invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Missy Charm]

7 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Know the street? I was born around there, late 1960.

Not a clue, I'm afraid.  Sorry!

[Mally]

10 hours ago, Missy Charm said:

Silly idea: would a motorcycle mechanic be better suited to Dez's needs?  

You have only been here for 5 minutes.  It's already obvious to me you are not as  silly as you may think.

 

Slightly left field, but try these Des ,   https://www.nabd.org.uk/

Very helpful and knowledgeable.  Run some good Do's as well.

[brownnova]

On 28/12/2021 at 11:40, LightBulbFun said:

sadly getting ahold of him is quite difficult, turns out due to someone trying to force entry into his home at one point in time, he does not answer the door, so the only way to catch him is by pot luck, and keeping an ear out for the burble of a Rover V8!

Note through the door with your number on? 

[dollywobbler]

Thing is, the brakes are absolutely nothing to worry a garage that knows classics. It's mostly all just off-the-shelf components shared with many other vehicles of the era. But some garages do just have blanket policies. I remember my local garage refusing to even look at the brakes on my first 2CV. I would later discover that inspecting the front brakes involves nothing more involved than lifting the bonnet...

[mitsisigma01]

If you're on about changing the whole from the master cylinder right through to the wheel cylinders , gather all the replacement parts first then should you try yourself or get someone else to do it there is no reason why it can't be completed in one session , no having to wait for spares . 

When I did the Sigma the pipe across the rear axle was the only one that needed changing ... Ended up doing the whole lot right to the front as every joint was as tight as a nuns c... or made of cheese 🙈

[LightBulbFun]

did some more poking on REV, I was going to give it a few days as I am still feeling quite broken from Tuesday but @Mrs6C gave me a very good suggestion of make sure the brake fluid level was not too high and that the breather in the cap was not blocked

and I knew that REV's brake fluid reservoir was quite full, so figured this was good shout and so inspired me put my arse into gear and give it a poke,

after emptying a little fluid out with a syringe  (about 15cc's worth) and leaving the cap off while trying the brakes 

sadly the issue still persisted (at least this time I managed to grab a video of it without my phone dying LOL) but it was a good shout  I also took the opportunity to jack the other side up confirmed that the issue is exactly the same on the other side 

you can see how the wheel spins freely and then locks up and stays locked up after application and release of the brakes (of course typically in the video it still moved a little bit, but it was clearly still binding and I have had it lock up completely in previous and later attempts)

 

(I also gave all the brake unions and bleed nipples a drowning in penetrating fluid for when they need to be removed)

 

the outing wasnot an entirely fruitless endeavour however as I was also able to replace the windscreen wiper blade with a new one which seems to work pretty well  

(although my windscreen is still in dire need of a clean but that can wait until I can get to the £5 car wash down the road, and I noticed in the video its not clearing the top part properly, wonder if the spring is a bit weak, but ill have to double check it at some point)

[dollywobbler]

That brake fluid looks nasty! I'd consider bleeding it through with fresh fluid. 

For those not in the know, rear wheels on an Invacar are never as free as a normal car because of the transmission drag. But there is clearly something amiss here. 

LBF - if you jam the brakes on, then open the bleed nipple, what happens? If fluid spurts out, it suggests a hose issue holding pressure at the wheel cylinder. 

[Mr Pastry]

Do the brakes release themselves if you leave them for a bit, or if you operate the handbrake?  What does the front brake do when tested in the same way?

[Yoss]

Is the wet shiny shiny stuff under the reservoir brake fluid? If so wash it off with lots of water, it strips paint. That also looks like a copper brake pipe going side to side. If so that's one that won't need replacing. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, mitsisigma01 said:

If you're on about changing the whole from the master cylinder right through to the wheel cylinders , gather all the replacement parts first then should you try yourself or get someone else to do it there is no reason why it can't be completed in one session , no having to wait for spares . 

When I did the Sigma the pipe across the rear axle was the only one that needed changing ... Ended up doing the whole lot right to the front as every joint was as tight as a nuns c... or made of cheese 🙈

Yeah I was thinking last night of just knuckling down and seeing if I can replace everything on the car, I even put together a little list of items I need

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunson-G4062-Eezibleed-Comma-Clutch/dp/B01MPWW4MD/ref=rvi_1/259-6720974-2819155

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Brake-Burning-situ-16-SAE/dp/B01M4RC2YW/ref=rvi_4/259-6720974-2819155

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cutter-Cutting-3-28mm-Copper-Aluminum/dp/B083BSCPJP/ref=rvi_3/259-6720974-2819155

(as well as appropriate brake hardware itself etc of course but I plan to get that from MEV Spares when they open after the new year, I already have a nice big roll of kunifer brake pipe here at home)

but I think to get the wheel cylinders out and new ones in you do have to take apart the brakes apart which is a right bastard of a job and thats where I fear ill get stuck 

 

even just jacking the car up is a lot of effort for me and leaves me quite knackered before I have even started any work, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend an easy to work and light weight jack? REV is only 413kg so does not need to be able to jack up @Six-cylinder's JCB or anything!

I have this jack currently https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07821GDGQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

which works well, but takes a lot of effort to actually get the car up in the air so I was wondering if there was anything easier out there? (keep in mind it need to be as light weight as possible as I have to lug it up and down 3 stories!)

 

48 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

That brake fluid looks nasty! I'd consider bleeding it through with fresh fluid. 

For those not in the know, rear wheels on an Invacar are never as free as a normal car because of the transmission drag. But there is clearly something amiss here. 

LBF - if you jam the brakes on, then open the bleed nipple, what happens? If fluid spurts out, it suggests a hose issue holding pressure at the wheel cylinder. 

yeah I have been saying from day one that I dont think its supposed to look like maple syrup! LOL

good shout on trying one of the bleed nipples! will have to give one of the nipples a poke (fnar) next time I am tinkering with REV, need to figure out what size spanner I need, I know I have sockets in the right size but I dont think I have a spanner that small

45 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Do the brakes release themselves if you leave them for a bit, or if you operate the handbrake?  What does the front brake do when tested in the same way?

I did notice that when I came back to the rear wheel I had played with on Tuesday that it was rotating freely so I think over time they do free off, but im not 100% sure

45 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Is the wet shiny shiny stuff under the reservoir brake fluid? If so wash it off with lots of water, it strips paint. That also looks like a copper brake pipe going side to side. If so that's one that won't need replacing. 

umm I dont think so... well the brake fluid level has never changed in the 2 years I have had her (until I took some out of course and I was very careful not to spill any for reasons you say)

but maybe its something historic? (the brown thing going side to side in the shot above the horn and the bonnet stay is just the +12V wire for the electric fuel pump, which is what you can hear rumbling away in the wiper video ) 

[dollywobbler]

I've just remembered that the last time I tried taking a wheel cylinder off TWC, the union was seized into the wheel cylinder. I'd get soaking those in penetrating oil ASAP even if you don't attempt to move them. Same goes for the bleed nipples really.

[Talbot]

On 12/29/2021 at 3:48 PM, LightBulbFun said:

doesn't matter that she is mechanically much simpler then a modern,

The simplicity/complexity isn't the issue here, it's the fact that it's not what they have experience with.  My local Merc specialist that I bore on about all the time has on several occasions now employed me to assist with vehicles that have points/carburettors on them as the guy who runs the place (who is only slightly younger than I) works on modernz.  He has absolutely no issue with modern Turbodiesel common-rail, million-sensor engines and so on,  but  mention an emulsion tube or dwell angle to him and he glazes over.

You just need an old-boy motor engineer.  Not a "fitter".

[LightBulbFun]

57 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

I've just remembered that the last time I tried taking a wheel cylinder off TWC, the union was seized into the wheel cylinder. I'd get soaking those in penetrating oil ASAP even if you don't attempt to move them. Same goes for the bleed nipples really.

yep I made sure to dowse those appropriately  although if I end up replacing the lot roadside I can see myself just going a bit medieval and chopping the whole lot out rather then faff about with getting unions and nipples undone

35 minutes ago, Talbot said:

The simplicity/complexity isn't the issue here, it's the fact that it's not what they have experience with.  My local Merc specialist that I bore on about all the time has on several occasions now employed me to assist with vehicles that have points/carburettors on them as the guy who runs the place (who is only slightly younger than I) works on modernz.  He has absolutely no issue with modern Turbodiesel common-rail, million-sensor engines and so on,  but  mention an emulsion tube or dwell angle to him and he glazes over.

You just need an old-boy motor engineer.  Not a "fitter".

Yeah thats exactly the problem I feared and look to be up against with regards to finding a garage to do the work

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

Do the brakes release themselves if you leave them for a bit, or if you operate the handbrake?  What does the front brake do when tested in the same way?

forgot to mention in the above post, but I have not touched the front yet, it was cold when I got back from the chippy so I dont think its binding up, but I have not checked, as I was knackered by the time I was done poking the rear of the car, but yeah I do want to check it just incase 

 

I also noticed the sump plug is now weeping for good measure, not sure if I have not tightened it up enough (as it is an ally sump and I dont want to strip the threads) or if the little copper washer has had enough 

[Mr Pastry]

Thinking in terms of getting the car mobile so it can be got to a friendly garage.

My gut feeling is that the rear brakes might free off with a bit of use.  The pistons are not seized, as the brakes are coming on and eventually releasing.  A collapsed hose isn't likely both sides at the same time and it is a rare thing anyway, so it's probably not a hydraulic issue.  Yes the cylinders and fluid should be changed, but that is not the immediate problem.

The failure mode is likely to be that the cylinders start leaking and losing fluid, followed by loss of pedal/handlebar pressure. 

Check that the brakes are adjusted as per service manual and not nipped up too tight.

From what I have seen, access to the wheel cylinders and brake shoes is difficult because of the hub design, and I think Dez you are right to be cautious about dismantling too much.  It's not a nice job especially the first time and on your own, and you could end up with a pile of bits and no brakes at all.   For the same reason personally I wouldn't mess with the bleed nipples unless you absolutely have to.  

Because of the single leading shoe design and the weight transfer effect, rear drums will sometimes free off after a few applications in reverse when it is safe to do so.  I would not recommend that, of course. 

And you will have to do something about that exhaust before going anywhere.  It does sound a bit antisocial. 

 

[JJ0063]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

 

even just jacking the car up is a lot of effort for me and leaves me quite knackered before I have even started any work, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend an easy to work and light weight jack? REV is only 413kg so does not need to be able to jack up @Six-cylinder's JCB or anything!

I have this jack currently https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07821GDGQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

which works well, but takes a lot of effort to actually get the car up in the air so I was wondering if there was anything easier out there? (keep in mind it need to be as light weight as possible as I have to lug it up and down 3 stories!)

 

Forgive me if I’m missing something here LBF but can you not just leave the jack in the car rather than lugging it up to your house each time?! You’re going to need it often by the looks of it, and I can’t imagine a little jack is going to be much of a risk to thieves - just stick a rag over it or something to hide it if it has to be left on display. 
 

A little trolley jack would be easier for you to pump rather than wind, just get one and leave it in the car.

[AdgeCutler]

At last I've managed to sneak out of work and family commitments and have a day out with Brian the Mk12e.  The task was to get the chassis, floor and some reproduced fixtures drilled to enable it all to fit together, I'm not quite finished but most of the more critical holes have been drilled. All this was made quite  tricky due to the fact that the original components are so rotten and lacking rigidity and also have great chunks missing entirely due to rust. It is also true that InvaCar must have hired a Chimp or drunkard to do this job originally as a lot of the holes on the old chassis had been double drilled or slotted, this also made the job harder.  All that remains to be done drilling wise now is to drill a series of rivet holes along the outrigger flanges/floor, this shouldn't take so long as the six hours taken measuring, measuring again, fitting up, removing, measuring again and marking, drilling, re-fitting (yes I'm a slow worker!). Once they're drilled it can all come apart once again, clean and wire brush the new chassis which is still covered in flux and also starting to show surface rust and then slap a bit of paint on.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

At last I've managed to sneak out of work and family commitments and have a day out with Brian the Mk12e.  The task was to get the chassis, floor and some reproduced fixtures drilled to enable it all to fit together, I'm not quite finished but most of the more critical holes have been drilled. All this was made quite  tricky due to the fact that the original components are so rotten and lacking rigidity and also have great chunks missing entirely due to rust. It is also true that InvaCar must have hired a Chimp or drunkard to do this job originally as a lot of the holes on the old chassis had been double drilled or slotted, this also made the job harder.  All that remains to be done drilling wise now is to drill a series of rivet holes along the outrigger flanges/floor, this shouldn't take so long as the six hours taken measuring, measuring again, fitting up, removing, measuring again and marking, drilling, re-fitting (yes I'm a slow worker!). Once they're drilled it can all come apart once again, clean and wire brush the new chassis which is still covered in flux and also starting to show surface rust and then slap a bit of paint on.

its really awesome to see how Brian is continuing to come together!

I trust that you do plan to rust proof and paint the chassis before everything is put together for for the final time?  

after you done with Brian you should be able to write a proper old school haynes manual on the Invacar Mk12E with how in depth you have gone! 

[Mally]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

did some more poking on REV, I was going to give it a few days as I am still feeling quite broken from Tuesday but @Mrs6C gave me a very good suggestion of make sure the brake fluid level was not too high and that the breather in the cap was not blocked

and I knew that REV's brake fluid reservoir was quite full, so figured this was good shout and so inspired me put my arse into gear and give it a poke,

after emptying a little fluid out with a syringe  (about 15cc's worth) and leaving the cap off while trying the brakes 

sadly the issue still persisted (at least this time I managed to grab a video of it without my phone dying LOL) but it was a good shout  I also took the opportunity to jack the other side up confirmed that the issue is exactly the same on the other side 

you can see how the wheel spins freely and then locks up and stays locked up after application and release of the brakes (of course typically in the video it still moved a little bit, but it was clearly still binding and I have had it lock up completely in previous and later attempts)

 

 

 

The brakes don't seem to be sticking too badly there. You can get that effect if the drums are rusty.

The new copper brake pipe needs clipping with cable ties or it will break eventually.

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, Mally said:

The brakes don't seem to be sticking too badly there. You can get that effect if the drums are rusty.

The new copper brake pipe needs clipping with cable ties or it will break eventually.

typically for the video it didn't want to play up as much as it normally does! but yeah I do want to do some more poking and maybe runs up and down the dead end (as well as actually seeing about getting the wheel and drum off)

but I need to figure out a better jack solution  first that does not wipe me out before I have even done any poking!

(I dont want leave anything in the car as knowing my luck that will draw undue attention to her!)

 

ah thats not a brake pipe! (does look like one tho ill give you that) its the +12V feed to the electric fuel pump I have bodged in  

you can see the actual brake pipes and a junction with the brake light switch behind it

 

[Mally]

I see, clip the wire then 😀

[Jikovron]

Folding axle stands

Inflatable jack

These might work as an easygoing solution, you could stand around smoking a cigar and quickly eating homemade chips etc whilst the stehr exhaust does the light lifting work, then just cooly let it down onto a nifty stand! As a possibility you could possibly clip the stands under the dash and stow the bag behind the seat maybe 

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Jikovron said:

Folding axle stands

Inflatable jack

These might work as an easygoing solution, you could stand around smoking a cigar and quickly eating homemade chips etc whilst the stehr exhaust does the light lifting work, then just cooly let it down onto a nifty stand! As a possibility you could possibly clip the stands under the dash and stow the bag behind the seat maybe 

 

I actually have a pair of those folding axle stands! or ones that look identical at least!   they are very handy indeed, they where very kindly given to me by @Mrs6C/@Six-cylinder when they came over to help with REV early last month

the infallible jack is quite nifty! although I dont think it will fit REV's exhaust as it has a bend right at the end (and the exhaust blow means id lose all my inflation pressure) 

however looks like it would be something quite handy to have at the FoD mind given how many times I have seen jacks and what have you sink into the ground!

especially if someone can hook it up a Turbo outlet rather then the exhaust for some speedier inflation times LOL

[mitsisigma01]

How big is the boot , room for your Jack and at least one axle stand ,have you got any wheel chocks , or can you reverse up to the kerb behind your parking bay, slightly off square so one wheel is against the kerb but the other is far enough off to allow work on the other. Does the road have an extreme camber , if so turn the steering partially up hill and chocked ....

I personally wouldn't want to get under a car with a jack like yours , an old small trolley jack that looks so shit nobody would bother nicking it would be best to leave in a car ....

I assume that your full closure GPS tracking alarm is all working 😁

[Sheefag]

£51.18 - VEVOR 12volt 3 Ton Electric Car Jack

 

 

 

 

[captain_70s]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

(I dont want leave anything in the car as knowing my luck that will draw undue attention to her!)

I think the by the merit of being an Invacar in 2021 it is already on a 11/10 on the attention scale. Of course it depends on how valuable your jack looks...

[warren t claim]

5 hours ago, Sheefag said:

£51.18 - VEVOR 12volt 3 Ton Electric Car Jack

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that back in the early 80s you could buy an airbag jack that inflated by connecting a hose to the exhaust pipe.

[warren t claim]

I wish you well with this and I hope you haven't bitten off more than you can chew. 

Having the spare funds to buy a car is only half the story, it's the finances needed to maintain their upkeep as a daily that will drain your bank account and leave you heartbroken. My dream saloon is the Lancia Thema 8.32 with the Ferrari (NOT CAGIVA) engine and during the height of the pandemic I could have bought one using a government Bounce Back loan and achieved my dream. The sad reality is that even as a second car covering only a few thousand miles a year it would almost certainly require expensive specialist fettling that's beyond my abilities. I feared that something would fail meaning that it'd end up sitting rotting away on Claim_Bird's driveway developing even more issues due to inactivity.

I'm not suggesting that you sell REV but maybe explore the avenue of obtaining a council garage to store it in and buying a slightly more sensible daily driver? 

Anyway, here's a picture from Liverpool. 

[warren t claim]

Although chalk and cheese, when I was 18 and still at school doing my A Levels I got my long awaited inheritance and decided to "invest" it in buying one of these from current YouTuber Ian Tyrell. My family went crazy at the thought of be blowing everything that Claim_Grandad had worked so hard for and after a nasty family argument I backed down.

With the benefit of hindsight, what the fuck was I thinking at the time? A fucking schoolboy trying to daily a 70s supercar???

[JJ0063]

9 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

(I dont want leave anything in the car as knowing my luck that will draw undue attention to her!)

 

You do realise that more cars than not actually come with a jack as standard?! You having a little jack left either in the footwell or if it has some kind of boot space is not going to cause any extra attention to it. 
 

[Sheefag]

4 hours ago, warren t claim said:

I'm pretty sure that back in the early 80s you could buy an airbag jack that inflated by connecting a hose to the exhaust pipe.

You still can. Trouble is tiny engine and...