invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[captain_70s]

There's no point bleating on about motorway safety. Nobody is going to get out of a Moggy Thou or old Mini after a motorway smash and you see them on the road all the time.

Even my 740 isn't going to hold up to being rammed by a BMW X5 doing 90mph.

I saw an Austin 10 on the M8 a few months ago, flat out at 50mph leaving an impressive trail of blue smoke. Fuck that.

Once you're not doing motorway speeds you may as well accept you're not getting anywhere fast and take back roads.

Granted an Invacar is probably less safe even at "around town" speeds but ultimately it's Dez's choice as he'll be the one dying in an accident. If you declare Invacars too unsafe for use on modern roads you're as well banning all cars over 15 years old.

[big_al_granvia]

mate has a german bubble car (cant spell it), he drives it around greenock. he knows hitting anything bigger than a cat and its bye bye legs... before retiring he wrote risk assessments as a day job. he also has a wartberg, a austin cambridge but his daily is a skoda octavia... he is 6' 6"

[BorniteIdentity]

25 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

If you declare Invacars too unsafe for use on modern roads you're as well banning all cars over 15 years old.

Dude. I like you - one of my favourite legendary shiters.

But really? I’m stood waiting for a train here and thought I’d take a photo of the first 15 year old car I could see in the car park. 
 

Nobody here is saying this is unsafe. What they are saying is plastic bath tubs condemned by the government 40 years ago don’t make sensible first cars for the unemployed seeking fulfilment. 

It’s fucking la-la-land. 

[treehugger]

So a twenty years old Mondeo is unsafe even if it's not rotten? Nah. 

[Datsuncog]

I don't think this has cropped up on this thread previously - but speaking of priests and invalid cars, Paddy Hopkirk reckoned he learned the basics of rallying while raking his first car, a 1922 Harding with the Co. Down registration IJ9670, around a nearby private estate. It had been left to him in the will of the local priest. He was nine at the time.

"The Harding was made in Bath; it had a 250cc side valve JAP engine, a three-speed motorcycle gearbox and tiller steering. I had no idea what rallying even was back then, but I was interested in cars and mechanics so to actually get my hands on something that I could drive was exciting.

 I got permission to drive it round the dirt roads of a nearby private estate. The brakes only worked on the rear wheels so it used to skid, that’s how I learned about car control and how to make handbrake turns.

When kids learn to ride a bicycle they think it’s great, they go too fast and knock their teeth out. Well, I didn’t want to do that with this car, my first car, because it was wonderful. I’ve had very few crashes in my life, if any, I’m lucky I’m not very good at it.

I drove it on the road once, with my elder brother who had a licence. We didn’t go very far and it only did about 30mph – it had a very unreliable air-cooled engine. Of course, I became quite a good mechanic because it used to break down a lot. I learned how to rebuild it and therefore learned a lot about the engineering of cars."

He lost interest in it once he started on motorbikes, and it was believed to have been taken away for scrap around the time of a house move in the mid-1940s - but much later he followed a lead and tracked the same car down in London, disassembled, where he then had it built it up and restored by friends and course tutors from a motor engineering charity he worked with.

After some charity runs, Hopkirk's Harding was then kept at the British Motor Museum at Gaydon (though I can't find a current listing for it in their collections catalogue).

The One That Got Away: Paddy Hopkirk’s first car | Hagerty UK

[captain_70s]

32 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

Dude. I like you - one of my favourite legendary shiters.

But really? I’m stood waiting for a train here and thought I’d take a photo of the first 15 year old car I could see in the car park. 
 

Nobody here is saying this is unsafe. What they are saying is plastic bath tubs condemned by the government 40 years ago don’t make sensible first cars for the unemployed seeking fulfilment. 

It’s fucking la-la-land. 

Safe compared to what? A new Range Rover? Don't think so. Compared to a mk2 Escort? Sure.

The Rover Metro was famously unsafe when new, so was the Lada Riva. Do they warrant a ban from modern roads for being considered unsafe even when current?

How dead will you be crashing an Invacar vs a Bond Minicar? 

Safety is relative.

I don't think the Invacar is a valid daily, I think it'll be a weight around Dez's neck. I think a Morris Thousand would be equally as shit. Ultimately it's his choice though. I sentenced myself to years of classic car daily misery, sometimes you have to make your own mistakes.

[lesapandre]

I've driven a 35 year old Citroën C15 van all over France this summer - it would probably fold up like sardine tin in an accident. But hey...

[BorniteIdentity]

41 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

Safe compared to what? A new Range Rover?

If we’re going to do comparisons, then let’s make them like for like. 15 year old Audi A3/4 vs New Range Rover would likely get the same outcome as Mini 1000 vs Volvo 240.  There’s always been imbalance on the road.

What I’m saying here is saying that Mini 1000 vs New FFRR would be lethal. Especially with a totally inexperienced driver at the wheel of one in a city that takes no prisoners. It’s not a playground for goofing about on, it’s fierce. 

Anyone can say STFU all they like, but the right thing here (unlike when everyone egged on the drug taking lunatic with an Alvis) is to keep saying it out loud. 

It’s a terrible idea. 

[Snake Charmer]

Mot this afternoon in a 65 year old fibreglass car, will I live to 4 o'clock? 🫣 

[BorniteIdentity]

Just now, Snake Charmer said:

Mot this afternoon in a 65 year old fibreglass car, will I live to 4 o'clock? 🫣 

How long have you been driving for?

[captain_70s]

27 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

It’s a terrible idea. 

Everybody who needs to know already knows.

I know that step one of angle grinder use shouldn't be "remove guard and grip", yet that's exactly what I did. I know it's a bad idea and it's a good argument against people being allowed to use power tools without supervision and training. Even after I've had multiple cutting discs explode in use I still don't use the fucking guard. 

When I lose an eye I'll rethink things, but until then I'm probably going to continue being a fucking idiot.

[chadders]

36 minutes ago, BorniteIdentity said:

If we’re going to do comparisons, then let’s make them like for like. 15 year old Audi A3/4 vs New Range Rover would likely get the same outcome as Mini 1000 vs Volvo 240.  There’s always been imbalance on the road.

What I’m saying here is saying that Mini 1000 vs New FFRR would be lethal. Especially with a totally inexperienced driver at the wheel of one in a city that takes no prisoners. It’s not a playground for goofing about on, it’s fierce. 

Anyone can say STFU all they like, but the right thing here (unlike when everyone egged on the drug taking lunatic with an Alvis) is to keep saying it out loud. 

It’s a terrible idea. 

I suspect that an Invacare will also be below the sightlines of quite a few vehicles whereas a Moggy Thou would be a lot more noticeable and probably have more energy absorbing ability.

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, chadders said:

I suspect that an Invacare will also be below the sightlines of quite a few vehicles whereas a Moggy Thou would be a lot more noticeable and probably have more energy absorbing ability.

a Model 70 is a surprisingly tall vehicle, 

I dont think people quite realise just how *big* an Invacar is! I mean obviously its small compared to most vehicles, but its much bigger then any sort of microcar/bubble car people normally compare them with

 

[lesapandre]

23 minutes ago, chadders said:

I suspect that an Invacare will also be below the sightlines of quite a few vehicles whereas a Moggy Thou would be a lot more noticeable and probably have more energy absorbing ability.

I think bright turquoise trumps it for visuals.

Interesting to see that parked comparison. Yes larger than I thought.*

(*not often I can say that these days 😂)

[lesapandre]

31 minutes ago, Snake Charmer said:

Mot this afternoon in a 65 year old fibreglass car, will I live to 4 o'clock? 🫣 

Rochdale Olympic?*

*(yes I know what it is really - gosh lucky you).

[chadders]

20 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

a Model 70 is a surprisingly tall vehicle, 

I dont think people quite realise just how *big* an Invacar is! I mean obviously its small compared to most vehicles, but its much bigger then any sort of microcar/bubble car people normally compare them with

 

I don't have the measurements to hand but it looks tiny compared to that SD1 which would be dwarfed by most of today's pseudo 4x4s etc..Even the Reliant Kitten dwarfs it.

It might be bigger than a bubblecar but that's not saying much is it? 

Maybe put an aerial on the roof with a flag on it so there's more chance of it being noticed? I'd be very careful which flag though.

[adw1977]

10 minutes ago, chadders said:

looks tiny compared to that SD1

But taller, which answers the original point about it being below sight lines in modern vehicles. 

[Snake Charmer]

31 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

Rochdale Olympic?*

*(yes I know what it is really - gosh lucky you).

I don't fit the car, the wheel is on my knees and the hanbrake sits on my shin.  Also no seat belts so my knees and face are the crumple zones.  

[D.E]

16 minutes ago, chadders said:

Maybe put an aerial on the roof with a flag on it so there's more chance of it being noticed? 

+ lamps and a wing to improve performance and nighttime visibility.

[barefoot]

58 minutes ago, chadders said:

a Moggy Thou would be a lot more noticeable

I understand when crashed, due to the thickness of multiple panels and their inability to crumple, a Morry Thou actually rings like a bell.

[Noel Tidybeard]

the blue whistle has most likely got moar structural rgidity the a certain pair of triumphs on here🤣

[New POD]

2 hours ago, big_al_granvia said:

mate has a german bubble car (cant spell it), he drives it around greenock. he knows hitting anything bigger than a cat and its bye bye legs... before retiring he wrote risk assessments as a day job. he also has a wartberg, a austin cambridge but his daily is a skoda octavia... he is 6' 6"

But safer than riding a motorbike on the wrong side of a blind bend at high speed?  Safer than riding a bike with no lights down the local Bypass. 

It's all relative. 

[BorniteIdentity]

1 hour ago, New POD said:

But safer than riding a motorbike on the wrong side of a blind bend at high speed?  Safer than riding a bike with no lights down the local Bypass. 

It's all relative. 

We talked about this already. 

On a motorbike, you get knocked flying 100m and land in a ditch/field.

In this you’ve got a lawnmower engine up your rectum sideways and a fucking big headache. 

Which would you prefer?

[lesapandre]

There are people who enjoy the latter - believe me. 😂

Particularly popular in Berlin [so I'm told] though of course there it's a Trabant engine.

[plasticvandan]

Having had a 50mph crash in a Reliant,and a 50mph crash on an MZ,I can confirm the motorcycle was less painful.The MZ is also still going,the Reliant needed a dustpan.

[SmokinWaffle]

11 hours ago, BorniteIdentity said:

I will then bow out of this thread

[silvercar]

4 hours ago, Snake Charmer said:

I don't fit the car, the wheel is on my knees and the hanbrake sits on my shin.  Also no seat belts so my knees and face are the crumple zones.  

Many many moons ago my then neighbour proudly announced he had just imported a lotus from Singapore and invited me to look it over.

it was a two door thing, tiny, and very pretty in yellow. Now I’m not that up on Loti but I think it was the coupe version of an Elan (60’s).

I literally could not fit in to it. At all

 

[BorniteIdentity]

58 minutes ago, SmokinWaffle said:

All he has to do is - in the spirit of a forum - answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer.

For a kid so bloody clever, it’s not beyond him. 

[warren t claim]

It goes without saying that cars are much safer now than back in the 1970s. If Gloria Jones had been driving a 2022 Mini Cuntryman rather than a 1972 1275 GT then Marc Bolan would today be cashing his cheque for performing at Butlins in Minehead earlier this year. 

Secondary safety is relative as it all comes down to understanding how vulnerable you are. If @LightBulbFun drives to the letter of the law and according to The Highway Code then, believe it or not, he's going to be killed or seriously injured. He has to be able to read the road and develop a sense of hazard perception that extends so far beyond what is required on the DSA theory test it has to border on Extra Sensory Perception. Being "in the right" in the event of an accident matters fuck all when the Range Rover that hit you in a collision that resulted you spending two years in Stoke Mandeville, a longer time than the length of disqualification the driver of said Range Rover had to serve. It's not enough to see the car approaching the give way junction of his left, he has to see the car concerned and make a potentially lifesaving split second decision as to whether that car is going to bother giving way to him. If it's a nearly new Audi S3 driven by a coked up scaffolder with his bird in the passenger seat then assume he's going to ignore your right of way. Things get even more trickier if the car is something like a ten year old Toyota Yaris as he'll need to make an even more involved decision. If the Yaris is being driven by a lady in her 60s who's probably got 30 years NCB then he can assume that she's seen him and will give way. On the other hand if the Yaris looks like it is being piloted by an illegal immigrant doing Just Eat deliveries Dez has to assume that the driver will be paying more attention to the Samsung stuck to the middle of the Toyota's windscreen and is likely to not to have noticed REV.

I'm not going to claim that I'm some kind of driving god, in fact I'd go so far to say that there have been times when my roadcraft would suggest that I'm unfit to drive a greasy stick up a dead pigs arse, let alone a motor vehicle! One thing I can comment on though is in my entire driving career since 1987 90% of the estimated two million miles I have driven have been without wearing a seat belt, either due to being legally exempt due to my job or due to the lack of police enforcement which was the norm back in the last century. This raises the question of who would be more likely to survive a collision, @LightBulbFun in his Model 70 wearing a belt or @warren t claim driving either a family saloon or LTI TX? It's also fair to point out that my annual mileage exceeds 50000. REV will be lucky to cover 1500 miles within the same time period. 

[BorniteIdentity]

No no no. Because back when Savile was at the top of his game and Jimmy Greaves was still scoring for fun, some pervy old Priest was clocking up Pan-European miles whilst listening to Showaddywaddy on his ghetto blaster. 

Can’t wait for the great success this will be 💪👊🏻