Bad Obsession Motorsport - Binky

[Sham]

And yet you can, like me, enjoy it for free if you wish.

No one forces anyone to donate, or even to watch. Again, I don't understand the hate - what they're doing doesn't need to affect anyone else in any way. I swear, people just like something to moan about.

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, Sham said:

Like most of the build - and yet people are happy with the episode that involved a flexible driveshaft for the alternator, or the novel flip front, or the electric window conversion, or the rear wiper, or the central locking, or the HVAC.

I don't understand the hate here for people doing what they want to do with a car. Because that's all it is.

There’s a difference in what you’ve said though.

A flexible driveshaft, the HVAC stuff, were necessitated by space.  This PCB bullshit is an overreach.

You can, and they have, prototyped it on the computer. Actual PCB software is out there for free and easy to use. When I was doing this for GCSEs (the last time I did it) we would print the board on to acetate, put it on a copper faced substrate and put it under a UV lamp for 10 minutes. The board would be then in a bath of acid for half an hour or something and you’d have a printed board. It takes no time at all.

That PCB will be under vibrations and other environmental stresses. There is no way the solder will stick to the board under those conditions on UK roads especially if all it took to lift the solder from the substrate was the tip of a scalpel. But the reality is that Binky is going to be a trailer queen. So in that regard it doesn’t matter. It would not survive a summer on British roads.

It’s one thing to be clever but it’s only clever if it’s useful or a good idea. This is neither of them.

[Sham]

It's over reach for what YOU think they should do on their car. What YOU think they should do is utterly and completely irrelevant.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

14 minutes ago, Sham said:

It's over reach for what YOU think they should do on their car. What YOU think they should do is utterly and completely irrelevant.

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

[St.Jude]

22 minutes ago, Sham said:

It's over reach for what YOU think they should do on their car. What YOU think they should do is utterly and completely irrelevant.

It's an over reach for a fucking PCB regardless of it's application and regardless of who does it.

Next video they'll be showing you how you could also make more storage space for your iPhone by using core rope memory.

[EyesWeldedShut]

5 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

I'm not paying them anything and we stopped watching them about half way through the Binky stuff - just got naff  once the originality wore off.
They were good, if my missus sticks around to watch YouTube car stuff then it has to be good and she did like having a laugh at the two of them bollocksing about with stuff.

[Sham]

21 minutes ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

The most obvious question here is why are you paying them £10 a month? It's your choice.

If you don't like what they're doing, or how long it's taking them - keep your money and then you'll have nothing to complain about.

14 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

It's an over reach for a fucking PCB regardless of it's application and regardless of who does it.

Next video they'll be showing you how you could also make more storage space for your iPhone by using core rope memory.

What they're doing is a viable option for what they want to achieve. Are there other ways - sure. Are those other ways better? Maybe. 

It's taken a long time because they wanted to achieve a certain look and functionality and didn't have the final specification for the board until they'd made it several times. Did you miss the part where they tried to use gauges robbed from another car, that didn't work as intended and so they changed it, that didn't work and then they settled on R/C servos? Or the other changes of plan?

It would have been just as delayed if they'd have had someone else make the boards, and then do it again, and again, and again - and they'd have not done it themselves, which is the point.

Just because you'd have done it differently doesn't make you, or them, right - it just means you think they should have done it differently to get a video out sooner.

[DirtyDaily]

What they're doing is a viable option for what they want to achieve. Are there other ways - sure. Are those other ways better? Maybe. 
It's taken a long time because they wanted to achieve a certain look and functionality and didn't have the final specification for the board until they'd made it several times. Did you miss the part where they tried to use gauges robbed from another car, that didn't work as intended and so they changed it, that didn't work and then they settled on R/C servos? Or the other changes of plan?
It would have been just as delayed if they'd have had someone else make the boards, and then do it again, and again, and again - and they'd have not done it themselves, which is the point.
Just because you'd have done it differently doesn't make you, or them, right - it just means you think they should have done it differently to get a video out sooner.

We can have the opinion that it's shit and we are disappointed though.

[St.Jude]

11 minutes ago, Sham said:

What they're doing is a viable option for what they want to achieve. Are there other ways - sure. Are those other ways better? Maybe. 

It's taken a long time because they wanted to achieve a certain look and functionality and didn't have the final specification for the board until they'd made it several times. Did you miss the part where they tried to use gauges robbed from another car, that didn't work as intended and so they changed it, that didn't work and then they settled on R/C servos? Or the other changes of plan?

It would have been just as delayed if they'd have had someone else make the boards, and then do it again, and again, and again - and they'd have not done it themselves, which is the point.

Just because you'd have done it differently doesn't make you, or them, right - it just means you think they should have done it differently to get a video out sooner.

It's a viable option for clickbait.

There is no "Maybe" to "Are those other ways better". If their way was better they wouldn't have done it, and there would be a full on subsection of the forum bemoaning the use of that method in the Ford Escorts and other rot boxes we're all driving.

I didn't miss any of the video. There is absolutely no reason against them wanting a cluster to do X. No one has said anything against them on that. What the problem is, and I think you've missed the point on this, is the use of that method to create a PCB. That method does not result in a finished product quicker, cheaper, or better than long standard methods of PCB design and production. A shit hole Catholic secondary school with second hand equipment where you had 3 hours over 2 weeks could get a PCB done in a short space of time, but an engineering firm has to resort to whatever the fuck that was for 18 months to give them something that isn't finished?

"it's up to them" to do it, but anyone with a brain about it can call out the bullshit and the sheer stupidity of it, because that is exactly what it is. It's only "clever technique" to people who think Stephen Fry is an intelligent man.

[DirtyDaily]

It's a viable option for clickbait.
There is no "Maybe" to "Are those other ways better". If their way was better they wouldn't have done it, and there would be a full on subsection of the forum bemoaning the use of that method in the Ford Escorts and other rot boxes we're all driving.
I didn't miss any of the video. There is absolutely no reason against them wanting a cluster to do X. No one has said anything against them on that. What the problem is, and I think you've missed the point on this, is the use of that method to create a PCB. That method does not result in a finished product quicker, cheaper, or better than long standard methods of PCB design and production. A shit hole Catholic secondary school with second hand equipment where you had 3 hours over 2 weeks could get a PCB done in a short space of time, but an engineering firm has to resort to whatever the fuck that was for 18 months to give them something that isn't finished?
"it's up to them" to do it, but anyone with a brain about it can call out the bullshit and the sheer stupidity of it, because that is exactly what it is. It's only "clever technique" to people who think Stephen Fry is an intelligent man.

My thoughts on the rubbish PCB they're making is do you think they're using that as the final product? My thoughts are that maybe its just a mock up for doing something else but they needed that to test the theory? I mean it still doesn't make sense because you can do it all on software but I just can't believe that's going to be the final product?

[St.Jude]

14 minutes ago, DirtyDaily said:

My thoughts on the rubbish PCB they're making is do you think they're using that as the final product? My thoughts are that maybe its just a mock up for doing something else but they needed that to test the theory? I mean it still doesn't make sense because you can do it all on software but I just can't believe that's going to be the final product?

Even as a prototype method its stupid. Just screams someone thought they knew best and decided to bastardise a process they understand to do something it's not suitable for than rather spend an hour doing something else.

Like I said though I think Binky is a trailer queen, it's not going to be on the road properly. So let them have at it.

[83C]

1 hour ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

If you were paying £10 a month to them, I doubt you’d feel the same way.  This isn’t ‘their’ project any more, it’s a commercial operation with very few deliverables.

A quick squizz at their Patreon page suggests there are two options - £2.40 a month or £5.40 a month (the inc. VAT prices), and of those I’d guess the vast majority won’t be taking the more expensive option (which is just the added extra of a discount at Competition Supplies). 

Thing is, nobody is forced to pay a penny towards them, and if anyone did become a patreon and then became unhappy at the results, then they can just stop. 

16 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

“it's up to them" to do it, but anyone with a brain about it can call out the bullshit and the sheer stupidity of it, because that is exactly what it is. It's only "clever technique" to people who think Stephen Fry is an intelligent man.

The whole car is sheer stupidity, or at the very least utterly pointless from any practical viewpoint. That isn’t the point of it, same as any custom car build. Look at all the Retropower stuff, similarly pointless. Shortening an Audi chassis to fit under a Saab body, or chopping up a pair of Integras to be rebodied with Allegro shells? No more or less daft than Binky in my onion, and I’m glad that both Retropower and Bad Obsession are doing such things. It’s near enough the same argument as why wouldn’t you just buy a new car from an established manufacturer rather than modifying an old one, and if that sort of question has to be asked, then it misses the whole point of why people build cars like this. The whole PCB saga was done that way because they could. Same as stuffing the running gear from a Celica GT4 under a Mini - nobody would do it that way if they wanted the sensible answer, because if you want something that goes as well as a GT4 with a tuned 3S-GTE then the easy option is buy a GT4 and tune it. Taking all the kit and then shoving it under a Mini is an entirely pointless extra layer of complexity, but like almost everything in building cars such as Binky, the ‘why have they done it this way’ question is largely non-applicable, and easily answered with ‘Because we can’.

[DirtyDaily]

The whole car is sheer stupidity, or at the very least utterly pointless from any practical viewpoint.

I disagree. The point of binky is a drive able, enjoyable, fast, mini. All the mod cons and no draw backs built as if it came as a production car not a slapped together project. Ultimate no corners cut.
This isn't about corner cutting it's just about using a better method as the one they've done doesn't make any sense. Everything else makes sense even down to the flip front. Boot space, large fuel tank, aircon, working alternator, big power, legal wheel arches etc.
Reinventing the wheel BADLY to make dashboard lights doesn't make sense to me or inkeep with binky. I agree they needed to get it right but the right result could of been had 18 months a go.

Binky has become something greater than someone's project, it's gained a following and admiration. I feel there has to be some responsibility from the artist to finish it correctly after people have waited over 10 years for it. If you think they don't owe us anything and it's their car then I suppose that's a legitimate response but it won't go down well for the car, them or their career going forward.

I feel as if something else has gone on behind the scenes that has caused this as the whole thing doesn't add up to me.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

2 hours ago, Sham said:

The most obvious question here is why are you paying them £10 a month? It's your choice.

If you don't like what they're doing, or how long it's taking them - keep your money and then you'll have nothing to complain about.

I'm not. I'm just pointing out a viewpoint that I have already seen elsewhere (Reddit, etc.).  People are emotionally invested and it's a commercial enterprise.  This isn't you and your mate Steve (other mates are available) spannering around the back of a workshop in your spare time and recording it.  Bad Obsession make a considerable amount of money from this.  It's a business and the longer they stretch it out, the more money they stand to make, especially as Binky is the reason that most people have invested.

The cynic looks at the gap between the latest video and the one before, looks at the product and may reach the conclusion that they've deliberately used a shit process that takes a long time to stretch it out and make more money.

Anybody with the smallest modicum of electronics knowledge knows that you can prototype PCBs rapidly at minimal cost.  Even if they'd sent iterative designs to PCBWay, they could have had them made and sent back to test within a couple of days.

[Sham]

 

9 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

The cynic looks at the gap between the latest video and the one before, looks at the product and may reach the conclusion that they've deliberately used a shit process that takes a long time to stretch it out and make more money.

Anyone who thinks that is absolutely free to stop paying money, or stop watching it.

Then the flow of money to those evil fat cat car builders ripping off the poor innocent consumers stops.