Eye-catching black and whites

[sheffcortinacentre]

The door appears to be above the waste line on the above vehicle is it amphibious?

That MK4 Cortina is one of three built for the tour of Australia two survive I have a series of articles in an Australian musclecar Mag on it they where extensively strengthened to cope on the event.

[JimH]

Someone asking about a lathe set me off on my semi-regular search to see if anyone was selling a suitable boring machine. Instead I found this story of an unsuitable one.

[lesapandre]

That ought to be an annual award. Like Horse of the Year Show or Sports Parsnip of the Year. 

[JeeExEll]

Some sort of prototype Pug 106?

It's the Ford Ghia 'Blue Car' design concept from 1971.  In black & white.

[JeeExEll]

Some sort of Russian thing.  I hope it can fly too when required via a control-lever you can just pull back.

[JeeExEll]

[lesapandre]

Austin 1800 - I think this is the Pininfarina design that was rejected by BMC in favour of their own design - that they then got Pininfarina to tidy up.

Another car the market did not really want with predictable smaller than projected sales. They probably never made any real money out of them.

Up against the Cortina and significantly more expensive to buy and run - did not really stand a chance.

[ETCHY]

9 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Austin 1800 - I think this is the Pininfarina design that was rejected by BMC in favour of their own design - that they then got Pininfarina to tidy up.

Another car the market did not really want with predictable smaller than projected sales. They probably never made any real money out of them.

Up against the Cortina and significantly more expensive to buy and run - did not really stand a chance.

Yep the 1800 was so good in many ways but just didn't hit the mark with the punters. Part of the trouble was Issigonis, no doubting the guy was an engineering genius but he was very single minded/stubborn when it came to the design & features of cars. This worked great with the Mini & the 1100 (although thankfully Pininfarina styled the 1100) but didn't translate well into bigger cars as basically they were very similar to a Mini inside (space is great but a dashboard similar to a Mini & controls you can't reach ain't acceptable on a big car). The steering was also heavy & the car looked ungainly. Plus advanced engineering comes at a price.

Unfortunately IMO you can really see the 1800 as being the point where things started to go wrong with BMC . A pity as it is basically a great car but like so many others unfortunately missed its target market.

[lesapandre]

You hit the nail on the head - absolutely. A great concept but the 1800 engine was too thirsty and the car, at the time, slightly too big for the market segment - thats and lots of other things led to really disappointing sales. Great bit of design but flawed.

Another what if...the Farina look makes for a more desirable car IMHO.

Issigonis and co did very little market or in-depth prototype testing - did not seem to be the BMC way.  There were reliablity and quality problems too.

Friends had on in the 60's so travelled a bit in it. Heavyweight steering and an interior as austere as a Trappist  monastery I recall. Fuel consumption pretty dire - they only kept it a shortish time and replaced with a 1300GT which they did like a lot.

[artdjones]

The Mini was where it started to go wrong.It couldn't be made at a profit.And some skimping was done.For example there were originally guards under the front wheel arch to protect the A pillar/scuttle area.This was deleted,producing a great mud trap.

By now Issigonis had become a real egoist.He designed a really tremendous car,the ADO16,which was full of mud traps.Pressed Steel,who were making the bodies,pointed this out ,but Issigonis knew better.What is the 11/1300 most remembered for? That's right,rusting away in 8 years.

[lesapandre]

We had one new in '72 - rust coming through by '76.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

14 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Austin 1800 - I think this is the Pininfarina design that was rejected by BMC in favour of their own design - that they then got Pininfarina to tidy up.

I thought this was the Pininfarina 1800 for BMC?

[lesapandre]

That too. It's a later 1967 proposed redesign of the original car then in production. Beautiful thing. BMC did not take up the offer and once Leyland took over they dropped the Pininfarina connection and styled in-house.

It was Citroen who really adopted this style a little later.

Whole sad saga here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060319040610if_/http://www.austin-rover.co.uk:80/index.htm?ado17indexf.htm

[STUNO]

My 1800 had power steering !

[Remspoor]

[Remspoor]

[Remspoor]

[NorfolkNWeigh]

1 hour ago, Remspoor said:

What's with the hatch/sunroof in this?  Is it for the copper to stand up for some reason- traffic control, observation, shooting at people? Or was it just so prisoners could enjoy the Spanish sunshine? Any ideas.

[Bfg]

^ Spanish sunshine can be viscous - so the open roof at the back would let the heat out but not scorch the officers who sit in the car all day.  Conversely anyone in the rear seat might only be in there for half an hour.. 

Many years ago we drove that way to a 2cv world meeting in an open top kit-car,  but had to have the roof up for most of the journey because the sun was literally blistering us. 

[Remspoor]

@BfgCould be right.

[bigstraight6]

[somewhatfoolish]

Where was that then? What a fantastic bit of concrete lunacy.

[bigstraight6]

28 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Where was that then? What a fantastic bit of concrete lunacy.

Turnbulls Garage on Charles cross roundabout, Plymouth. I remember buying fuel there back in the mid 80’s, they were a Vauxhall main dealers at that time, a much missed local landmark...

[Dick Cheeseburger]

2 minutes ago, bigstraight6 said:

Turnbulls Garage on Charles cross roundabout, Plymouth. I remember buying fuel there back in the mid 80’s, they were a Vauxhall main dealers at that time, a much missed local landmark...

I lived in Plymouth for four years until the late 90s - I don't remember being able to drive right in - I only remember a small forecourt out front for fuel? 

[ETCHY]

On 12/30/2019 at 7:46 PM, artdjones said:

The Mini was where it started to go wrong.It couldn't be made at a profit.And some skimping was done.For example there were originally guards under the front wheel arch to protect the A pillar/scuttle area.This was deleted,producing a great mud trap.

By now Issigonis had become a real egoist.He designed a really tremendous car,the ADO16,which was full of mud traps.Pressed Steel,who were making the bodies,pointed this out ,but Issigonis knew better.What is the 11/1300 most remembered for? That's right,rusting away in 8 years.

Issigonis ego was huge. He hated radios in cars that's why they were an after thought in his cars. He thought drivers should be uncomfortable so they were.. He was a design genious but his legacy also runs to helping to damage BMC/BL.

The mini was costed very badly, Ford took one apart and found that a loss was made on each one. Thing is at least it did sell and was at least popular. The 1800 (which I actually rather like) really was the wrong car and basically just an Issigonis folly.  If it had sold well and maybe been  styled differently -having to subsequently use the centre section for the 3 litre and its doors for the Maxi might not have had such a negative impact on those cars.

It really is all so sad. Ford weren't better cars they just costed them better and sold to a ready market after doing more market research.

[artdjones]

I really like the 1800 too,but it should have been properly styled.Of course BMC could have used the Pininfarina 1800 and 1100 designs from 1967 and 1968 to restyle their cars,but didn't bother,allowing Citroen to build the very similar CX and GS.The Maxi could have used similar styling as well , instead of the frumpy look they gave it.

Also,why was only the Maxi given a 5 speed gearbox,with the 1800,Princess,and Ambassador having to make do with only 4 ratios, right through to the mid 80s.

Issigonis was an egomaniac,but one of top management's functions is to control people like him.Their failure to do that was just one of many ways in which they failed.

[JeeExEll]

Looks like a Bini.

[artdjones]

2 hours ago, JeeExEll said:

Looks like a Bini.

I was going to say looks like a plonker,but then realised you meant the car.

A Bini?A bit small isn't it.

[Remspoor]

18 hours ago, ETCHY said:

............

It really is all so sad. Ford weren't better cars they just costed them better and sold to a ready market after doing more market research.

Sort of agreed, just that when the Mini came out Ford were offering as the small car the side valved vacuum powered wipers 100E family. Marketing was good for the Transit, Cortina and early Escorts. Only to go to pot later

[artdjones]

Which is more sensible,to make a profit on every car selling 100Es,or to make a loss on every car selling Minis?In any case,1959 was the year that the 105E came out,with an ohv oversquare 1 litre engine.It cost 20%more than a Mini,but was much easier to service,and actually had luggage space.