Event Bulgaria Fest - Task complete

[rantingYoof]

Your situation reminds me of a holiday we once did in Paris many years ago.

 

The day before flying out, it was 38 degrees C, sunny, dry, hot.

The temperature dropped to 28 degrees C overnight and there were thunderstorms to end all thunderstorms.

And the next day, instead of the lovely crisp and cooler conditions that follow, it was 36 degrees C, with full cloud cover.

 

We landed in the UK later that day to 20 degrees and drizzle, and I think we all stood just outside the plane with our arms open going 'AAAAAHhhhhhh'.

[Talbot]

I think there's still concern that UK residents can't legally drive it in the UK,

I know a fair bit of research has been done on this, but if the car's insured for the driver driving it, I don't quite see why not. When I lived in NL (granted, MANY years ago) my father used to regularly bring his NL registered car back over here to the UK and drive it on UK roads on a UK driving license. We were all still UK residents with UK passports, but as long as the car was legal in it's registered country (which of course it was) then no issue.

[loserone]

I think the obvious answer is to pick up Dave numbers and get him to drive it as a foreigner

[wuvvum]

At the moment, my thoughts are to ditch the Dacia in Wales and head north in the Invacar for Shitefest.

FTFY.

[jollysmart]

I know a fair bit of research has been done on this, but if the car's insured for the driver driving it, I don't quite see why not. When I lived in NL (granted, MANY years ago) my father used to regularly bring his NL registered car back over here to the UK and drive it on UK roads on a UK driving license. We were all still UK residents with UK passports, but as long as the car was legal in it's registered country (which of course it was) then no issue.

UK resident can't drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK, fine if you live elsewhere but not for UK resident. Only exception would be trade plates although nobody seems to know anyone prosecuted for doing it. You were an NL resident so a visitor even though still a UK citizen you weren't resident here. Police round here used to be keen on foreign registered cars being resident here and not registered here, having said that there is a Toyota Yaris close to where I live which has been here at least 2 years and is still bearing German plates.

[vaughant]

The Aircon issue could be a badly blocked air filter, if it's easy to access, clip the front off (don't normally need tools) and you'll most likely find an inch of fluff everywhere, it then can't process the room temp air and may even look frozen in parts.

 

Chodspeed.

[Talbot]

UK resident can't drive a foreign registered vehicle in the UK, fine if you live elsewhere but not for UK resident.

We were still UK residents, still owned a home in the UK, on the electoral role in the UK etc.etc. Although we "lived" in NL, it was a rented house, and we came back to the UK every month or so.

 

Is this a specific statute of law, or is it just not specifically stated as being legal? I know if a car is in the UK for a period of time it needs to be re-registered here, but that is at least 6 months, if not longer.

 

I have a Polish colleague who brought a car back from Poland a while back and was driving it in the UK. He has a UK license, is a UK resident (been here for about 10 years) and the car was insured with a UK insurer. He'd done a fair bit of research as to how he could drive it here before re-registering it, and came to the conclusion that while it's not specifically stated as being legal, it doesn't fall foul of any specific law either, so is not an offence.

[beko1987]

Just ask hairnet to drive it to Scotland. After 3 minutes plod will give up and wave you on your way!

 

Any of our resident trade plate holders coming to shitefest? I'm sure we would all chip in a beer if they popped to yours and came up with you so the plates were legal...

 

 

*I don't know how any of the above works BTW...

[Tadhg Tiogar]

.....Is this a specific statute of law, or is it just not specifically stated as being legal? I know if a car is in the UK for a period of time it needs to be re-registered here, but that is at least 6 months, if not longer.I have a Polish colleague who brought a car back from Poland a while back and was driving it in the UK. He has a UK license, is a UK resident (been here for about 10 years) and the car was insured with a UK insurer. He'd done a fair bit of research as to how he could drive it here before re-registering it, and came to the conclusion that while it's not specifically stated as being legal, it doesn't fall foul of any specific law either, so is not an offence.

It's illegal. If you are normally resident in the UK, regardless of your nationality, then your car must not carry foreign plates

 

Some police forces have cracked down in the recent past, but the Met down here seems to let RO / BG / H plated RHD cars (many still carrying UK dealer stickers) get away with impunity. The Romanian-plated cars are of particular interest because their format is identical to the British one, so plate-cloning will occur. Two examples I've seen in the past week:

 

GL 10 ZPT carried by a BMW 530d shows up on DVLA as a Nissan

 

BN 05 RWL carried by a VW Tiguan shows on DVLA as a Citroën.

 

When all's said and done, do you feel lucky?

[Talbot]

I've just had a good read over on PePiPoo.com (motoring legal forum for anyone who's not been there) and it seems that even with some very experienced lawyers posting, there's no consensus and no firm answer.

 

As far as I can tell:

 

It depends who you ask as to whether you have 6 months from the date of import to re-register the vehicle in the UK. Some sources state this is only for non-residents, but some reports state that the DVLA apply that 6-month allowance regardless of the residency of the driver.

 

There is no specific offence of "UK resident driver driving a foreign registered vehicle", it would boil down to an insurance issue, in that any vehicle used on UK roads needs to have UK valid insurance, which foreign issued insurance likely would not cover. This is very grey and no-one really has an answer for it.

 

The Police, in general, are not sure what they are or are not looking for, and if you can show that the vehicle is legal in it's country of registration, are generally quite happy with that.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

....There is no specific offence of "UK resident driver driving a foreign registered vehicle", it would boil down to an insurance issue, in that any vehicle used on UK roads needs to have UK valid insurance, which foreign issued insurance likely would not cover. This is very grey and no-one really has an answer for it......

Should we test this by colliding with a Romanian-registered car, and then reporting to AS on what happens next?

 

I think we'd all like some sort of definitive answer to this!

[Eddie Honda]

it would boil down to an insurance issue, in that any vehicle used on UK roads needs to have UK valid insurance, which foreign issued insurance likely would not cover. This is very grey and no-one really has an answer for it.

 

No it wouldn't under 2009/103/EC EU motor insurance policies are valid throughout the EU. The UK is still in the EU.

 

It's illegal. If you are normally resident in the UK, regardless of your nationality, then your car must not carry foreign plates

 

As pointed out in the Huggies link, the only offences to be done for are:

 

S.29(1) VERA 1994 and/or S.47(1) RTA 1988. That's "no road tax" or "no MOT".

 

Then again a S.29(1) offence doesn't occur when the vehicle is exempt. That's the case when going to/from pre-arranged MOT.

 

The are a few other offences, but these seem to have statutory defences of "no reasonable opportunity". That's the "I've only just arrived" get-out.

 

 

tl;dr: If it's insurance, drive it.

[dollywobbler]

Thanks folks. Interesting stuff. We are running on the Romanian insurance at the moment, but I plan to upgrade that to UK insurance when we get back. Does no MOT apply if the car has its home equivalent and is still registered there? I would suggest it does not. Wonder if that has been tested?

 

I guess I was feeling it was very risky due to the number of times we have been stopped. Mind you, we managed to sneak into Italy via the tiniest road imaginable and haven't seen any Italian Police at all.

[dollywobbler]

Also, I've just woken up, which suggests I somehow got some sleep in this shitty, horribly hot hotel. I feel bad for Cats, as he booked it. We will see if we can do better tonight.

[dollywobbler]

Just as I'm losing the will to ever visit Italy again, I get a pleasant surprise seconds after leaving the hotel.

[jollysmart]

We were still UK residents, still owned a home in the UK, on the electoral role in the UK etc.etc. Although we "lived" in NL, it was a rented house, and we came back to the UK every month or so.

 

Is this a specific statute of law, or is it just not specifically stated as being legal? I know if a car is in the UK for a period of time it needs to be re-registered here, but that is at least 6 months, if not longer.

 

I have a Polish colleague who brought a car back from Poland a while back and was driving it in the UK. He has a UK license, is a UK resident (been here for about 10 years) and the car was insured with a UK insurer. He'd done a fair bit of research as to how he could drive it here before re-registering it, and came to the conclusion that while it's not specifically stated as being legal, it doesn't fall foul of any specific law either, so is not an offence.

 

This from the UK government probably answers the questions:-

 

Temporary imports

 

You can usually use a vehicle with foreign number plates without registering or taxing it in the UK if ALL of the following apply:

 

you’re visiting and don’t plan to live here

 

the vehicle is registered and taxed in its home country

 

you only use the vehicle for up to 6 months in total - this can be a single visit, or several shorter visits over 12 months.

 

I suspect the legal part is that you are not taxing the vehicle in the UK so you are effectively defrauding the Revenue and there is no proof the vehicle is road worthy as it will not be MOT'd. and the UK doesn't have the 2 year MOT that other EU countries have. I have never heard of any UK citizen falling foul of the rules and being fined.

 

 

 

The only way to continue using the vehicle after 6 months without reregistering it is to take it out of the UK and re-enter to gain more time to the 12 months but you would need to have evidence that you had done that to present to the police as they do stop and check vehicles.

[Talbot]

No it wouldn't under 2009/103/EC EU motor insurance policies are valid throughout the EU. The UK is still in the EU.

However, a comment towards the end of this thread:

 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115053&st=0&

 

"This would appear to preclude an "owner" of a foreign-registered vehicle (who is a resident of, e.g., the UK) from being considered the driver of a vehicle "in international traffic" (and thus a beneficiary of the Vienna Convention of 1968). Thus, if a temporarily imported, foreign-registered vehicle were being driven (by its owner) in the country where that person resided, he or she would not be driving a vehicle "in international traffic" in the UK. That owner/driver would then have to show that the vehicle (and the driver) were covered by an RTA-compliant policy of insurance, which as I have demonstrated in a previons post, must have been issued by an "authorised insurer", which in practice means one that is a member of the UK MIB."

 

However, the point he's making is astonishingly subtle, and I think would need a high-court case to actually make case law and determine if any-EU-member-state insurance is valid, or if UK insurance is needed, depending on your country of residence. It's so vague that as far as I can see there are contradictorary laws regarding this, so absolutely no surprise that no-one seems to know for sure.

 

As long as the vehicle has valid insurance and has MOT(or equivalent) and has paid appropriate taxes in the country of registration, I'd drive it. And would use your very reasonable and valid point above, Eddie, to argue that what I am doing is legal.

[Wingz123]

Getting massively over complicated. I’d just drive it...

[drum]

Keep the updates and pics coming please.

 

Howsabout popping up to Bergen, getting the ferry to Lerwick, then to Aberdeen and you can drop into shitefest on your way home. Should only add about 3000 miles.

 

Drive safely gents.

[Datsuncog]

Getting massively over complicated. I’d just sell it to me.

 

FTFY.

[Wingz123]

^^^ hhaha

[chaseracer]

Howsabout popping up to Bergen, getting the ferry to Lerwick, then to Aberdeen...

 

Ooh now... there's a return route for my next visit to Sweden...

 

[MiniMort]

Just a warning. If you get pulled over in france they may want to see your hi-vis jackets and a breathalyser kit.

[jollysmart]

Just a warning. If you get pulled over in france they may want to see your hi-vis jackets and a breathalyser kit.

They dropped the breathalyser kit requirement didn't they? Still need bulb set, first aid kit, fire extinguisher warning triangle etc and the high vis jacket has to be in the passenger compartment so you can put it on before leaving the vehicle.

[Isaac Hunt]

I am half German and it annoys me when people say VolksWAGON.... No!!!!! Its pronounced - VolksVAGEN.... in German W’s are V’s

Rottweiler....no pronounced... RottVEILER

I'm with the half of you tha that ent german

 

W = wa

V = va

 

I mean in the US of A they had Wagon's

 

Nobody nips off for a Crafy Vank do they

 

Should we go to the land of BeeEm, nobody say ' For heaVens sake don't mention the Var

[Talbot]

Getting massively over complicated. I’d just drive it...

Me too. Theres a world of difference between an 8-year-old RHD Audi with UK dealer stickers on RO plates, being driven like an utter cunt at 110 on a dual carriageway, with no paperwork, and a 28-year old LHD Dacia on RO plates, with valid MOT(equivalent) valid Insurance and being driven sensibly and carefully by someone who is polite.

 

If there's ANY chance at all of this arriving at shitefest, *shirley* this has to be the car to go there in.

 

 

Also:

 

Also, I've just woken up, which suggests I somehow got some sleep in this shitty, horribly hot hotel. I feel bad for Cats, as he has significantly more facial insulation and must have been baking hot all night

I've never worn a beard, but it must be SOOOO warm! Lovely in bleak cold wales, but not so brilliant when its hot?

 

You're close enough to the channel now that with a massive push you could be back in the UK by Monday. Have you got a plan for the rest of the journey?

[Isaac Hunt]

Book an MOTee at Port Of Arrival, down at Stevey Vonders place and MOTee it on the VIN at 17:30 on a Friday

 

Complete the DVSA import forms and U.K Reg application, photocopy and put in the post

 

Insure on the VIN

 

And weees all waiting for The DVSA or DWSA to catch up ent we

 

 

Oh Shit, your arrriving on a Weds, that's that plan messed up then

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I've not been on here much lately, good to drop in and see Tadhg still getting in a tiz about the continuing menace of eastern European-regd cars though!

[SiC]

DW: could your friends at Hagerty help with getting insurance so you can drive it home? They may also be able to advise on the legal side maybe?

[stripped fred]

I have been enjoying this foreign adventure and have nothing to add of any worth but I can't help thinking you both must be completely knackered. I would want to get home, get in my bed and not drive the bloody thing for at least a week!