invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Christine]

Just been reading this https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1974/feb/05/disabled-drivers-vehicles

[Christine]

35 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

they indeed would of needed to take another driving test to add the Motor car entitlement to their licence, but I dont think it was seen as a serious obstacle either, free driving lessons and tuition was provided for those switching to a regular adapted car just as it is provided today  

but you do raise a point that is one I have often thought about, how many of the accidents listed in statistics where down to driver error or the such like, rather then a fault of the vehicle itself, for example its no secret that if you wanted a hot hatch back in the day a Peugeot 205 GTI or such, you paid more for insurance because they got into accidents more, but it was not down to any fault of the 205 GTI itself, but mostly down to the people who drove them fast and crashed em, and likewise the Giffer Dented Honda Jazz or Rover something-or-other.

not saying that All Invacar drivers where bad drivers back in the day, but its certainly something worth considering that I dont see mentioned much! and likewise certainly I am sure we are all aware of how many people who hold full car driving licences and probably should not be on the road!

Not sure about not being a serious obstacle in taking a test ..I mean,  you're young , and its easier to learn when you're young , and it took 120 hours of lessons for you to pass ,   x   that by  20,000 ?  older trike users  at the time..

Perhaps the cost of that to the government  slowed up the  discontinuation too

[Snake Charmer]

2 hours ago, Christine said:

Now thats  440 ..

Ministry blue 413. 😘

[dollywobbler]

My Invacar is a 1972 and I'm pretty sure it was still working, or at least roadworthy, when the scheme came to an end in 2003. Which I find pretty remarkable. How continuous her service life was I don't know as she clocked up a mere 27k miles.

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

My Invacar is a 1972 and I'm pretty sure it was still working, or at least roadworthy, when the scheme came to an end in 2003. Which I find pretty remarkable. How continuous her service life was I don't know as she clocked up a mere 27k miles.

based on her keepership info and what you could recall from the previous keeper section mentioned section on her pre GDPR 2018 V5, (I do really wish you had photographed that section!) I believe TWC had 1 long term user possibly from new until 1997, before she became an AR/ALAC courtesy car from 1997 until the end of the scheme in 2003,  where she was Last taxed in Ministry service 16th June 2003

TPA is the curious one, having only 10K on the clock when she came out of Ministry service, but already having had a replacement engine fitted at some point in her ministry life, I have often wondered if she has gone round the clock instead! its certainly not unheard of, this is the highest milage I have seen in a surviving Model 70  94154 miles!

 

[wuvvum]

I wonder how much of this was users switching from an old Villiers-engined model who couldn't handle the power?

[dollywobbler]

15 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I wonder how much of this was users switching from an old Villiers-engined model who couldn't handle the power?

As I remember from the very first time I drove mine, it's very easy to overpower the brakes with accidental throttle application and while not as unstable as you may think, it's definitely possible to tip one if careless. Add in the fact that 50mph is pretty easily achieved and you can see why some less capable drivers may have had issues.

Oh and then there's the lethality in crosswinds. In some ways, the Model 70 was a vast improvement but you could also say there was now enough power to get into real trouble.

[D.E]

Are those the numbers of different Invacars involved in accidents, or of the accidents involving an Invacar? I can image some drivers having multiple accidents.

[Christine]

I see Ians trike is still down as an Invacare on total car check .. Dvla still not changed it back ? 

[warren t claim]

3 hours ago, Christine said:

All the mechanics ran Minis  , as   10" tyres   fitted  in oversize lunchboxes..

 

  Now thats  440 ..

 

[Christine]

/\ /\  Just  like Claim Garage ! 

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

As I remember from the very first time I drove mine, it's very easy to overpower the brakes with accidental throttle application and while not as unstable as you may think, it's definitely possible to tip one if careless. Add in the fact that 50mph is pretty easily achieved and you can see why some less capable drivers may have had issues.

Oh and then there's the lethality in crosswinds. In some ways, the Model 70 was a vast improvement but you could also say there was now enough power to get into real trouble.

not that I want to repeat the experience , but I found REV's brakes to be quite adequate in that regard thankfully! as I suddenly found myself rapidly hurtling  towards my neighbours Rover SD1 with a Jammed throttle cable I slammed on the handle bars and was able to bring REV to a halt before I ended up causing a very 1980's insurance claim! (so much for being told at the time that the throttle cable had been sorted!) "Sorry Sir, you say you where driving an Invacar and Crashed into a Rover SD1 is that correct? well excuse me sir, but mind if I ask what year it is your calling from?" 

but otherwise indeed I have heard of a few stories of the performance/handling of the Model 70 catching people out, for example the stories of Lord Snowdon and a Chap at MIRA turning over a Model 70 was down to them just miss-handling the machine, for example IIRC one of them snapped the throttle wide open while trying to reverse around an obstacle, and thats never going to end well in any sort of vehicle!

and this one of the reasons I eschew some of the period reports from various non disabled people of "oh I drove a Model 70 and it was terrifying" well yes of course it would be terrifying! your used to driving a car with steering wheels and pedals, so something with a completely different control scheme and feel to it, would probably be scary and unknown to you regardless of what it is, I imagine the same would be said if you took a Boeing pilot and chucked em in an Airbus or vice versa etc they too would probably find the whole thing terrifying! or likewise you take someone who has no interest in motorcycles, has never ridden a motorcycle/moped of any kind, and put them on a 500cc sports bike they too would probably find it very scary at first,

but that sports bike would be  perfectly fine once your used to it, and the same goes for the Model 70, but very few of the able bodied critics ever spent much time behind the handlebars and actually familiarised themselves with the machine

on the flipside if you read the accounts of people who spent lots of time behind the handle bars and the such like, many said they handled fine and could be chucked about with aplomb, for example an excerpt from Peter Wonnacott's account as his time as an Invacar test driver on the Virtual Gaz Invacar page  http://www.virtualgaz.com/invacarpage.htm

Quote

Being able bodied the majority of us testers much preferred the standard handlebar version as we could control the steering much more precisely much (like a motorcycle) and found aside of any high wind these cars to be extremely safe and stable otherwise considering they had only a three wheel configuration. Indeed, as the controversy raged I accompanied John L Ralling where he conducted wind tests at southend airport on one invacar I drove using a huge four engine turbo prop transport plane that was parked on the concrete at right angles facing away from the section where we were conducting the test and for a few minutes ran at full power to supply sufficient turbulence as to try to re-create driving conditions in an abnormally high gale force wind as I drove up and down past its wake so John could see first hand at least one of the problems these machines suffered in such conditions. I think it was realised that very little could be done to combat this problem or ease the severity suffered by these vehicles without a complete re-design of the front of the car adding the necessary extra weight and stability required to achieve this aim. Another time a team of us testers took a number of cars back to the airport amid all the controversy which was quickly picked up be the local press looking for conformation of these claims being made regarding the stability and safety factor of these vehicles amongst other claims amongst the disabled fraternity, and on a huge open concrete section at the airport we were all given carte blanch to drive these cars to their limits in any way we so wished. This we all did and with a lot of lunacy we drove around madly, often putting the cars on two wheels to the extreme but as soon as the handlebars were released due to the simple steering arrangement the tiller went immediately to the straight ahead position allowing the vehicles to simply be returned safely back down, in fact personally, I think it would need to be a real severe case to be able to turn one completely over under normal circumstances one exception to this fact may be the steering wheel versions which by design comparison did not react as rapidly and positive as the handlebar and tiller configuration.

another anecdote from him off that page that always amuses me

Quote

This second incident for me personally was even funnier still but first I must explain the situation and circumstances beforehand. Within close proximity to where our test and rectification departments was housed at the other end of the same main factory building was another department which was a section used by the men from the ministry and their job was to do a Pre Delivery Inspection on each car prior to accepting them after we had undertaken the appropriate corrections on each vehicle to their satisfaction (a little like an Mot if you prefer to view it). The chap who was considered to be in charge was the main person permanently stationed at the factory and who only got extra assistance from other ministry testers when the loading got too much for one man, he was a pompous individual full of authoritism, hated being there and did his best to let everyone be aware of this fact by his actions and mood swings each day as he went about his work inspecting these cars and woe betide anyone if he had a family disagreement at home prior to arriving at work, we usually bore the brunt of his anger one way and another and was well despised by many of us because of this fact.

One day upon returning from a test run in an invacar came over the brow of church hill as usual at speed, now in case the reader of this is not familiar with the road or area I will endeavour to explain, the hill is steep and has opposing corners top and bottom and is around a hundred or more yards in total from top to bottom. As I reached the brow there was a slight hump in the road that as you passed over it the car became airborne for a split second and had a tendency to jolt the car slightly over to the right but when you got used to this anomaly you simply re-corrected your line of travel bringing the car back on track to continue safely down the hill at speed. Now this particular day just as it always did this of all things climbing the hill coming toward me on the opposite side was a police car containing three policemen one of which was a sergeant. The look of fear and surprise was apparent upon the drivers face as he thought an accident was imminent and immediately slammed on his brakes whilst pulling into the kerb, this was observed by me as I quickly glanced in my interior mirror and saw the bright illumination of his brake lights. Thinking they may turn around and chase me I tore down the hill at full throttle as usual and reached the safety of the factory where I raced down the side road of the main factory onto some waste ground at the rear where we stored many cars either awaiting delivery or pre inspection and screeched to a halt, leapt out and proceeded to go through the engine tuning motions burying my face inside the engine compartment at the rear of the car.

Carefully glancing over my shoulder as I was doing this, sure enough three angry bobbies appeared glancing all around somewhat confused as there were a few of us fellows around and a whole lot of blue cars all looking much the same as one another. A few yards away at the end of the concrete side road I had just roared down sat this very ministry man whom we despised calmly sitting inside writing out his usual trivia complaint sheet totally unaware of anything else going on around him, and what I didn’t know was the fact that he had arrived from the same test run just minutes before me and I in fact had just shot past him in the last few seconds. A puzzled bobby walked straight up to him as he was the only one sitting in a car and tapped on his window asking him if it was he who had just come down the hill, to which with an equally puzzled look upon his face agreed he had indeed just come down the hill moments previous and couldn’t remember seeing any sort of police car pass him in the opposite direction let alone frighten the life out of them by his aggressive driving (even though as with the rest of us he drove just as fast). Hearing them reading him the riot act and getting the rollocking I should have received, I could not stop laughing to myself upon realizing what was taking place muttering to myself, “well, well, well, that mix up couldn’t have happened to a nicer fellow” and went home that evening thoroughly chuffed, feeling, right or wrong, justice had been served at least for that day anyway, which for me anyway was one of the most fulfilling days of many a year since whilst working there, LOL!!.

 

I suppose this is one advantage i have over most in the current age, in that even before I started driving regular cars/having driving lessons, I was running around the FoD in REV, so the controls/handling of a Model 70 is 2nd nature to me, its engrained right from the very start, its what I am inherently familiar with  

[Conan]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

not that I want to repeat the experience , but I found REV's brakes to be quite adequate in that regard thankfully! as I suddenly found myself rapidly hurtling  towards my neighbours Rover SD1 with a Jammed throttle cable I slammed on the handle bars and was able to bring REV to a halt before I ended up causing a very 1980's insurance claim! (so much for being told at the time that the throttle cable had been sorted!) "Sorry Sir, you say you where driving an Invacar and Crashed into a Rover SD1 is that correct? well excuse me sir, but mind if I ask what year it is your calling from?" 

but otherwise indeed I have heard of a few stories of the performance/handling of the Model 70 catching people out, for example the stories of Lord Snowdon and a Chap at MIRA turning over a Model 70 was down to them just miss-handling the machine, for example IIRC one of them snapped the throttle wide open while trying to reverse around an obstacle, and thats never going to end well in any sort of vehicle!

and this one of the reasons I eschew some of the period reports from various non disabled people of "oh I drove a Model 70 and it was terrifying" well yes of course it would be terrifying! your used to driving a car with steering wheels and pedals, so something with a completely different control scheme and feel to it, would probably be scary and unknown to you regardless of what it is, I imagine the same would be said if you took a Boeing pilot and chucked em in an Airbus or vice versa etc they too would probably find the whole thing terrifying! or likewise you take someone who has no interest in motorcycles, has never ridden a motorcycle/moped of any kind, and put them on a 500cc sports bike they too would probably find it very scary at first,

but that sports bike would be  perfectly fine once your used to it, and the same goes for the Model 70, but very few of the able bodied critics ever spent much time behind the handlebars and actually familiarised themselves with the machine

on the flipside if you read the accounts of people who spent lots of time behind the handle bars and the such like, many said they handled fine and could be chucked about with aplomb, for example an excerpt from Peter Wonnacott's account as his time as an Invacar test driver on the Virtual Gaz Invacar page  http://www.virtualgaz.com/invacarpage.htm

another anecdote from him off that page that always amuses me

 

I suppose this is one advantage i have over most in the current age, in that even before I started driving regular cars/having driving lessons, I was running around the FoD in REV, so the controls/handling of a Model 70 is 2nd nature to me, its engrained right from the very start, its what I am inherently familiar with  

I have to repeat this again, because it is clear my point on the previous post was not across.

What you should be saying to Ian right now is "Thank you for the account of your experience, I will take it into consideration for how I will operate my Invacar in the future." Not trying to contradict him with anecdote on how many of the stories on how the Model 70 handle badly was "down to them just miss-handling the machine", and that it is an issue of familiarity with handle bar steering or whatever.

These stories you are citing is a pretty good representation of your actual driving experience right now. No frame of reference. You are also ignoring the fact that some stories citing that they handle fine are from "people who spent lots of time behind the handle bars" Read, test drivers who've driven them at the limit in relatively controlled environment for possibly ten of thousands of miles, learning all the needed feedback that these cars provided and knowing what to do in case of an emergency. These feedback are not the same as you knowing the basic control because it is the first car you've driven. They don't transfer by just reading.

This is exactly what I meant by saying overconfidence and leading me to point it out the first time, and now the second time.

At this point, you are not yet the contradiction of the "less capable drivers" mentioned by Ian. I want you to understand that this is the same mentality as 17yo in hatchbacks crashing into hedges because they believe they are invincible and different from everyone else.

What I'm pretty scared of right now is that your next action after pootling around at less than 30mph for a few miles, which isn't really enough to cause an issue, you'd decided that yeah it is absolutely 100% fine what are those people going on about? (Which is highly likely, considering your stance right now). And immediately try the speed over 30mph, the speed where the "real trouble" is.

Again, I cannot stop you from operating your own vehicle and make your own decision, so to conclude, just do whatever you want. YOLO and all that.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, Conan said:

I have to repeat this again, because it is clear my point on the previous post was not across.

What you should be saying to Ian right now is "Thank you for the account of your experience, I will take it into consideration for how I will operate my Invacar in the future." Not trying to contradict him with anecdote on how many of the stories on how the Model 70 handle badly was "down to them just miss-handling the machine", and that it is an issue of familiarity with handle bar steering or whatever.

forgive me for I am a bit genuinely confused? I am not contradicting him there? I am actually agreeing with him on that front? he says

6 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

it's definitely possible to tip one if careless. Add in the fact that 50mph is pretty easily achieved and you can see why some less capable drivers may have had issues.

and on that point I say thusly 

4 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

indeed I have heard of a few stories of the performance/handling of the Model 70 catching people out, for example the stories of Lord Snowdon and a Chap at MIRA turning over a Model 70 was down to them just miss-handling the machine, for example IIRC one of them snapped the throttle wide open while trying to reverse around an obstacle, and thats never going to end well in any sort of vehicle!

and this one of the reasons I eschew some of the period reports from various non disabled people of "oh I drove a Model 70 and it was terrifying" well yes of course it would be terrifying! your used to driving a car with steering wheels and pedals, so something with a completely different control scheme and feel to it, would probably be scary and unknown to you regardless of what it is, I imagine the same would be said if you took a Boeing pilot and chucked em in an Airbus or vice versa etc they too would probably find the whole thing terrifying! or likewise you take someone who has no interest in motorcycles, has never ridden a motorcycle/moped of any kind, and put them on a 500cc sports bike they too would probably find it very scary at first,

but that sports bike would be  perfectly fine once your used to it, and the same goes for the Model 70, but very few of the able bodied critics ever spent much time behind the handlebars and actually familiarised themselves with the machine

which to summarise is basically me saying "I agree with that I certainly have read stories of less capable/familiar drivers getting caught out by it" and I then go on to explain that this is exactly why when I read the usual media reports of "I tried a Model 70 and it was terrifying" I dont read into them too much, since I know those people being chucked into a Model 70 only tend to drive it very briefly and are not given any time to familiarise themselves with the machine as an actual Ministry user would of been given

again I am certainly not trying to contradict Mr Wobbler here, as above I am agreeing with him, and then expanding on that point made by him  nor am I ignoring his experience of running a Model 70, as I have said before, I am in the fortuitous position that I have the experience of Dollywobbler and Zel that I can draw upon, all the pitfalls and little things I know to watch out for thanks to them treading this path before me.

1 hour ago, Conan said:

What I'm pretty scared of right now is that your next action after pootling around at less than 30mph for a few miles, which isn't really enough to cause an issue, you'd decided that yeah it is absolutely 100% fine what are those people going on about? (Which is highly likely, considering your stance right now). And immediately try the speed over 30mph, the speed where the "real trouble" is.

I have said it multiple times now, that thats not my plan at all, again as I said multiple times, my plan with REV is it to start with local trips and gradually build up going further afield as I gain experience and confidence in myself and REV

a few people have said oh why dont you keep REV at the FoD and just pootle about the local roads there? and one of the reasons I explicitly eschewed that idea because the roads around the FoD are all fast 40Mph+ roads.

I much rather have her here at home, where I can pootle about on the local familiar 20Mph roads, then as I gain confidence, start gradually going further afield, eventually start retracing the routes and roads I drove on while learning to drive, and also the route to the driving test centre and back and so forth, which incorporates a number of different roads/scenarios and the such like which I can progress onto as I gain more confidence in myself and the car, much like I did when learning to drive, I dont think thats a bad idea is it? and again its roads/routes that I am familiar with, so ill be able to focus more on myself and the car, without worrying about being in unfamiliar territory, literally in this case  

 

 

one also has to again remember, that when I am defending the Model 70 here, I am not just doing it for my sake and REV so to speak, I am not saying "look here this guy says it handles fines, so that means Ill be able to jump right away onto the M25"

but  what I am doing it for is to re-balance the books somewhat, to show that actually, no they are not as bad as the 1970's media might lead you to believe to show that no they where not unfit for purpose or as super-unstable or unreliable as people seem to think they were, I am trying to show that a lot of the articles about them dont show the full pictures, and heres the evidence to back up my claims of how they were better then people seem to think they are, is it wrong for me to do that? to try and show the other side of things?

in the same way if someone came in and said "Allegros were awful and unfit for purpose" a fair few people on here would dispute that, where they perfect? no of course not, but they were not unfit for purpose either.

[Jazoli]

15 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

in the same way if someone came in and said "Allegros were awful and unfit for purpose" a fair few people on here would dispute that, where they perfect? no of course not, but they were not unfit for purpose either.

Allegro's were just a crap car and entirely fit for purpose for ferrying 5 people around safely, Invacares were not fit for purpose, you can't argue with the statistics no matter how many times you try and do so

[chadders]

11 minutes ago, Jazoli said:

Allegro's were just a crap car and entirely fit for purpose as ferrying 5 people around safely, Invacares were not fit for purpose, you can't argue with the statistics no matter how many times you try and do so

Having been alive in the 70s and a fair few years before the media just agreed with people's views; that they were crap, at least in the eyes of the working class people I knew who thought that it was contemptible that people injured in the war should have to drive such monstrosities.

 

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, chadders said:

Having been alive in the 70s and a fair few years before the media just agreed with people's views; that they were crap, at least in the eyes of the working class people I knew who thought that it was contemptible that people injured in the war should have to drive such monstrosities.

most people I have talked to about the whole scheme saw it as an excellent thing in how it helped mobilise many disabled people who would of otherwise been housebound, and many of the people who where issued them likewise where most thankful to have them to get out and about, if they where so bad as you seem to think they are then one would have to ask why at its peak over 20,000 disable folk where using these machines? I mean they could of asked for a grant to convert a regular car if they wanted too, its not like the Invacar was the *sole* option at the time

Bert Greeves was even awarded an MBE for his services to the disabled, by way of the Invacar which he created  or name another country where you could litreally get a car prescribed to you by your GP if your needed one to get about the place 

 

also I genuinely have to ask, if you find these machines so contemptible and all that, why are you here? in this thread? you know the one marked "Invacar ramble" its like someone who doesn't like walking into their Local Chinese knowing they dont like Chinese food,, and complaining about how they dont like Chinese , other then to be antagonistic and attention seeking, why are you here LOL

[chadders]

7 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

most people I have talked to about the whole scheme saw it as an excellent thing in how it helped mobilise many disabled people who would of otherwise been housebound, and many of the people who where issued them likewise where most thankful to have them to get out and about, if they where so bad as you seem to think they are then one would have to ask why at its peak over 20,000 disable folk where using these machines? I mean they could of asked for a grant to convert a regular car if they wanted too, its not like the Invacar was the *sole* option at the time

Bert Greeves was even awarded an MBE for his services to the disabled, by way of the Invacar which he created  or name another country where you could litreally get a car prescribed to you by your GP if your needed one to get about the place 

 

also I genuinely have to ask, if you find these machines so contemptible and all that, why are you here? in this thread? you know the one marked "Invacar ramble" its like someone who doesn't like walking into their Local Chinese knowing they dont like Chinese food,, and complaining about how they dont like Chinese , other then to be antagonistic and attention seeking, why are you here LOL

I'm trying to add a bit of perspective as are quite a few others, who are routinely ignored. I don't seem to 'think' that they were, that was the view of people in the 70s that I knew. You believe what you want but selecting bits out of articles that suits your narrative does you no favours neither does putting down @plasticvandan who certainly seems to know more than you and has a balanced view of them.

Incidentally I do like Chinese food and am egotistical enough not to need to seek attention. LOL

[plasticvandan]

Thanks for the shout-out, I clearly don't know as much about them as Dez,work gets in the way,but well remember as a skinny autistic kid with little social life being obsessed with Reliants from childhood,and having now forgotten more than most will know,how liberating it was to get off the defensive and understand the deficiencies,pubic opinions and factual realities of three wheeled motoring and take off the rose tinted glasses.its a lot easier to be able to shrug your shoulders and smile than get upset because everyone is laughing at you.

Have a pic dez

[Christine]

You, you ..you rotter .. you blanked out the reg plate on purpose!  

[big_al_granvia]

talking unsafe cars, proton saga, i know now it is one of the 90's most dodgy motors in a off, yet me in 96-00 hooned one to fxxx when i did 12hr shifts in a call centre, about 4 miles of the drive was on the coast, sea on one side and wall on the other, i even drove it home with a sheared rear shock bolt. only when a workmate ran out of luck and hit the wall before going into the water did i slow down?? did i fuck.  it should have been me the way i drove but god kept me safe, running cheap shit tyres in a dodgy motor, aye i rolled the dice. 

just take it easy dez man

[wuvvum]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

Have a pic dez

It's interesting how a Beta coupe with chrome bumpers still looks a lot more modern than a rubber bumper BGT.

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

most people I have talked to about the whole scheme saw it as an excellent thing in how it helped mobilise many disabled people who would of otherwise been housebound, and many of the people who where issued them likewise where most thankful to have them to get out and about, if they where so bad as you seem to think they are then one would have to ask why at its peak over 20,000 disable folk where using these machines? I mean they could of asked for a grant to convert a regular car if they wanted too, its not like the Invacar was the *sole* option at the time

Bert Greeves was even awarded an MBE for his services to the disabled, by way of the Invacar which he created  or name another country where you could litreally get a car prescribed to you by your GP if your needed one to get about the place 

 

also I genuinely have to ask, if you find these machines so contemptible and all that, why are you here? in this thread? you know the one marked "Invacar ramble" its like someone who doesn't like walking into their Local Chinese knowing they dont like Chinese food,, and complaining about how they dont like Chinese , other then to be antagonistic and attention seeking, why are you here LOL

When I was growing up in the 1960's in rural England they were quite a thing. The village had at least one person with one - I can remember it popping about. It was owned by the local barber who had had polio as a child and was thus mobility impaired. As kids we thought it very cool. He was a very nice chap - well liked by all.

They were made for a different era and a different pace of life but like a 1920's Austin Seven for example if driven with discretion seem quite usable. That's the whole point of old cars.

As LBF says if people have such an aversion to odd old cars they are possibly in the wrong thread and on the wrong site.

I do recommend the 'ignore' facility in the members toolbox to filter out content that individual users don't find interesting. 

I have over 30 on the naughty-step. But it does not affect my enjoyment of the site and the members I am not following seem to drift away anyway.

Keep up the great posts LBF & all the other great folk.

[CGSB]

1 hour ago, chadders said:

I'm trying to add a bit of perspective 

Lmao. Yeah yeah, pull the other one 🔔

You're what - 60? Hiding your insults and snide little digs behind "I'm just trying to look out for him, honest guv". There are some in this thread who are actually concerned about LBF not getting into bother in this plastic wheelbarrow and are expressing it in a relatively constructive way.

You're being a bully. You'd have thought you'd have grown out of that now by your age. It's quite pathetic.

He's not going to change his mind about driving the thing because you "add perspective" for the thousandth time, valuable though your insight* definitely* is. 

[Christine]

All the  Allegro needed was a Alfa Romeo  badge and grill , then it would have been everyones darling ..  And they lasted a bit longer than a Sud !  The estate was a good looker . 

[plasticvandan]

I bought a brown estate just to see if it was as bad as people said,I can't say I enjoyed driving it,mine was a 1500 manual,first time I had encountered understeer (almost all my stuff having been rwd) the gear change obviously well documented,steering I found behaved like it was winding a spring up,and wanted to revert to straight ahead as soon as it could ,vaguely remember my dad's maestro van being the same,it was however comfortable, spacious and went well.

[High Jetter]

3 minutes ago, Christine said:

All the  Allegro needed was a Alfa Romeo  badge and grill , then it would have been everyones darling ..  And they lasted a bit longer than a Sud !  The estate was a good looker . 

Allegros were sound. BL A series, hydrolastic FWD - sound familiar? I once viewed an estate for a friend, it looked sound. A couple of years later it fell apart, 'literally' the sides came off.

[D.E]

29 minutes ago, Christine said:

All the  Allegro needed was a Alfa Romeo  badge and grill , then it would have been everyones darling ..  And they lasted a bit longer than a Sud !  The estate was a good looker . 

Dutch car magazine Autokampioen held surveys investigating the reliability of many models in the 70s and 80s. With all the talk about dreadful BL products you'd expect them to score very poorly, but no. Owners seemed fairly content with their Allegro and the results were slighty above average, quite close to cars like the Kadett C and Mk II Escort. The only BL model that was a negative outlier was... the Mini, of which the conclusion was that it was starting to show its age, and was outdated in several aspects (this was in 1978)...

[BorniteIdentity]

19 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

“Allegros were awful and unfit for purpose" a fair few people on here would dispute that.

I think you totally misunderstand what the church of Autoshite was, before you joined the flock. It’s not the typical ‘car club’ full of men who plonk chairs behind their cars at shows, it’s not about adenoidal nerds endlessly extolling the virtues of heritage vehicles. 

Nope. 

Quite a few of us run old nails because they are shit, not in spite of them being so. Keeping old shite going - but being under no illusion that the same budget could buy something infinitely more practical, serviceable and sensible. Go through the old threads from many of the posters who’ve shuffled onto other pursuits - you’ll not find them posting endless pages of slobbering drivel, never trying to win an argument by just quoting dated reference after obsessively sourced research. 

They were simply buying the unloved, fixing and motoring. Even JMs endless passion for the 405 (2.0i auto) became a bit of a trope. I bet he’s moved on too. 

I am the first person to tell any admirer how shit my Sierra is. It’s the first thing I say. Hand on heart.

Anyway…

All I really wanted was to feel that you’d heard the concerns of those who sent up a warning flare. But it’ll never happen. It’s become to combative now. Just look at the reactions to various posters - it’s adversarial. One team vs the other. 

I wish you well with it, Dez - genuinely. But, despite all the research and internet sleuthing, I have to say this mate (and with the utmost affection). You haven’t got a fucking clue how hard it’s going to be storing, running, maintaining and enduring a totally unsuitable, 50 year old vehicle in 2024 London. That’s not your fault, because you’ve been duped by others. 

But I send you heartfelt good wishes. If you’ve good sense, you’ll take on board what some of the ‘doubters’ have said. There’s some priceless advice.

Good luck.👊🏻

[High Jetter]

Kadett was a tighter car, but skittish.