The ongoing journey of Spartacus’ 1988 Fiat Panda

[Ian_Fearn]

@wesacosa other options for you to get parts based on my years owning a Panda;

shop4parts - email them, they respond surprisingly quickly, always get me genuine Fiat parts at prices that typically beat aftermarket stuff from Ricambio (not dissing Ricambio though, they are good). I’ve had some crazy random parts from them where you’d think it would be obsolete.

Email Big Mick at EuroCarCare in Derby. Also really helpful for this kind of stuff and will post stuff out to you.

[wesacosa]

9 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

@wesacosa other options for you to get parts based on my years owning a Panda;

shop4parts - email them, they respond surprisingly quickly, always get me genuine Fiat parts at prices that typically beat aftermarket stuff from Ricambio (not dissing Ricambio though, they are good). I’ve had some crazy random parts from them where you’d think it would be obsolete.

Email Big Mick at EuroCarCare in Derby. Also really helpful for this kind of stuff and will post stuff out to you.

thanks mate. will give them a try 

[wesacosa]

definitely something fishy going on with the points 

I tried again today when I had a bit more time. The new points cassette give a gap of a minimum about 2mm when open and about 1.6mm when "closed" so we are not even close to the 0.45mm gap, and that's with the adjustment screw wound fully out, if you start winding that in the gap gets even bigger . I just cant believe that's a minor

This picture is the points "closed" and with the adjustment screw fully wound out 😂

manufacturing error in the block size.   I had a look at the points refurb kit I had originally bought to service the old cassette before I snapped the location tab off the cassette. The block on those does look perhaps a tiny fraction smaller than the new cassette but unfortunately I can't try those because the plastic bush is too tight to fit on the shaft even with lubricant 

in fact just trying to push it on has done this to the bush

So I'm £35 in already for what used to be a sub £5 part and no guarantee anything else I buy will work, as I said previously the part numbers for both the Ricambio rebuild kit and the eBay cassette match what should be the right part 

To add a final level of shite into the mix the tax runs out at the end of the month and there's no MOT on it so I am going to have to try and push it up onto the drive if I can't get it running 

Hmmmmph

 

[wesacosa]

Progress!

Finally got to the bottom of the huge gap, and it wasn't the plastic follower block.   

When the cassette is in the dizzy is really hard to see whats happing as the dizzy is on the crank axis and not perpendicular so you have to peer in and the cassette metalworking obstructs some of the view of the cam and points and the light is poor

 

I was using the adjustment allen screw and even when fully wound out I wasn't getting a small enough gap.  What I couldn't see was that after a few turns the bottom points bracket was snagging on some some rust (NoS so probably been on the shelf a long time) so the allen screw continued to wind out but the points didn't slide through the whole slot.  I WD40d , sanded and finally lubed around the pin and slot and now they seem to be adjusting properly.  I haven't tried playing around with the gap/dwell yet but the static gap is achieved with adjustment in both directions left on the screw so hopefully I can get it into the right window and then adjust the timing back to something more sensible than it currently is 

[wesacosa]

Hmm, need some expertise from someone with old school tinkering 

I have set the dwell to a reasonable level with the new points (it was about 20deg too high with the old worn set), as previously mentioned this seemed to have been compensated for by having the timing way advanced so with the correct dwell it was pinking like mad.  I have set the timing down to about 5deg BTDC . New issue is that the idle speed now seems a little higher than before.  Its running about 980rpm when warm and with choke in. There is no rev counter so I am taking the reading from my dwell meter. Pretty sure when I did this before it was closer to 800 (Haynes says 700-800rpm is correct) but its a while ago and I didn't note it down so wouldn't swear to it

Could changing points then fiddling with gap/dwell and then timings change idle speed or is it more likely I have disturbed something else (or was mistaken about the previous idle speed)

I haven't touched any screws on the carb 

[Mr Pastry]

8 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

Could changing points then fiddling with gap/dwell and then timings change idle speed

Yes, but it doesn't sound as though it is stupidly high and I wouldn't rely too much on the meter being accurate.

Carb was presumably adjusted to suit the previous timing, so that may be worth looking at.

[wesacosa]

ta. I think a good run around the block would be useful but with no tax/mot and ULEZ its not as easy as it used to be

Not sure if the carb was adjusted or not. It was running terribly when I picked it up and @Grumblespeedand I did clean the carb and change idle jets , I think he might have given one of the screws a fiddle too but I can't remember for sure

[Ian_Fearn]

@wesacosa the answer is yes idle speed will be affected by the work you have done (it sounds like you’ve made some fairly large changes). You will need to adjust the idle speed back down.

I would reset the idle mixture on the carb first though. It’s been a few years now for me but I had a lot of success with a Gunsons colourtune for tweaking the idle mixture.

[wesacosa]

3 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

@wesacosa the answer is yes idle speed will be affected by the work you have done (it sounds like you’ve made some fairly large changes). You will need to adjust the idle speed back down.

I would reset the idle mixture on the carb first though. It’s been a few years now for me but I had a lot of success with a Gunsons colourtune for tweaking the idle mixture.

thanks. I really should have left well alone until after the MOT 😂

[Grumblespeed]

While ago now but no I don't think I did anything with the idle mix screw, we had no idle at all then I swapped out the idle jet itself for a spare out of my box which solved it, just some crap lodged in the original jet. You can set the mixture near enough by ear, just get it warm and idling, wind the idle mix screw in until you hear the revs start to drop, then back it off half a turn.

[wesacosa]

2 hours ago, Grumblespeed said:

While ago now but no I don't think I did anything with the idle mix screw, we had no idle at all then I swapped out the idle jet itself for a spare out of my box which solved it, just some crap lodged in the original jet. You can set the mixture near enough by ear, just get it warm and idling, wind the idle mix screw in until you hear the revs start to drop, then back it off half a turn.

I remember you gave something a little tweek on the carb just before I set off home, I remember because I meant to ask you what you did but forgot!  

I'm tempted to give it a spin first and see how it goes given playing with the points when it was running didn't go so well, would be good to get the bloody MOT done whilst it's running but maybe I will have a little fiddle !!

[wesacosa]

anyone would think I knew what I was doing!!

[wesacosa]

plugs have seen better days too 

[wesacosa]

hmm. Popped into GSF to get a new set of plugs.  Looked identical and had the correct 0.7 mm gap but the car isn't running great with the new plugs.  Its ok idling but if you blip the throttle it stumbles sometimes, it did that before but it seems worse

There is also a big pool of water spitting out the exhaust which it wasn't doing this morning.   

 

EDIT: Tweaking the timing again seems to have cleared the hesitation, so maybe I didn't have it set quite right for the new plugs.  Its still spitting a fair bit of water from the exhaust but there has been a lot of idling and cold starting today 

[wesacosa]

Had another play around with the Panda again this morning until rain stopped play

State of play is as follows 

starts ok on choke and will idle , all be a bit high, with choke pushed in quite quickly 

Occasional stumble at idle 

if you blip throttle quickly it will sometimes cough and splutter, although better when warm 

Lots of water coming from the exhaust, especially when throttle is blipped if spits it out quite a distance 

puff of smoke when blipping throttle 

sorry about vid quality 

Plugs get very sooty after only ten minutes idling but wipes off

air filter was dirty but have changed it

so given the state of the plugs its and the puff of smoke I'd say it's definitely running too rich, but would running rich also cause the water spitting from the exhaust ?

I borrowed @rob88h's wonderfully retro colourtune but the recess in the block is too thin to take the socket needed to fit the colourtune. Assume it needs some adaptor 

 

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

water is just condensation

unless coolent is going down as well

[wesacosa]

4 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

water is just condensation

unless coolent is going down as well

it's a huge amount of water though and pretty sure it wasn't doing it until I started fiddling with stuff.  I will keep an eye on the coolant level but there is no white smoke or steam 

[Noel Tidybeard]

if it's been idling for long periods the zorst might be a little full of water that need expelling

[Mr Pastry]

Appreciate it costs money every time you take it on the road, but that needs a good run out, half an hour at least, get it stinking hot and blow the cobwebs and condensation out before you can tune it properly.  A lot of water can accumulate in the exhaust when it's idling.

[wesacosa]

4 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Appreciate it costs money every time you take it on the road, but that needs a good run out, half an hour at least, get it stinking hot and blow the cobwebs and condensation out before you can tune it properly.  A lot of water can accumulate in the exhaust when it's idling.

Yeah it definitely does, but it also needs tax and MOT first too.  To be honest I think I have lost my confidence with the cars at the moment after the 5 breakdowns in about ten journeys across the Favorit and the Panda

First step is to get it running well enough to fell ok driving it for an MOT 

[wesacosa]

@Grumblespeed

any reason the offside inner gaiter is going to be more difficult to do then the nearside?  Looks like that side has started leaking now

[Grumblespeed]

On 15/06/2024 at 16:56, wesacosa said:

@Grumblespeed

any reason the offside inner gaiter is going to be more difficult to do then the nearside?  Looks like that side has started leaking now

Not really, access is a bit more awkward just because it's buried deeper accessing it from the offside but still not bad. Better if it's just the boot leaking rather than the bearing as that is a chore to get off and replace. Don't mess about too much underneath, it's dead easy to take the driveshaft out complete and deal with the boot on the bench.

[wesacosa]

17 minutes ago, Grumblespeed said:

Not really, access is a bit more awkward just because it's buried deeper accessing it from the offside but still not bad. Better if it's just the boot leaking rather than the bearing as that is a chore to get off and replace. Don't mess about too much underneath, it's dead easy to take the driveshaft out complete and deal with the boot on the bench.

great, thanks. I need to check the source of the leak just noticed a small puddle under the car but it did seem to be under the gaiter at first glance . Bearing was ok on NS so hopefully the case on this one too!

 

[wesacosa]

Inner gaiter day today.  managed to get sunburn 

driveshaft came out pretty easy this time unlike the other side, and I didn't have to annoy @Grumblespeedwith questions at all this time after the 100 or so last time,(well ok, maybe one)

sadly noticed a split in the outer CV gaiter when I was reassembling. Local motor factor can get me one tomorrow so tools down for the day 

 

[Mrs Spart]

Hello!

  Sorry just playing catch up here. 

Is there anything I can do? I'm actually in London (Putney) this weekend, I'm no mechanic but I'm happy to help where I can?

 

Btw, honestly do not feel bad "if" you have to roffle it... Giles @spartacus wanted it to stay (ideally) within AutoShite so a roffle is one way of doing this, I'm very much sure he'd understand if it's giving you more grief than joy. 

 

[wesacosa]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Spart said:

Hello!

  Sorry just playing catch up here. 

Is there anything I can do? I'm actually in London (Putney) this weekend, I'm no mechanic but I'm happy to help where I can?

 

Btw, honestly do not feel bad "if" you have to roffle it... Giles @spartacus wanted it to stay (ideally) within AutoShite so a roffle is one way of doing this, I'm very much sure he'd understand if it's giving you more grief than joy. 

 

Hi. Good to hear from you. hope you are well

Thanks for the very kind offer but I'm making steady progress now fingers crossed

It's not giving me any more grief than any other old car to be honest. I was just feeling guilty for not using it enough in the last year as I lost a bit of my car mojo for various reasons but back on it now . I've actually took the day off work today to work on it. It booked in for a show at brands hatch next weekend so hoping to get it finished in time

Hope the MG and the BMW are going well 

[Mrs Spart]

  MG surprisingly started first time today (last used almost a year ago 😱). Hoping to get it out to some shows again this year 😀

  Winter has been horrendous, constant rain here, ground is still saturated in areas & still not dried out. So I don't blame you for not using the car much or having much car mojo. 

  @spartacus BMW, has finally been MOT'd. Lol after 3 years! Honestly, dont ask... You think you've got grief over @spartacusPanda, the BMW was starting to give me a nervous twitch! Altho still not quite back home yet, apparently its mis-firing and the mechanic (who was one of Giles' old friends) is desperatly trying to get it running perfect. 

[wesacosa]

ah great news on the BMW. Well done for persevering with it. I'm sure Giles would be proud 

Would be great to see some pictures once its all sorted 

 

[wesacosa]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggggg

 

[Back_For_More]

Keep on keeping on fella...... You'll get there. 

As always, if you need a extra pair of hands or chief tea maker just shout. Happy to help if I can.