes, for the a/c everything is on the same side IIRC. My BX GT (RHD) will even need holes drilling in the bulkhead for the gas pipes! So in that respect, it doesn't really matter. I was thinking doing the dashboard stuff would be the worst and most difficult, but now i've seen the amount of pipework and associated parts that appear to be in the engine bay - this is going to be the challenge. Not helped by the massive autobox in this TRS being in the way of everything, it appears waaay bigger than the manual box in my GT, from memory.

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1 hour ago, lanciamatt said:

I went on auto climate training courses, and trainer on there said you can use specific replacement gas, but try find a company that has some, just empty R12 system and charge with R134A. Also pretty much every car has its own specific pag oil, but you can buy a universal pag oil, this is what most garages use as you would have you keep emptying oil charge bottle every time you needed to charge a car. This universal oil works fine in old systems too. 

Ah, I've never had any trouble.

I was just pointing out that simply refilling with R134A requires a change of oil - whether that be to R134A compatible PAG oil, or the universal POE oil I think you're referring to? Whether in the real world you can get away with not doing so,I don't know as I've not heard of anyone trying it...

Obviously it's no big deal to change the oil once the system is removed, but I'd suggest you may as well change the O rings for R134A compatible ones while the system is apart! In all likelihood there'll be no need to empty the R12 (if you can find someone with R12 recovery kit) as it will probably have all escaped by now. But I'd advise getting it checked for leaks so you know whether you need to replace any parts before installation.

The Mk2 BX has the shell already modified to be AC ready - you just have to remove grommets and blanking panels so I had it easier than you :-P

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Excellent news. Does look like a good 'un. Just a small point - you need to MoT it before you can register it, so once it's had a bit more of a going-over it's probably worth sticking it in for a test just to see what kind of work it will need for a ticket.

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Before you go to all trouble of removing a/c system, I agree get it checked out for leaks and make sure compressor will kick in. The problem is you will have to buy the charge adapters first, then get someone to come and test system for leaks, we use oxygen free nitrogen when testing an empty system for leaks as it doesn't harm the atmosphere. Also a vacuum of the system can be a good indication there is no leaks as it wouldn't hold a vac if there was one. To test the compressor kicks in, I'd find the relay and bridge it and see if you can here a click from the compressor, but in the end you cannot be 100% it's guna work until you charge system and press button. Don't wanna put you off, but I've had quite a bit of experience trying to get a/c working on older cars. Sometimes a simple job, others can be an expensive job

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Thanks for all the advice guys, I was in my own little naive way hoping that by removing it and servicing the necessary parts that it'd all work! Just now there is nothing working from the a/c system that I know of, I haven't checked any fuses or wiring though. I do know someone with some BX a/c spares although it'll be MK2 stuff, but I think most of the system was carried over (except the MK1 specific stuff, like dash parts etc).

This is the current situation:

-At least one interior fan does work.

-Radiator fans don't come on when the lever is moved - I think they should from memory (nor did they come on in the 10 mins I ran the car, unsurprisingly!)

-Ventilation flaps don't move move when either the a/c is on the 2 snowflake lever setting, or when the air recirculation button by the handbrake is in either position.

-Irritating electrical meep/beep noise from the centre console happens sometimes if you turn the a/c lever on, it doesn't go away then until the ignition is off!  

I'll check some fuses, and maybe trace the wiring I can get to. Are the relays likely to have failed? 

6 hours ago, barrett said:

Just a small point - you need to MoT it before you can register it, 

This changes my plans, but good to know - thanks barrett. I'll pick a local MOT station that does a/c and get them to vacuum check the system etc at the same time. Seems daft though to do it beforehand, how can a certificate be assigned to a car with no registration?

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They do it on chassis number, then you send that off with the registration pack, and they update it after reg issued. On that age car you can use beam benders on the headlights too, you will see like a off shape triangle pattern in glass, just put black tape on that, if not you will get a fail for kick on beam wrong side, also if its got only 1 fog light on rear, that will need swapping to other side too, also km speedo OK on this age car too. When I UK registered my lhd car dvla were brilliant, no issues at all, it's miles easier when they are over 10 years old. If you need any help just ask pal 

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I'm making the assumption that the logic behind the AC operation is the same as the Mk2  circuit I'm familiar with, but if so the rad fans will not operate with the AC if the system is not functional, for example if the system is low on pressure.

Unlikely, but not impossible to be a failed relay - almost certainly to be lack of pressure at this age. Again assuming same as Mk2, you should be able to check continuity at the pressure switch on the receiver drier to see whether this is the problem.

2063710976_BXacwiringscan.thumb.jpg.6c96e8dda8dcd32d217387f23f929a7d.jpg

Ventilation flaps can seize given their position, but I've seen the switch contacts be the problem also. Check for a voltage at the recirc motors which should change polarity when you move the switch.

Lastly, if you need RHD headlights, I have them coming out of my ears! You are welcome to a pair to free up some space!

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Lanciamatt (also a Matt?) Cheets buddy, I've never imported a car before, didn't think about rear fogs! I think the BX has two, but will check all the same. Glad km's are ok, findibg a mph mk1 speedo cluster would be fun...

Thanks for the diagram Matt, will have a butchers at that later. A pair of headlamps would be great! Those on the TRS don't look to have much silver reflective stuff left on their insides, there are no bulbs either so they've been sat unsealed. If you send me some details (paypal/bank etc) and how much you need I'll send some monies.

Cheers folks!

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