Project Land Rover resto - new project and Sandy p25

[richardthestag]

Daily Driver MoT was last Monday, I travelled back to Devon Thursday evening and cracked on with that tinsy hole on Friday.

the hole was passenger side under the c post on the arch, didnt take a lot of poking around to find lots of fresh air

As the outer arch was already fucked and patched and I had another new unit, it was first off

flange is tidy enough but behind the c post against the inner wheelarch is a world of space, to depressed to take a piccy, 

I pulled back the carpet to save it catching fire and found this load of fun, boot floor up against the wheel arch, you canimagine how much was left after I gently prodded it.

New boot sides, arches and boot floor are going in very soon. Shame I didnt have the bits already because it would have been a good place to start.

Cut a big chunk out and welding in a huge patch, boot floor no longer flexes

Next up I lined up the new arch and ragged it into place

Then started on the inner arch sections behind the c-post

That rust extended it's way nearly all the way down to the lpg tank which sits in the spare wheel well.

A-hem yes that is it still there, I simply could not be arsed to remove it, no smell of gas and tbh the plastic petrol tank is just to the left under the boot floor.

#don't try this at home kids

The last two holes, one right above the body mounting, and just beside the seat mounting

Ran out of fucking welding wire. I did have some more but ran out of patience, finished the job on Saturday

MoT was issued on Monday, usual advisories about oil leaks tadts

[mrbenn]

Brilliant work and fascinating to watch.

You're a craftsman!

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Where do you get your wheel arch panels from?

The ones I've been able to find are pressed out of much thinner metal than they should be

- or are you just working around the thin metal problem?

[Tickman]

Excellent job getting the range rover this far.

[AndySnapper]

Inspiring work as usual Richard. The auction RR looks absolutely fabulous 

Andy

[richardthestag]

2 hours ago, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

Where do you get your wheel arch panels from?

The ones I've been able to find are pressed out of much thinner metal than they should be

- or are you just working around the thin metal problem?

pretty sure there is only one manufacturer is pressing these, I bought them from YRM solutions 

https://yrmit.co.uk/product-category/range-rover-classic-lse/body-range-rover-classic-lse/

They are thin but not so much that I blow through them

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

1 hour ago, richardthestag said:

pretty sure there is only one manufacturer is pressing these, I bought them from YRM solutions 

https://yrmit.co.uk/product-category/range-rover-classic-lse/body-range-rover-classic-lse/

They are thin but not so much that I blow through them

Ta!, I got mine from Paddock. 

I'd doubt I be blowing through as I'll be spot and mig puddling them on.

 

[richardthestag]

episode 23 is on yootoob

Enjoy

[timolloyd]

Good luck for Sunday! Hope you get top dollar. 

Disappointed that Harry Metcalfe didn't feature it in his latest video round-up from the auction.

[AndySnapper]

Yes! Fingers and toes crossed for a good return on Sunday, All the very best Richard!

[Six-cylinder]

Richard I haven't forgotten our conversation at Shitefest about my 1985 Range Rover, I have just fired an email to the film company who have got it to see where we are with it.

[beko1987]

Just get that one mintered up and flog the newer one for what you can! Your vehicular issues will be sorted*! 

[richardthestag]

54 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

Richard I haven't forgotten our conversation at Shitefest about my 1985 Range Rover, I have just fired an email to the film company who have got it to see where we are with it.

Be interested to find out what they say

[richardthestag]

Auction happened, car didn't sell, I was very disappointed. I struggled not to take this as a personal kick in the teeth, yeah I know etc etc it is just me

Lots of discussion with auction house and other dealers to understand why. 

Pre Auction actions, turned into a huge rush to get everything sorted in time. Also loaned the car to a chum to use for his photography business

Never did find a suitable foot pump, but the tool kit looks great

Some bits here, 2 days before auction d-day I was unhappy with and didn't have the time to correct

Interior I was/am really happy with

MW/LW radiomobile set I am really happy with. looks the part too.

Brave pills taken and marked up to position the rear letters. needs 20 3.5mm holes to be drilled in exactly the correct location.

#2 son buggered the rear number plate with a pressure washer, I asked him to do under the car and somehow he thought that included the rear number plate. £50 down the toilet and no time to reorder before auction. bugger

started out well

here the letters are hanging in the holes with no inserts. the O however has fatter legs and needs no inserts. It was wonky and that irritated me. I tried to elongate the hole with a drill, which predicable broke because I was being a fool. and stuck a nice 2" scratch across my new paint!!!!

Engine was serviced, first service for running in. 

Wednesday before auction and looking gorgeous. cleaned, waxed, stickered up, running perfectly

ready for prep for auction, I left it, feeling sad but confident that it would sell.

So what went wrong? 

Maybe a bad day for the auction, It went up at 4.10 on Sunday afternoon, Saturdays auction had good results for classic cars but poor for sports cars. My son and Wife went up to watch, I couldn't face it. My lad videoed it from the balcony, nobody on the phones, limited interest from the dozen or so on the floor. It went to £38k which I might have been inclined to snap at but it was my bid due to the reserve. Auctioneer faced with apathy as with lots of items that afternoon quickly moved on. double duck farts. I consumed lots of alcohol which was probably not the best thing to do.

Next morning analysis found that 28 lots out of 66 on Sunday sold. Only 8 achieved the lower estimate. just one breached the upper estimate. I set off bruised and emotionally beaten to go collect the car with Mrs Thestag.

The chaps at the auction including the MD gave me some really interesting feedback. There was quite a bit of interest in the car Friday and Saturday but one by one that interest evaporated by 4pm Sunday. Just my luck. Bodywork and paintwork was root cause, I can understand that. Many of the other cars here are investment / wrap em up and hide them in a barn type vehicles. My car is a useable classic. It is hard to justify a £10k paint job really but that is what the punters were looking for. Buyers can be fickle.

Reserve also hampered the team in getting interest in the car, I could have lost my shirt on this but there are ways around that I found out after the event.

I found that original, unobtainium features for this car that were showing their age actually hindered the interest. plastic mats and basic headlining did not help those who just didn't know what these cars were like in 1972. They would much rather see later window trim, available new, looking fantastic but obviously not period correct. Patina would appear to be a dirty word to many. This surprised me, a lot! This view has been backed up by specialists and dealers I have spoken to since.

So originality and Patina are out, looking fabulous and a £10k mirror finish paint job are in  Somewhat paradoxically not having the correct age of engine, even though the engine fitted is dressed to look period and runs perfectly caused significant damage to the interest. Go figure, you could not make this up, but like I have been told buyers are fickle.

Ultimately it came down to wrong day in the wrong auction. 

I am feeling less sorry for myself and moving forwards wiser and better prepared for this now, I have to thank the auction team for that, they really were very good at helping post auction.

So what next....

[LightBulbFun]

sorry to hear it didn't sell  

I hope plan B goes well and I look forward to the content it will produce at least!

(interesting to hear about the engine age thing, god forbid you try sell a Routemaster bus there then! im pretty sure every Routemaster is made up of bits from every other Routemaster )

[richardthestag]

On the paint front, I have blocked the entire car back using 1500 wet and dry paper, this has eradicated even the most determined or orange peel.

I managed to find a few high spots which are being dealt with.

The leading lower edge of the drivers door has been adjusted using violence, the upper leading edge needs further adjustment. BUT it looks a shit load better

the scuttle area really needs taking back to bare and starting again. thinking about that. I do have a spare skuttle / deck panel.

Flatted paint still looks shiny, I have just gone mad at getting it super smooth and shiny. 2 days of blocking and polishing I am ready for touching in paint in local areas.

On the drive back from Silverstone I had to stamp on the brakes quite hard, car veered to the right violently. I found two issues, n/s/r hub seal had failed and contaminated one pad. This was fixed easily. BUT then I found that the o/s/r caliper was leaking fluid past the inner piston seal. I rebuilt it again but same fault reappeared. Losing interest I bought a new pair of calipers with metric M10 threads.

Brake issues are resolved. BUT I have now noticed that one front piston in the n/s caliper is damp with fluid. I have cleaned it back, driven to Devon and will check again. Any issue a pair of new calipers are going on. Means that I will have to remake brake lines but whatever

Numberplate next, bought a BSAU MoT compliant sticker 

removered the letters

applied the sticker and found it A. see through ffs and B. unlikely it is of a BSAU standard. sent back with a cat turd in the jiffy bag

Got onto the original supplier of the plates, "no you will need to buy another plate complete" when I asked if I could just buy a blank! ok see ya

Found another supplier who is prepared to sell me a blank so will report back next week on success,

In the mean time drove to Devon last Friday for paint work in the barn. A nice steady 70-75 all the way and pleased to get 19.1 MPG on a brim to brim comparison. That is not bad for an old dinosaur!

Prep today, paint tomorrow. watch this space

[ianjobber87]

I just wanted to say I saw this beauty in the metal at Silverstone and I really cannot see what the auctions are saying! It looked perfect in my eyes but alas my budget is nowhere near this level. Good luck with the next sale.

[richardthestag]

Sorry it has been a while coming

next vlog episode

Plan B is now in place

[richardthestag]

Happy with complete Dick type feedback, it is more often than not helpful and doesn't bother me.

Like I said in the video this whole thing is a learning exercise for me, first car I have ever shoved through auction, feedback from them has been really useful.

I had already put in a wedge of research into cars being sold through vendors prior to auction, ok Graham Hunt is a league of his own. But even there you can see defects in some of the very low res images that he posts on his website.  Cars being sold by other high profile traders look as if they have been painted with a shovel. By comparison mine was superb, (in my opinion). I also went down the road of originality even if some of the components are a step beyond patinated . This is my personal preference and now I understand  I would walk past lines of over restored (in my eyes) cars to look at a rusty Allegro, but not many others would.

I spent a huge amount of time and money sourcing period correct components and fixings, the car will never be in a concourse and thus this effort and cash was entirely wasted. I am wiser as a result

I cannot understand the need for a 10k paint job on a 45k car, that is crackers. especially when so much brand new stuff has far less than perfect paintwork. 

Cracked steering wheel is still on the car, TADTS cannot find another.  Rebuild is not out of the question but enthusiasm is starting to wane under pressure from Mrs thestag, I am stuck in a bit of a cashflow crisis right now so this car has to move on

Paint in the inner wheel arch is schutz, I left the car relatively bare underneath so folk could see the extent and quality of repairs, again i was rong! it will be plastered with inch thick underseal before next auction

I have been busy over the last 2 weeks finishing the body alignment issues with the drivers door and finishing the paint off to a non 1970s orange peel effect, costs here have been in paper, tape compound, polish, wax and 1/2 litre of paint.

Need still to find £750 for the door rubbers!

Mrs did research traders for me, Graham Hunt and others, story pretty similar. could get me the money I wanted (reserve at Silverstone Auctions) but on a commission sale. This could take 2months or 12! I cannot wait for that.

Next auction I have entered the car for is Brightwells at Leominster 4 Sept, It will sell, it is much more aggressively priced, much tidier BUT not concourse, want that go and look at Messrs Kingsley and Twentyten and their prices for cars that are selling.

https://www.kingsleycars.co.uk/range-rover-classics-for-sale/

I have a s3 109 to do next and shift quick. I can make a business out of this, it is hard work but I need to remember to enjoy it also.

Cheers

[timolloyd]

Was gutted for you when I read about Silverstone. 

There's a great buyer out there somewhere, who'll really appreciate the original touches and the fact that it runs really well as well as looking a million dollars to the majority of people.

As well as everything you've learned from this one, it's also free advertising. So you may not get as much you want for it, but with a bit of luck a happy owner tells others about a sweary bloke in Devon who knows his stuff, they come to you etc etc

[richardthestag]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post that ^^. Truth sometimes hurts but I do pay attention, listen and act   

Original plan was for a mechanically perfect car, lob some paint at it and shift it quick 15-20k this evolved as I found the state of the body frame. It kind of got out of hand with nut and bolt strip down and powder coating stuff! thus the costs spiralled. All of this happened when this was a hobby and I was working as an IT project manager gah I was miserable in that fucking job. That all changed last October, I was made redundant Yay! (do not mean to be flippant but the fucking job was slowly killing me ) but bugger it suddenly got real!

I prefer a car than is mechanically and electrically perfect, passes an MOT without any issues but is NOT timewarp factory fresh, I like patina, I like that the car shows some history, wears it's years with pride. Kind of called a Patina restoration, quite a few on here have the "do not paint" feedback, impossible for this car but something that I like. Lacquer is lifting on the bonnet of my 93 daily and that is looking tatty now so It will be painted, a cosmetic tidy up but a daily use car that is 26 years old and has 190k on the odometer. Values of Patina restorations are a fraction of those factory fresh investment opportunities that will never see the roads again. 

I fully understand that there are very few who share this view and most of them are on this forum  so stepped up to the next level for me which is tidy presentable but showing some history. Big fucking mistake as I found out, fickle buyers could not give a shit about £1400 Kit Kat replica interiors or plastic matting, give them leather and thick carpet. Would have saved me a fortune had I known sooner. 

So what did I do Q4 2018?

I rushed out and bought another 4 rusty wrecks, in hindsight not my best move. It distracted me enough to underestimate the amount of work to complete this car, being an experienced project manager who fully understands the 90% of the effort occurs in the last 10% of the project this was just plain silly of me.

Jaguar Land Rover had issues with their diesel heavy product range (government anti-diesel propaganda after 2 decades of strongly supporting diesel as fuel of the immediate future) and appear to have scaled down their Reborn Programme as a result. All the hype about a strong market for high end cars at £150,000+ started to melt away. My plan to market a less perfect car at 1/3 of this price, which made sense last year, started to melt away at the same time.

Mrs was haranguing me as I suggested it would be ready for sale in late April, MOT was early June and it was still a way off finished. I stuck an ad on Carandclassic with a silly price to keep her off my case. Silverstone Auctions contacted me, asking if I would be interested in entering the car at their flagship auction. Blimey, never been to one either, but was kind of flattered. 

I was forced into a rush for the finish line but stopped 2 furlongs short, what would be acceptable to me is not to others and I just ran out of time. I knew some details on the car were less than perfect, but what the hell various traders are still shifting cars 120k+. Same traders who, post auction, are prepared to take this on and market it in the 60k+ region to net me 40k. I know they have overheads and warranty concerns so this seemed more than acceptable. Lack of cash and no idea how long the above would take moved me onto Plan B

Plan B - sort out the main issues identified at the last auction - the last 2 furlongs if you like and present it to auction early Sept at a giveaway estimate.

The tyres are not new but NOS that have 1999 date markers on them but to the pattern originally used. They are no longer available new in this pattern. I will likely be swapping them for new tubeless tyres and install with tubes (necessary for the riveted rimz) for safety reasons, rather do that than cough my filthy yoghurt over cosmetics but then that is just me it would seem ?

Ramble, sorry if you are still reading this ....

The car was never intended to even slightly interest any of the customers of a new Range Rover, I am not sure where that idea came from, I cannot imagine that any classic car would ever interest anyone not specifically in the market for one. Though JLR might just have ballsed up the Defender replacement thus buoying the market for good used examples.

From my experience new cars increasingly leave the driver isolated from the fact there are 4 placemat sized lumps of rubber and gravity that keep them on the straight and narrow. And when it all goes wrong they will be saved by all manner of gadgetry that they falsely believe will protect their life when they drive like a complete pratt. Oh and they can hold conversation with anyone in the car while driving at 90 in lane 3 and keep cool with the latest in whisper quiet climate control.

By comparison any 1970s Range Rover before they started getting luxuried up were faster and better handling* series Land Rovers. That is something that is very difficult to ever change. By 1993 the cars were better insulated and slightly longer legged, had things like carpet, air con, electric windows, ABS and anti roll bars but they are effectively the same car underneath and it shows.

I will paint the tools, I may fit carpet instead of the plastic mats, I am debating with the Mrs about the cost for the door window rubbers, I believe it to be a mistake to not change them, she would rather go on holiday to Croatia with our three sons etc.

[richardthestag]

Ok folks 6 days in Devon workshop and it has moved forwards a whole load.

Tried marketing the car privately and had a couple of sniffs, one most likely a scammer. Spoke to dealers and had good feedback and offers that were acceptable but timescales and cashflow work against me.

Car is now in Brightwells auction Leominster 4 Sept. It must sell, I have a reserve that covers my family investors to be repaid, high risk but as the car might appear to have floundered at the last auction something radical has to be done.

Paint and detailing was the main thing, paint first

The body frame I painted clear over base, pretty pointless really as it is a flat colour and any defects in the base cannot be remedied because of the clear coat, ah you live and learn. I am now working with a solid paint scheme, A and B posts were the biggest areas of concern, these were flatted back to the basecoat and overcoated with a 2-pack solid coat that can be cut and polished more easily.

After the auction and having driven nearly 1000 miles in it I found two metal defects one on each of the front wings where the mud guard has resonated against the birmabrite panel. gah. Here has split the nearside panel. Had to flat it right back, fix the underlaying issue, fill and paint again

Fixed the dent and alignment issues at the top of the drivers door

found that the door an rear wing were a fraction of a shade different, so need to be painted to make them the same, ffs

polished the deck panel back but really unhappy with existing paint shrink and micro blisters. which you can see when you get close.

decided to paint nearside end to end, not as dramatic as it sounds but at least with a flat base, 2 coats should do it and it will be perfect, front wing came off for some reason that I am not sure I fully understand now

all back together and polished it looks gr9, I still need to sort the sill trim so don't panic. That is in phase 2 detailing

gave up thinking about the deck and masked it up Thursday night, huge storm due to hit South west early evening but I needed to get photos for the auction.

Flatted it right back to remove any shrinkage

Threw 6 coats on, while guarding against the House Martins who are about to fly the nest

about 1h before the storm, the paint is curing fast. It was kind of a race against time, should have waited really but I think I got away with it.

next morn and the chicks are out of da nest

Polished the bonnet and tried to capture some images that show the quality of the shine and panel alignment. I still need to black the sill trims so photoshopped the image that went to the auction house. I will send more next week when I get back onto it. Heading back to Devon this afternoon, have to be home Wednesday night for A-Level result day and my twins !!

Anyway behold the result of 40 hours work

 

and a shopped version, only on the sill cover

thanks for looking, video 25 will be on the tube in about 2 hours

 

 

[beko1987]

That's the spirit, get it fucking gone before you get angry with it and move onto the next having learnt some stuff! 

[SiC]

Is that a crank handle hole in the bumper? Still active at that age?

[richardthestag]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Is that a crank handle hole in the bumper? Still active at that age?

yes, not tried to start it on the crank handle but it is dead useful for setting static points and stuff like that.

Maybe I will try crank starting it when warm, what could possibly go wrong  

[schonker]

Looks great that.Hope the auction goes well

[richardthestag]

Episode 25 is available for viewing

Cheers

[richardthestag]

On 8/11/2019 at 11:09 PM, Tayne said:

Can you heat up the plastic coating on the wheel and melt the crack away?

No, sadly not, only way to properly fix it is to strip the rim back to it's bare frame and build a mold to re cast the rim. 

cost = IRO £400 + Vat

https://www.famousfour.co.uk/new_parts/ff_part?part=19312

window rubbers come first. I did paint the tools though and they do look better

edited to add - found the company that does em, down to 325+vat 4 day turn around. tempted.... watch this space

 

[richardthestag]

piss toad 26 is on the toob

Photos have been sent off to Brightwells for the auction catalogue.

Latest news, one front calliper is now seeping. gah ffs I will get to the bottom of why but new callipers are being fitted. What a waste of time and effort

Also engine now has one noisy tappet, investigation found not oil pressure related.

Investigation tba

[Timewaster]

Somehow I am only just reading this thread for the first time. 

Amazing work.