The reason we drive shite/chod/cars no one wants anymore

[Matty]

Just cos I like them. No one can possibly deny that modern cars are better in nearly every measurable way. Faster safer more rust resistant more economical (lack of commas can't be arsed to go back and add them) etc etc. But I don't like them.

[JoelIoM]

We have a modern Honda in our household which works flawlessly but is utterly boring to drive. My wife can keep it.

 

I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I could have pretty much any car I wanted (on finance) but there isn't anything out there that I would be willing to get into debt for. If I was rich I would maybe buy a new S class and treat it like a disposable item and get rid every couple of years.

 

Until I do win the lottery I'm happy smoking a battered, old Shogun. It's hideous on fuel, looks like hammered dog dirt but it's comfortable, drives nice and I love having a vehicle that no one wants to park next to at the supermarket.

[Fumbler]

For me it's probably because of their functionality and the fact they're there to do a job, howevever (un)dignified it might be. For example, I'm in love with DW's Skoda Favorit right now because it's a boxy, petrol, EOL communist estate car. I just love it all the way round. It's the same reason why I'm a Lada licker and have a love for Yugos. I'm even prepared to be stopped by the rozzers too!

 

In short, I like shite vehicles because they're interesting and functional. Why get something new and unserviceable when you can get more enjoyment* and use without worry of damage (or not) out of a knackered (or not) 90s car?

[bramz7]

I'm going to put a fly in the ointment here somewhat, and say moderns ain't all bad. To sum up an entire generation of vehicles as harsh riding, numb driving pointless infotainment hubs on wheels is unnecessary. Yeah sure, they may be diluted, but they're usually a bit more reliable, rust resistant and better on the juice, if they even take fossil fuels that is. I drove my mums 2014 Panda 4x4 and it was lively with tons of low down traction, my friend has a 2014 3 series and it is a huge blast to just point it down the road and press the loud pedal. Remember, the moderns of today are the shite of tomorrow, and then it will go full circle and people will then bemoan whatever is current years down the line.

 

Yeah old stuff is more engrossing, usually a bit more involving to drive and turns a few heads, but it's not all sunshine in my opinion. I don't buy the RWD is best theory either, FWD is fine. 

I have always liked old cars, but I am more than willing to go out of my comfort zone now to experience something different. The 800 is an outdated chassis in newer looking clothes, the 518 is reasonably fun to wind up and chuck about, 605s were probably the pinnacle of point, go and comfort motoring, with zero intrustion, but driving back a 2001 E46 the other day was effortless and dare I say relaxing? I moved house in an AX a few months ago but it was fuggin torture in the end, the thrashy engine gave me a headache and the pedals don't always match DMs. Shite kudo points sure, but there comes a time when you just want to let the car do the work. (Disclaimer: that's not to say all old cars are huge amounts of physical effort, sometimes non PAS is thrilling in a perverse way, but try parallel parking a shonky BX without it, I think I risked more damage to myself)

 

In conclusion, I'd never be without one old heap, but I can feel myself working toward a 'one modern, one oldie' lifestyle eventually, like many on here. 

 

 

Fuck me, I waffle. 

[Kiltox]

I’m mentally ill so I choose to have multiple big liability old cars which costs me about the same as leasing one new actual premium car rather than a bunch of knackers that have had their day

[Tamworthbay]

My reasons are multiple and probably a bit strange, firstly it’s that I am not a fan of many cars made post 2000 but mostly it’s that shite cars are less worry. I have had some seriously nice cars in the past and then worried when I park at Morrison’s, the rough bomb site car park in Brum, dodgy services on continental trips etc. An old car is just hassle free, if it gets a ding, so what? Add it to the list. If some dickhead parks their car stupidly close, equally no problem, I can get in paint or no paint. Three bags of cement and a load of shit for the tip? Yup chuck it in the back. Bag of chips? Pizza? Dodgy kebab from Ephesus takeaway (with extra home made chilli sauce)? Yup no problem. Mechanically I keep them spot on but don’t worry about the aesthetics too much. The Beemer was a little different as it was amazingly good for the model and it’s age, but even that was less relaxing for it. Ratty cars are the best.

[Mrcento]

In the case of younger drivers, Finance.

 

When all's said and done, if, say, a younger person is looking for a car and has a budget of 4k, They can spend anything up to that in one go, need to tax, insure, fuel etc and they are 7k in. Then there's maintenance, repairs and when all is said and done, they've still got a 10-20 year old car with relatively few (what they perceive as) goodies... or they could put half of that on a deposit, have a brand new, shiny warrantied fridge freezer parked outside their house that reads out texts, automatically played yoof music and has 3 different choices of bong to remind you the headlights are on,

 

And their friends won't laugh at them, they won't get comments of "Not being able to afford a new car". Even when you finance something it's often because you couldn't afford to buy it outright....

 

The majority of Younger drivers aren't interested in a car being a car any more. They don't really know what they used to be, they just see that they don't have the features they want any more.

 

I know of a lassie who doesn't keep her "new" car for more than 2 years, always 1.2 Fiestas and the likes, always going on about people not affording new cars, wouldn't be seen dead in anything more than 3 years old. Even posts pictures of older cars like "eww, get that heap away from my car #Grandadmobile"....the car in question was a pristine Mercedes E55 AMG......

 

Hell, i know of someone on a forum i used to be on who was on a crusade to ban cars with an analogue speedo, wanted them made illegal because she found it easier to look at the number 30 than look at a needle pointing at 30.

 

The ipad generation really only care about features.

 

The car for most has just become an appliance that takes them places, they don't care about steering feel, aren't so bothered on ride comfort as long as it looks good, they don't care how it sounds if it does 50mpg, they don't care how it handles as long as their car connects to their phone. They don't even really care it'll last for 5 years, they'll bin it before then and replace with another new car on finance.

 

For older folk, it's the reliability factor. The finance aspect tied in to the warranty one. Everyone likes shiny new things, they are perceived as better simply because of age, aren't seen as much of a worry come MOT time.

 

My Cinquecento... A basic, cheap, early 90's city car, even standard knocks the spots off the vast majority of modern cars as a driving tool. No power steering, no assisted anything, it's all feel. You can get in a modern sports car after than and leave disappointed at how numb it felt. You can get used to the modern, go back in the Cinq and will instantly be amazed at the feel through the steering wheel, it feels alive. And that's in a car that was never designed to be anything other than a runabout,

 

But it doesn't have 16 airbags, connect to apple car play or even ping when my dinner is ready.

 

So why do i drive older cars?.... I prefer them and give no fucks on peoples opinion.

[Jazoli]

I think older cars are generally a bit shit, and not a patch on newer stuff, I'd much rather a car turn the lights and wipers on for me, be able to cruise at a safe distance from the car in front by itself, stream my choice of music, read out my texts and make me an espresso when I'm on the motorway, when you spend a lot of time in a car nearly all of the time you are better off in a modern, IMO new cars handle better, stop better, are more economical, are much much safer, and are generally more reliable.

 

I will be giving up on older cars as a daily and leasing or buying a new one I'm sick of throwing money at older stuff only for something else to go wrong, I will probably get an old mx5 or something and get the man at the garage to fix it when it needs it, life is too short to be fucking around repairing old chod at weekends.

[Tamworthbay]

I think older cars are generally a bit shit, and not a patch on newer stuff, I'd much rather a car turn the lights and wipers on for me, be able to cruise at a safe distance from the car in front by itself, stream my choice of music, read out my texts and make me an espresso when I'm on the motorway, when you spend a lot of time in a car nearly all of the time you are better off in a modern, IMO new cars handle better, stop better, are more economical, are much much safer, and are generally more reliable.

 

I will be giving up on older cars as a daily and leasing or buying a new one I'm sick of throwing money at older stuff only for something else to go wrong, I will probably get an old mx5 or something and get the man at the garage to fix it when it needs it, life is too short to be fucking around repairing old chod at weekends.

Who are you? And what have done with Jazoli?

[Jazoli]

Who are you? And what have done with Jazoli?

 

After spending the last 3 weekends sorting random issues on the wife's car out then spending most of this weekend in the pissing rain sorting a rear wheel bearing out on mine Jazoli has had enough, two new cars are on the horizon, probably one electric and one hybrid, possibly arriving in March, hang the cost, taking them to a garage once a year to be serviced is infinitely more preferable than the alternatives right now

[carlo]

I think older cars are generally a bit shit, and not a patch on newer stuff, I'd much rather a car turn the lights and wipers on for me, be able to cruise at a safe distance from the car in front by itself, stream my choice of music, read out my texts and make me an espresso when I'm on the motorway, when you spend a lot of time in a car nearly all of the time you are better off in a modern, IMO new cars handle better, stop better, are more economical, are much much safer, and are generally more reliable.

 

I will be giving up on older cars as a daily and leasing or buying a new one I'm sick of throwing money at older stuff only for something else to go wrong, I will probably get an old mx5 or something and get the man at the garage to fix it when it needs it, life is too short to be fucking around repairing old chod at weekends.

 

You're right about turning the lights on, it's a fecking chore isn't it?  I don't go out at night or on the rain now 'cos I just couldn't be arsed.

[Mrcento]

You're right about turning the lights on, it's a fecking chore isn't it?  I don't go out at night or on the rain now 'cos I just couldn't be arsed.

 

It's wipers that get me

 

The effort of pressing the stalk is more than i'm willing to expend in a day. Much better the car tells me it might be raining and wipe the screen for me in anticipation that i might want to see where i'm going.

 

I mean, even when it isn't raining and it starts randomly sweeping the screen, dry blades juddering across...at least i know the car did it with the best intentions.

 

So I'll feel better about it's caring nature when my throttle goes mad and it's a £3000 repair for diagnostics, 2 new sensors and a new throttle body, rather than the £10 i'd have spent on a new cable.

[beko1987]

I drive old cars because it's all I can afford to run and sometimes buy.

 

 

Same here! I often gaze at £99 a month Dacia Sandero deals every so often, but then remember that I can't afford £99 a month, I've had cars that cost less than £99 to buy and cost maybe a fiver a month to run (bar fuel obv). Plus I then see I can only do 5000 miles a bloody year for my £99 a month, WTF?

 

Years back a mate at work got a kia rio (2010 shape) on pcp. Worked really well for him and he got a cracking deal (scrappage scheme job, his poor vectra got the chop) but after 19 months he had to not drive it as he was at the mileage limit for the term, he had to use his partners car for the last few months! We didn't take the piss out of him at all!

[rickvw72]

I think if your not too bothered about tech, new cars offer nothing over cars from 1995-2002 ish.

 

You can buy reliable, 50mpg cars, loaded with features for less than a grand, that are as usable as a new thing.

 

Some of these cars from the 90s will outlast stuff built today. The challenge is finding decent stuff and looking after it.

 

I fail to see how you can spend £250 a month maintaining an older motor, do people really rebuild their gearboxes every 6 months or so?

[Kiltox]

I fail to see how you can spend £250 a month maintaining an older motor, do people really rebuild their gearboxes every 6 months or so?

Depends on the car

 

The garage bill for my X5’s MOT last year including remedial work and a service was £1800. That’s £150 a month before anything else

[beko1987]

Depends on the car

 

The garage bill for my X5’s MOT last year including remedial work and a service was £1800. That’s £150 a month before anything else

Problem is, you've bought a very expensive when new car for shiter money, but it still needs the maintenance of a very expensive car!

 

Another reason why I run boring middle aged tosh, everything is available cheap* from euro car parts and shitty branded brake discs etc work just as well as expensive premium ones when you only have 100hp to play with!

 

You can't complain about the cost now, go and deal some coke if money is a bit tight, your mostly set up already!

[bunglebus]

For me it's a combination of appeal and economics. I've always liked older and custom cars, and knowing one end of a spanner from the other do my own work. I wouldn't say I've had any cars that would get people salivating but I've loved most of them for their character and the feel of how they drove.

 

Current daily is 20, getting on for a quarter of a million miles but is utterly reliable, economic, comfortable and goes pretty well if needed, handles nicely and is generally a good place to be. 

 

Don't want a £300 a month fashion statement/washing machine/mobile phone thanks.

[Kiltox]

Problem is, you've bought a very expensive when new car for shiter money, but it still needs the maintenance of a very expensive car!

 

Another reason why I run boring middle aged tosh, everything is available cheap* from euro car parts and shitty branded brake discs etc work just as well as expensive premium ones when you only have 100hp to play with!

 

You can't complain about the cost now, go and deal some coke if money is a bit tight, your mostly set up already!

All of the coke dealers are rolling about in mahogany over mahogany X5s

[beko1987]

A higher class of dealer!

[Guest Hooli]

I just feel right in older stuff, i think for me it's a combination of a few things, I can tell the car what to do not the other way around, no driver aids to smack me on the wrist, old cars give feedback and talk to you through the steering and brakes every step of the way, where as new stuff just feels like driving a washing machine on a set cycle with overly light steering and over servo'd brakes, I like the sounds and smells that come with old cars and above all I love rwd, you all know it's right front wheels for steering and the back wheels for pushing why over complicate it, I would be limited on choice of moderns because of this one

 

 

That sums up why new cars are boring & wrong wheel drive.

[DaveDorson]

Everything I want that's moderately modern is Uber expensive. Everything I want thats older is now getting stupidly expensive.

 

Middle ground motoring is fine with me

[Zelandeth]

I reckon the last new "old" car was the Pug 107/Toyota Aygo/Citroen C1.

 

It was the old small car formula:

 

Tiny engine, but you didn't mind as it behaves like an old Fiat one. I.e. it was in its element revving like a nutter. Light weight by today's standards. No multiplexed electronics. Seats were firm...but in a basic car that's forgivable, they weren't actually uncomfortable though...it wasn't intended to be a long distance cruiser. Gadget count ran to remote central locking, power steering, electric windows and (really very effective!) air conditioning. Ride was pretty jittery as you'd expect from a car so light, but wasn't any where near as bone jarring as the Audi A6 parked outside just now.

 

It was *fun* to drive though. You could chuck it around and it didn't scowl disapprovingly at you...no, it just howled like an 80s flat six Porsche between four and six thousand RPM and egged you on.

 

Above all else though, it still felt LIKE A CAR.

 

I reckon the best of the bunch is probably the 2015 generation Aygo. I had one of those as a rental and it was basically the same as my 2009 107, but with almost every one of my shortcomings fixed, and with better (to my eye) styling. That "shift up" light would need to die though. You do not shift up at 2800rpm with that engine...try 5800rpm and we can talk...

[Tamworthbay]

Same here! I often gaze at £99 a month Dacia Sandero deals every so often, but then remember that I can't afford £99 a month, I've had cars that cost less than £99 to buy and cost maybe a fiver a month to run (bar fuel obv). Plus I then see I can only do 5000 miles a bloody year for my £99 a month, WTF?

Years back a mate at work got a kia rio (2010 shape) on pcp. Worked really well for him and he got a cracking deal (scrappage scheme job, his poor vectra got the chop) but after 19 months he had to not drive it as he was at the mileage limit for the term, he had to use his partners car for the last few months! We didn't take the piss out of him at all!

The excess mileage charge is pennies, even you do a few thousand miles over it would only have been £100-200 which is hardly costing the Earth.

[sierraman]

Depends on the car

 

The garage bill for my X5’s MOT last year including remedial work and a service was £1800. That’s £150 a month before anything else

Can’t seem to find those deals on a new X5 for £150 a month though...

 

It’s all relative, you couldn’t compare a £99 a month Dacia to a (when new in...) £40,000 car.

 

A mate of mine signe up to an 8k a year deal on PCP, then got told he’d be doing a Castleford to Sheffield commute every day. Think it’s done about 15k over the limit and it hasn’t gone back yet.

[sutty2006]

Some very interesting points put across in this topic. From both sides. I can see why some don’t want the bother of getting the old cantilever tool box full of random rusty spanner’s out every weekend, and would rather throw money at a new motor to be reliable.... but for me I’d rather fix my own motor than send a hire car into be tickled by monkeys. I love the fact that everything I drive is something I own. Even down to my 05 plate discovery which (touch wood) has been fairly reliable.

 

On the subject of modern technology, a car that can do pretty much everything for the driver apart from make a brew is pretty lazy. Like fordperv, I’d rather tell the car what to do, rather than rely on it doing it itself.

[Jazoli]

Can’t seem to find those deals on a new X5 for £150 a month though...

 

It’s all relative, you couldn’t compare a £99 a month Dacia to a (when new in...) £40,000 car.

 

A mate of mine signe up to an 8k a year deal on PCP, then got told he’d be doing a Castleford to Sheffield commute every day. Think it’s done about 15k over the limit and it hasn’t gone back yet.

It's still not that much and at 6p per mile excess charge it's £900, which for an extra 15k miles is fairly cheap.

 

I've been looking at deals for Octavia's for the wife, I can get a new one for £155 a month with zero deposit on a 8k a year contract, however she does 25k a year so it's 17k over at 3.9p a mile, so will cost her an extra £650 a year, if you amortise the figures it works out at less than £210 a month, to cover 75000 miles, which works out at 10p a mile (excluding fuel and maintenance) cheap motoring in anyone's book.

 

Compare that to having to replace the clutch and dmf on her 10 year old car, several electrical sensors, suspension bits, brakes, steering rack, an abs sensor and other bits, which all have to be done at a garage as I work and can't afford to start a job on her car and then something goes wrong and I can't finish it in between Sat afternoon and Monday morning when she leaves for work.

 

The older I get the more loath I am to do anything more than change a bulb on a car, crawling around on the floor is no fun, so new or very nearly new cars under warranty make more sense to me, plus I like all the toys you get.

[sierraman]

Are old cars actually that unreliable? I’m not sure If my experience differs from other people’s but I’m not laid on the drive every weekend changing clutches and swapping engines. The Focus is due a service but that will cost me all of £40.

[Marm Toastsmith]

Shite is basically free. Less than a grand means it's done depreciating and will sell for its buying price. Keep it long enough and it might actually go up in value. The only time I've ever paid more than a grand for a car it was a "classic" with a rising price tag - so the buying price meant little...I hear neighbours telling me that their new Hyundai is only £300 per month... and my car was less than £300 outright. They go on a road trip and have to be careful not to scratch it as they'll break the terms of their leasing agreement... and then after how many ever years they have to give the car back. I just don't get it. It just seems so obvious that (when it comes to motoring) I'm winning at life.

 

I've never had too much trouble with old cars. With the services of a good reasonably priced mechanic and breakdown cover then things can't really go all that wrong. And the great thing with a cheap car is that you're never going to have to spend more than a grand repairing it - if it's uneconomical to repair just scrap it and buy another car. Imagine a complex modern auto gearbox failing on a car worth 5 grand... you're going to have to repair it! Either that or sell it. Either is going to be a major PITA.

 

Every now and then I have the urge to buy something new for the sake of novelty. Maybe I'll do it ONCE. But I'd rather pay off my mortgage...or music lessons for the kids...eat better food...go on holiday...or just work less. I just can't manage to think of any justification for it.

 

To be fair, I'm a Londoner, nothing's that far away, so I cycle regularly, and walk when I can, a car isn't a daily tool. I don't do more than a few thousand miles a year, and most of that is holidays and escapes. It's not used for commuting. Maybe if and when I move out of London I'll look at things differently. But then...if I had to do loads of commuting miles, maybe I'd just buy a motorbike.

 

To me, a better question for this thread would be, "why would anyone buy a new car?"

[Kiltox]

Can’t seem to find those deals on a new X5 for £150 a month though...

 

It’s all relative, you couldn’t compare a £99 a month Dacia to a (when new in...) £40,000 car.

 

A mate of mine signe up to an 8k a year deal on PCP, then got told he’d be doing a Castleford to Sheffield commute every day. Think it’s done about 15k over the limit and it hasn’t gone back yet.

My point is that’s just the tip of the iceberg, I’m sure it actually costs far more over the course of the year and at the end of the day you’re still rattling around in a 17 year old 150k mile small time coke dealer reject

 

Not comparing it to a Sandero on PCP.

[SierraMikeHotel]

Some thoughts...

 

First up, let's not generalise. "Young people want..." is just a daft thing to say - people are individuals and they want different things.

 

Personally I like some of the gadgets: OldMerc is currently having a new head unit with Android Auto fitted which I think will improve the car enormously: most of the times that I drive, I don't know where I'm going so having built in sat nav will be fantastic. I also can't wait to have access to all of my music without having to faff about with CDs (they're great in houses, shit in cars).

 

I wouldn't like to be without climate control and cruise control either, auto lights and wipers are nice but I don't miss them if I don't have them.

 

As far as "being a car" goes - again, I don't think we can generalise. A lot of moderns have a firm ride, which I dislike, but not all. I can't stand the ride in my father-in-law's A4, but the new C-Class, my dad's Skoda Superb, and (to my surprise) the Citroën C1 that I had as a courtesy car this week are all excellent.

 

General trends: yes, cars are bigger. My stepmum's new Octavia dwarfs my 2007 C-class, although they're both the medium car in their range. But... Most manufacturers have brought in smaller cars at the bottom, so it averages out. If I was buying a new car to replace my C-class, the B-class would probably be enough car.

 

I often drive Hyundais at work and they're dull but brilliant appliances, which we scoff at - but then we get excited when someone buys a Proton or a Daewoo, the appliances of their day. Give it 20 years...