Project Domes shonky autos - Grand Cherokee departs, Kangoo titivation and 911 dug out.

[bigfella2]

After a bit of googling it looks like the head bolts on my engine are the same as the PD150-the 75bhp engine I have runs a massive compression ratio which may explain this.

 

It may still be worth a punt though, especially if i can get to the headbolts without removing too much. I think I'll get the coolant gauge working and fix the front suspension first though-it feels pretty horrible.

Just been doing some research on all this and been checking some part numbers.

 

Headbolts part numbers are

038103384 that's for the lower powered 4 pot engines pd100 to pd130, the 10.9 tensile strength versions. Also this is the same part number for the 3 pot tdi's with engine codes AMF, BHL and ATL, guessing yours is one of these.

 

The part number for the pd150 ARL 12.9 tensile strength is 038103384C. Same part number with the C at the end. The C denotes the stronger bolt.

 

Feel free to double check on here.

http://www.oemepc.com/audi/part_single/catalog/au/markt/RDW/modell/A2/year/2000/drive_standart/248/hg_ug/103/subcategory/103042/part_id/252639/lang/e#sec_17

 

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_single/catalog/vw/markt/RDW/modell/GOLF/year/2002/drive_standart/266/hg_ug/103/subcategory/103057/part_id/3685734/lang/e#sec_17

[gm]

It's only £30 a year to tax anyway - what a goon !

[Exiled_Tat_Gatherer]

I’m more bothered by the lack of an mot.

 

He knows it'll fail on the front bushes!

[dome]

I've just sold the winter tyres I bought from GM for this.

The chap turned up in an A2 at the time stated, paid the money and left.

He'd told me his was modified to 130bhp and so i looked up the registration after he'd gone.

Its not been taxed since July when the Mot ran out!

 

I'd check the reg on Askmid. If it's not showing I'd be reporting him. 

[dome]

Just been doing some research on all this and been checking some part numbers.

 

Headbolts part numbers are

038103384 that's for the lower powered 4 pot engines pd100 to pd130, the 10.9 tensile strength versions. Also this is the same part number for the 3 pot tdi's with engine codes AMF, BHL and ATL, guessing yours is one of these.

 

The part number for the pd150 ARL 12.9 tensile strength is 038103384C. Same part number with the C at the end. The C denotes the stronger bolt.

 

Feel free to double check on here.

http://www.oemepc.com/audi/part_single/catalog/au/markt/RDW/modell/A2/year/2000/drive_standart/248/hg_ug/103/subcategory/103042/part_id/252639/lang/e#sec_17

 

http://www.oemepc.com/vw/part_single/catalog/vw/markt/RDW/modell/GOLF/year/2002/drive_standart/266/hg_ug/103/subcategory/103057/part_id/3685734/lang/e#sec_17

 

Thanks for that Bigfella

 

I must confess I was relying on a friend who was looking it up as I was out and about-I guess he never noticed the C on the end.

 

*Warning* Stream of thought follows-feel free to advise on the sensible* option

 

From looking it does look like the head bolts are pretty accessible so it may be worth a try. 

 

If I do go down the head bolt route my thoughts would be to try standard bolts first, partly as they are half the price. 

My other reasoning for this is that is if new, standard bolts, fitted and torqued up correctly don't cure it then there is an issue beyond head bolts stretching/loosening through time. 

 

I might have a look at the timing belt first-there's no record of when it was last changed. If the timing belt needs done then that would lean me towards pulling the head off it anyway-once the belts off you're half way there. 

 

Coolant sensor should arrive today and I need to get myself a new balljoint splitter so I can get the fucked wishbone off. Any recomendations for a good one that can get into tight spaces?

[purplebargeken]

May well be insured but no MOT or tax when not driving to an MOT station for a pre-booked test surely has to be a potential killer of nuns and kittens? Also invalidates insurances?

[bigfella2]

I think your first plan was the best using the stronger bolts, don't forget most suppliers will be selling you ten bolts, I think you only need eight. And if the head does still need to come off I would rather reuse the 12.9's.

Not really looked hard at prices but these are £25 for 10, and this company would sell you eight, and they are genuine VW ones.

 

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/pd150-arl-head-bolt-set-for-1-9-2-0-8v-tdi-pd-engines.html

 

The standard ones can't be much cheaper can they?

[Saabnut]

May well be insured but no MOT or tax when not driving to an MOT station for a pre-booked test surely has to be a potential killer of nuns and kittens? Also invalidates insurances?

 

Whilst not being a huge fan of nuns or kittens, it is a myth that no MOT or tax will invalidate insurance. If the car is unroadworthy, it might affect insurance on the car, but even that will not invalidate a third party claim

[gm]

I've got a short fork type ball joint splitter if it is of any use ? Has been used many times on the mx5s but tends to ruin the rubber boot in the process

 

 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-fork-ball-joint-separator-19mm/19907

[dome]

I've got a short fork type ball joint splitter if it is of any use ? Has been used many times on the mx5s but tends to ruin the rubber boot in the process

 

 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/laser-fork-ball-joint-separator-19mm/19907

 

Aye that's what I've go too and as you say it tends to wreck the boots. I'm expecting the worst from the ebay seller so would like to be able to reuse the arm with a new boot. Might have a quick nose and see what clearance is like for the fork type splitters.

[dome]

Bought a scissor type splitter from Amazon- I need a new one anyway. It was cheap enough that I can grind it down if need be to fit. 

[dome]

I think your first plan was the best using the stronger bolts, don't forget most suppliers will be selling you ten bolts, I think you only need eight. And if the head does still need to come off I would rather reuse the 12.9's.

Not really looked hard at prices but these are £25 for 10, and this company would sell you eight, and they are genuine VW ones.

 

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/pd150-arl-head-bolt-set-for-1-9-2-0-8v-tdi-pd-engines.html

 

The standard ones can't be much cheaper can they?

 

Cheapest set of standard head bolts is about £14 posted for 8. Cheapest I've seen the 150 (ARL Engine code) ones is about £28 for 10. Individually they are more expensive. If the stronger ones can be reused I'd be tempted but a brief google says no. 

 

I suppose if I bought 10 and it didn't cure it I could compare the lengths of the two leftover ARL bolts to the one's I was taking out to see if they'd stretched.

[320touring]

A plan has been devised to help the little A2 approach adequate boost levels

 

[Fraz]

I have to confess - it was me who missed the c on the end of the stronger head bolts part number.

[Zelandeth]

Holy kittens that's a bloody big supercharger...

[wuvvum]

Or a very smoll man.

[bigfella2]

Dome I will make you a deal, I will chip in the difference price wise between the bolts, give me your PayPal details.

 

Only thing I ask in return is the value in tickets when it roffles. Am intrigued as anything to see if this works.

[Kiltox]

purchased 5/09/18, fitted by mot garage on 11/09/18 at 181682 miles

 

 

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F262315997634

 

Two year warranty !

Good old eBay. Supplying useless suspension parts since 2001.

[dome]

Dome I will make you a deal, I will chip in the difference price wise between the bolts, give me your PayPal details.

 

Only thing I ask in return is the value in tickets when it roffles. Am intrigued as anything to see if this works.

Thanks for the offer but I couldn't resist this deal on Amazon last night for the standard bolts...

 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[Dave_Q]

Yo, as it happens I've done a bit of bolted joint design.

 

Its not always the case that more is more, in fact 12.9 grade bolts are not recommended for general use as they can suffer from hydrogen embrittlement from the process that gets them to the required level of hardness and strength. Generally you would be advised to use a larger diameter 10.9.

 

Obviously VAG know what they're doing and have determined that it's worth the risk to commonise everything else by using the same diameter, supplier quality has an influence so I guess the OEM ones are OK as we don't hear of PD150s with snapped head bolts.

 

Anyway, the amount of clamping force you get from a bolt is determined by the tightening torque, not the material, and the tightening method is the same for both (40Nm, then 60Nm, then 90deg then 90deg) so the clamp force will be the same. Haven't got my maths to hand but I think that both materials will be in yield at this point but below UTS.

 

The difference between the 2 is that the 12.9 grade bolt has more headroom between the tightening stress and the failure point (1200MPa UTS vs 1000 for 10.9) meaning that in an application with high PCP (PD150 or tuned cars) the 12.9 will last longer.

 

TL:DR version: Strength =/= clamp force, if head bolts were going to fix it the standard ones will probably be fine, until you let 320touring near it with his laptop.

[Fraz]

[dome]

Not a lot to report here. My car fettling mojo has been at a low of late. 

 

The smoll Audi has been sitting at work awaiting a new bush-Mark(GM) managed to score me a free bush from the ebay seller of his wishbones which were waiting for me on my desk today. 

 

I did give it a wash so it looks presentable, if immobile.

 

 

I'd also ordered a pair of polybushes for £25 with a view to them being easier to install than the standard ones and not much more expensive. These turned up at the same time and are a different size to the regular bush so summits up there.

 

New bush here

 

 

And the existing bush minus its plates. It seems solid enough

 

 

From looking at the new bush I think i see the problem-the bolt for the wishbone only sits on the alloy plates at either end and not on the sleeve of the bush. The plates on the wishbones from memory are steel and a bit shittier quality than these new ones. 

 

I may be able to get away with fitting the spacers to the existing bush-the bush itself has no play. If not I'll press out the bush and fit the new one.

 

 

 

I've not done the head bolts or coolant sensor yet-I want to get the thing driveable first.

 

 

[dome]

Some MR2 fettling has also taken place but not enough. Over the weekend I've removed the new uprated suspension from the black MR2 and fitted the standard suspsension I bought from Tickmans breaker.

 

Behold my spacious* working environment.

 

 

I also tried welding a nut onto the sheared bolt in the chassis

 

Looks OK?

 

 

This picture tells the story. 

 

 

Suffice to say the sheared bolt is still in situ. I ran out of gas about the same time as I ran out of patience. 

 

I really need to do some welding practice this winter on some scrap metal to build up some (any) ability.

 

The black MR2 also got new rear discs and pads in preparation for sale.

 

Apart from that sheared bolt we need to swap the good roof off the red one and some general tittivation and it'll be good to go. I suspect selling it at this time of year will be easy*

[spartacus]

I'm only looking on a phone but I'd say you need a little more heat and try to lay a bead around where the threads meet. I've even found that not winding the nut all the way on and filling the void with weld does the trick. Often it's the heat introduced that frees off the knackered bolt.

Full marks for being out in a cold garage floor doing that in this weather though.

[dome]

Success, almost. I nipped out on my lunchbreak and fitted the 2 new washers to the existing bush and after a bit of faffing managed to get the bolt up and everything seemed tight. 

 

HOWEVER, like the collosal spunktrumpet that I am during the process of getting it lined up I've manged to pop the driveshaft back out of the hub so had to take it all back apart again. 

 

I abandoned it as I'd already overran my lunchbreak, will try again soon....

[dome]

I'm only looking on a phone but I'd say you need a little more heat and try to lay a bead around where the threads meet. I've even found that not winding the nut all the way on and filling the void with weld does the trick. Often it's the heat introduced that frees off the knackered bolt.

Full marks for being out in a cold garage floor doing that in this weather though.

 

Welder was turned up full and wire feed down to a minimum. I was hoping the heat would help free off the bolt but I can't get a good enough weld onto it. This is almost entirely down to my lack of ability. 

[spartacus]

With a couple of Japanese cars to go at you'll get plenty of practice!

They snap those undertray bolts off for a joke, it's like they're made of aluminium.

[stonedagain]

Welder was turned up full and wire feed down to a minimum. I was hoping the heat would help free off the bolt but I can't get a good enough weld onto it. This is almost entirely down to my lack of ability.

Try welding a bigger nut on, you'll get more weld into it.

[dome]

 

Hmmm. Went back out on my lunchbreak and got it back together, there's still play in the bush though with the new spacers on either end. I think I'll need to change over the bush but it can wait-the whole novelty of working on cars in my lunchbreak has worn off-there's no time to do things properly.

 

I'll get it home at some point to do it there

[Kiltox]

I’d love dibs on that Audi when it’s unfucked and you’re bored of it, guess there’s a queue