Project Rusty Triumphs in Scotland - To gas or not to gas(less MIG) - 09/11/24

[SiC]

 

It could probably be salvaged but needs a full rebuild.

 

Could that crank go into the rebuilt 1300FWD lump?

 

[Yoss]

This is my bible. 

A very tatty and well used (not just by me, it obviously came from a garage, it's covered in greasy fingerprints and alterations. It is a thing of beauty) original parts book. 

They changed over at RD4036 from a parallel to a tapered front crank. They had trouble with the front pulleys coming loose. 

Possibly because there is a lot more centrifugal force going on with the starter ring carrier. I  don't know why a tapered one grips better, in my mind it looks like it would fall off easier but it's something to do with physics which I don't understand. But it works, they really don't like coming off. Normal pullers don't work. And they don't slide off, you keep hitting them and they go with a sudden bang. 

A normal 1300 RWD  crank should drop straight in. I'm trying to think off the top of my head if the FWD starter ring would hit anything if it was installed in a RWD car. Not sure. 

[Yoss]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

 

Could that crank go into the rebuilt 1300FWD lump?

 

You just beat me to it. If I'd come straight to the point and didn't start rambling, I'd have got there first! 

[GingerNuttz]

I reckon by using a Herald GE timing cover the fwd engine will work with the tapered crank. 

[SiC]

You just beat me to it. If I'd come straight to the point and didn't start rambling, I'd have got there first! 

Your post was more useful as you applied thought, common sense and research into it!

[SiC]

I reckon by using a Herald GE timing cover the fwd engine will work with the tapered crank. 

Doesn't the captain have a Herald lump in the flat block basement?!

[GingerNuttz]

The front crank seal to FWD pulley is the only thing we need to test to see if it seals 

[GingerNuttz]

1 minute ago, SiC said:

2 minutes ago, GingerNuttz said:

I reckon by using a Herald GE timing cover the fwd engine will work with the tapered crank. 

Doesn't the captain have a Herald lump in the flat block basement?!

He does indeed and plans are already in motion to rip the timing cover off and see if we can cobble together something that works. 

[captain_70s]

14 minutes ago, SiC said:

 

Could that crank go into the rebuilt 1300FWD lump?

 

A rwd crank should drop in, issue being it'd have to be a small journal crank (my mk4 Spitfire lump is a large journal example), and they're the expensive ones!

5 minutes ago, GingerNuttz said:

He does indeed and plans are already in motion to rip the timing cover off and see if we can cobble together something that works. 

This. The secondary plan is to take the two pulleys to a engineering workshop and have them combined/modified/made to fit the Dolly timing cover.

The other issue being crank balance. With the flywheel being at the FRONT of a fwd engine rather than the back I have no idea what difference (if any) chucking that weight onto the opposite end of the crank for a rwd application will do.

[Yoss]

I think you'll find the FWD just had a smaller flywheel at the clutch end to compensate. 

Also, perhaps I should mention this again before you throw it all together. There's no dipstick hole in a FWD block, that's in the gearbox. But the casting is still there it just needs drilling out. You don't want to realise that just as your filling your new engine with oil. 

[GingerNuttz]

1 minute ago, Yoss said:

I think you'll find the FWD just had a smaller flywheel at the clutch end to compensate. 

Also, perhaps I should mention this again before you throw it all together. There's no dipstick hole in a FWD block, that's in the gearbox. But the casting is still there it just needs drilling out. You don't want to realise that just as your filling your new engine with oil. 

Good call Yoss, I'll drill it out tomorrow and put the rwd tube in .

[captain_70s]

I think the plug is already out and it just needs the tube!

[Yoss]

Glad to hear it, I didn't want you finding that out too late. 

I forgot earlier that you can remove the starter ring from the front pulley. It's just six bolts. Then you are just left with a normal pulley. 

[captain_70s]

Aye, that's what we've got! We were wondering what all the bolt holes were for... ?

I'd gotten it into my head it must be the arse end of the crank that was different for fwd applications, me and @Jikovron took measurements from that end to compare to my Spitfire engine and found everything identical but we only checked the distance between block/pulley groove at the front which is the same... I couldn't get the pulley bolt off my engine so I never actually got a look at the end of the crankshaft itself. I never even considered the fucking flywheel and starter would be at the wrong end because the fwd gubbins would be in the way!

[GingerNuttz]

The bolt holes are for attaching another pulley for supercharging ............

[320touring]

Having been over today to see this (and help *with the engine)

Can I just say @GingerNuttz has done a power of work to it, and to a very high standard - top work chief!

It was a most pleasant day footering aboot!

[GingerNuttz]

3 minutes ago, 320touring said:

Having been over today to see this (and help *with the engine)

Can I just say @GingerNuttz has done a power of work to it, and to a very high standard - top work chief!

It was a most pleasant day footering aboot!

You and your brother are fucking hilarious ? Come back down whenever you want for a laugh and we can torment Captain70's with engine swaps and turbos  

[captain_70s]

Aye, big thinks to @320touring, @jaypee and @davidfowler2000 coming over to lend a hand! Made short work of pulling bits of engine apart with one person manning the sand blaster, one on cleaning duty and a couple of bolt-looseners and kept @GingerNuttz free to work his bodywork magic... Also gave him some dangerous fucking plans for massively overpowered BL shitboxes. ?

Another thanks to @GingerNuttz as well, as on top of doing all the work my car has now exploded his air compressors...

 

[GingerNuttz]

I was going to blame the Dolly for bursting the pipes but in reality it's my dad who kicks the shit outta them compressors with that bloody sandblaster ?

[big_al_granvia]

what about fitting a harvey gibb all aluminium cosworth engine to it, reckon the drivetrain can handle 600brake??

[SiC]

what about fitting a harvey gibb all aluminium cosworth engine to it, reckon the drivetrain can handle 600brake??

The biggest problem on these is apparently the weedy brakes.

 

Sprint uses the same brakes as the 1850, 1500 and 1300. They're a bit marginal on the 1300 to begin with...

[big_al_granvia]

princess 4 pots then

[GingerNuttz]

They can take 280bhp at least ?

[SiC]

princess 4 pots then

Trackerjack tbh.

[Yoss]

5 minutes ago, GingerNuttz said:

They can take 280bhp at least ?

WLT 894! A Routemaster registration. That belongs to a friends son in Shaftesbury. He runs Shaftesbury and District Motor Services. They also have a real Routemaster, 654 CLT. He's had a few Dolomites and Routemasters in the 25 years I've known him. 

[captain_70s]

I failed to take any pictures today, but @320touring kept a decent record of today's proceedings...

Your average street furniture circa 1995.

Fucked engine

Flywheel tae fuck.

Crank pulley tae fuck.

Timing cover tae fuck (after wrestling with one stuck screw for ages)

Timing assembly tae fuck

Tensioner was fucked, chain was slack as buggery, teeth on the sprocket were fuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

Backplate tae fuck, and the start of cleaning...

There was quite a lot of cleaning/wire brushing/sandblasting...

Not fucked engine

On the stand with aid of Dolomite backplate

Removal of head studs because some had damaged threads.

At this point @GingerNuttz had gone off with the cylinder head to the workbench and started porting it because he isn't building anything featuring the levels of casting flash BLMC considered acceptable... 

Looking at two very different crank pulleys featuring two very different nuts and two very different oil seals... This was during a period of a lot of pondering and a lot of thinking about how we could actually get this engine to function in a rwd application...

(No, I'm not going to use that head gasket on the new engine, it was just a cushion for the head when in transit. I've a nice Payen one to go on!)

 

[dome]

I have the answer to all of your problems right here

https://silodrome.com/mclaren-mercedes-mp4-19-formula-1-engine/

Couple of turbos on that and she'll be reet

[davidfowler2000]

40 minutes ago, dome said:

I have the answer to all of your problems right here

https://silodrome.com/mclaren-mercedes-mp4-19-formula-1-engine/

Couple of turbos on that and she'll be reet

All THAT power at THOSE rpms would certainly solve the problem of the short diff ratio

[SiC]

I have the answer to all of your problems right here
https://silodrome.com/mclaren-mercedes-mp4-19-formula-1-engine/
Couple of turbos on that and she'll be reet

I think having to run a mains lead from his flat to the car, to keep the oil preheaters running all the time when it's not being used could be the problem with this plan.

[320touring]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

44 minutes ago, dome said:

I have the answer to all of your problems right here
https://silodrome.com/mclaren-mercedes-mp4-19-formula-1-engine/
Couple of turbos on that and she'll be reet

I think having to run a mains lead from his flat to the car, to keep the oil preheaters running all the time when it's not being used could be the problem with this plan.

That's what the lamp posts are for