Wet Motorway Cars

[forddeliveryboy]

Bloody weather. I've opted for wretched paperwork instead of a trip down the A1 through Yorkshire - I hate busy motorways in the wet, especially when there's a greasy layer of oil and rubber yet to be washed off when there's been a long dry period. This view

 

 

over this one won.

 

 

 

 

There's something about the Yorkshire sections of the A1, everyone both more aggressive and even less courteous than usual - add in a few horrid junctions which make the old Wetherby roundabout look like tea on the lawn and it's a bit of road to endure rather than enjoy when it's wet. Exit North into County Durham and everyone's blood pressure seems to fall a bit, the same happens south of the M62. Is it just the higher concentration of Yorkshiremen? There seems to be something about the psyche of the road itself - it was a much happier place when it was two lanes of never-ending curves and crests.

 

Dodging doing the paperwork and browsing on here, which car would be my choice for a wet Mway? Sitting low, rolling on wide tyres, dodgy electrics and engines with no torque are all no fun, especially if you're in the channels gouged by HGVs. Brakes must be peerless with stability associated with a dart rather than a sycamore seed preferable, engine to the front ideally.

 

So the SudSprint's out and a 2cv is too slow. Dyanes are up to it if the engine's a goodun but you'll scare/enrage other car drivers if you're in the outside lane at an indicated 85mph on the BMW speedos. Old English is usually ok but all the windows will constantly steam up, apart from the five inches above the screen ducts - even with the fan and heater on full, gently puffing the mild air out. My old Dolly took everything I threw at it in its stride, never wavered. Still miss it, in some ways.

 

In contrast, the Saab 99 used to get properly excited when conditions turned nasty. Citroen-like wheel dimensions sliced through everything, build quality embarrassed Mercs, brakes and steering were spot on. There was even a wiper stalk setting for continuous wash with fast wipe to show how totally serious the company was at producing cars for all conditions. The heater would have dried out a peat bog, the rear window stayed demisted without electricity and if you came over all Ari Vatanen the chassis gripped and gripped.

 

[mercrocker]

I find my T25 to be my best vehicle for a wet motorway.  As long as its not windy....The Minors not bad either.  As long as its not dark....

T25 has excellent stability, relaxed high-set driving position and good windowage for spotting blind spot lurkers.   Minor has really stiff quarterlights that stay open in a hurricane and boost the comedy heater output to decent levels.  Best torque was from my old W123 280E - it ran right on the cam at 70mph and ever-ready for a quick lane-change lunge.  Pissed petrol though!    Actually, nowadays I tend to avoid motorways and even more so in bad visibility, they are just too stress-inducing, at least the people that use them seem to be....

[beko1987]

That looks like the M40 did this morning. I laughed from the inside lane as everyone hopped from 80 to 50 around me. Couldnt have the window open though as water pisses over the front quarterlight and onto my arm with the wipers on.

 

Cant fault it though in the rain, too heavy to be bashed about by wind, rarely aquaplanes, set the intermittant wipers to just so and relax!

[wuvvum]

if you came over all Ari Vatanen the chassis gripped and gripped.

 

I found that the main drawback to hooning in a 99 was that the steering had about 18 turns lock to lock.

 

I find the Rover of Doom pretty decent on a wet motorway.  It's stable, the wipers are adequately quick, it doesn't mist up, and it has (when it's running right) plenty of power to get out of almost any situation.  The only slight drawback is that the brakes aren't the most confidence-inspiring in the wet.

 

Would imagine the Delica would be pretty good too, although I haven't had occasion to test it yet.  Again very stable, high enough up that it isn't affected by spray, and big and heavy enough that if it does get involved in anything nasty the other bloke is probably going to come off worst, unless he's in a 38-tonner.  Wipers could do with being a bit quicker though - common thing on "clap-hands" setups I've found.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I remember in about 1990 when I first drove a 4 wheel drive 'normal' car, the feeling of stability and control on streaming wet motorways was amazing. You have to remember that at this time even the best 4x4s, meaning Range Rovers, never felt entirely comfortable at speed and traction and stability control if available was very primitive .

That first 4x4 was a 200 Quattro ,but even the strange 2.0i L Cavalier and BX estate had that same unshakeable feel to them, of course it just meant I drove faster in the rain-probably not what was intended.

[Junkman]

Is a bit of rain the new OMGSNOKAOS now?

Maybe the British isles should be covered with a roof and climatised?

We could then also dig a cellar underneath Wales and tile Scotland.

[Bobthebeard]

Is a bit of rain the new OMGSNOKAOS now?

Maybe the British isles should be covered with a roof and climatised?

We could then also dig a cellar underneath Wales and tile Scotland.

Lol... Fair comment.

Although many of us* (well, me anyway) are at a stage in life when any less stress is a good thing. Driving along a wet and overcrowded motorway is stressful, unless the stress is replaced by anger and adrenaline.

The ability to be able to waft along such a motorway in peace and harmony with your chosen chod is priceless. Battling the elements with barely able wipers, iffy demisting and poor visibility is not great. Happily all three of my cars are good in such conditions, the Prelude in particular!

IMHO.

[forddeliveryboy]

Is a bit of rain the new OMGSNOKAOS now?

Maybe the British isles should be covered with a roof and climatised?

We could then also dig a cellar underneath Wales and tile Scotland.

 

Yes, I think it's getting there partly due to cars which are 1/ too fast for their own and their drivers' good  2/ have massively different levels of grip in the wet and dry and 3/ give the driver no idea of road conditions.

 

Too many find 19 airbags, NCAP 5* and ABS, TC, ESC and all the other acronymns make them feel invincible, for a while. So they drive too with too little margin for error and surprise. Then they have a white knuckle moment when the electronics almost fail to sort things out, then they drive excessively slowly.

 

85hp, 165 tyres and a drip on the crotch is obviously the answer.

[Richard]

Quite a lot of Wales already does have a cellar.

[Junkman]

Too many find 19 airbags, NCAP 5* and ABS, TC, ESC and all the other acronymns make them feel invincible, for a while.

Thou shalt not drive such newfangled tosh.

 

 

85hp, 165 tyres and a drip on the crotch is obviously the answer.

 

My best motorway in rain cruiser has just not quite twice that power, 185 tyres, and drips on the shoulder, but it has exemplary stability and clear windows at all times.

Especially at such ludicrously low speeds as the British national limit, I would feel quite safe on a wet motorway with a Renault 4L, though.

[Junkman]

Lol... Fair comment.

Although many of us* (well, me anyway) are at a stage in life when any less stress is a good thing. Driving along a wet and overcrowded motorway is stressful, unless the stress is replaced by anger and adrenaline.

The ability to be able to waft along such a motorway in peace and harmony with your chosen chod is priceless. Battling the elements with barely able wipers, iffy demisting and poor visibility is not great. Happily all three of my cars are good in such conditions, the Prelude in particular!

IMHO.

 

That's so heartwarmingly First World, I love it.

 

However, I think the real issue is that the British motorway and main road network is woefully inadequate for the mobility requirements of a 21st Century industrialised country.

Whatever the immense tax money is spent on (I haven't figured that out yet), infrastructure it is not.

[dollywobbler]

I'm baffled as to why a 4x4 version of a car would feel any different on a wet motorway to a FWD version. All-wheel drive gives better traction, so definite benefits when pulling away on a wet roundabout at full pelt for instance, but I can't see how the physics would make a difference at speed, in a straight line.

 

BXs do feel pretty planted, especially diesels due to all that nose weight. They're not too hot in crosswinds though and the single wiper is utter stupidity. Also, the blower motor is a bit feeble. The Merc W124 felt pretty unflappable and its wiper is swifter, though the jiggling can get on my nerves as it jumps out to the corner of the windscreen.

[chaseracer]

Dyanes are up to it if the engine's a goodun but you'll scare/enrage other car drivers if you're in the outside lane at an indicated 85mph on the BMW speedos...

 

Bin there, dun that.

 

[HMC]

My old w126 500sel was great on the motorway, thin ish tyres by modern standards, ABS, a huge leather sofa to lounge on, a long striding top gear ( 3k revs at 90) but for the MPG it was perfect.TBH If you stuck at 70 with the cruise on you'd get 28mpg which for what it was I thought pretty decent.

[Sloth in a bowl]

Last october when there was the big storm that closed Dover port I drove from Dover (last boat in thank god) to Birmingham and was surprised to be the fastest person on the M40. Just chugging along at legal plus delta legal when everybody else had backed right off.

My weapon of choice for this epic* achivement was the Volvo V40 with really shit tyres. It didn't seem to notice the rain and wind.

[gordonbennet]

Been using the Outback the last week or so, sticks like shit to a blanket, can see why my Mrs likes it so much, turning right at a junction or getting out on busy roundabouts is childs plays, full power take offs on turns it doesn't flicker an eyebrow at whatever the road conditions.

 

If i tried any of this with the old Benz it would end in full wheelspin then sideways.

 

Wet road higher speed the Subaru has it too, just point it and it goes there, no slips or slides.

 

 

Me lorry on the other hand, the drive axle tyres were recut about 2 months ago and are down to about 5mm, its bloody scary at the moment, wheelspin constantly, even up in 11th gear empty, about another month or six weeks before they get swapped out for a new set of Bridgestones, can't wait.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I'm baffled as to why a 4x4 version of a car would feel any different on a wet motorway to a FWD version. All-wheel drive gives better traction, so definite benefits when pulling away on a wet roundabout at full pelt for instance, but I can't see how the physics would make a difference at speed, in a straight line.

 

BXs do feel pretty planted, especially diesels due to all that nose weight. They're not too hot in crosswinds though and the single wiper is utter stupidity. Also, the blower motor is a bit feeble. The Merc W124 felt pretty unflappable and its wiper is swifter, though the jiggling can get on my nerves as it jumps out to the corner of the windscreen.

Motorways tend not to go in straight lines, a slight bend taken at 80 in the dry can become a completely different ball game in the wet,especially if there are seams in concrete ,mastic,drains,white lines etc. the sense of unflappability imparted by those first 4x4s was similar to when ABS first became common. Modern ESP etc has now taken over and whenever I switch it off for some juvenile oversteer fun it shocks me how easy it is to unstick the back wheels. As much as I love SD1s e28 BMWs and mk2 Granadas, in the wet ,even on motorways you were always walking a tightrope if pressing on . Although it could be said the reason I switch driver aids off today for fun is because of what those old overpowered under gripped things taught me.

[Spiny Norman]

Funnily enough the two Swedes I've had recently represented one of the best and one of the worst.
The Saab 900 was excellent on motorways in bad conditions. A decent bit of weight over the front (driven) wheels shod with comparatively narrow 185 tyres and a sleek shape made for very contented cruising, even in some pretty shitty weather.

 

Conversely the 240 estate does far less well.

Even in the dry it's very susceptible to crosswinds, experiencing twitches which can feel like the first tenth of a second of a blow-out, not good. In the wet its age and RWD-ness shines through and I'll often back off to such an extent that I end up mixing it with the trucks in the slow lane.

Ah well, does wonders for its fuel economy I guess....

[forddeliveryboy]

DW, I tend to agree with you regarding OMG4x4AWESUM - loads of them are a liability at speed, especially in nasty weather. But taking the Audi comment which provoked your query, a 100 or 200 quattro looked the same car yet had totally different rear suspension which did improve them no end. Added to which, they built them better, there was a less uneven mass distribution (with more over the rear axle and more mass low down) and any fwd with a powerful engine is going to improve when less power goes through the steered axle.

 

I doubt a 4x4 124 would be much if anything of an improvement on a wet motorway unless a 200hp+ monster, since it has the same underpinnings with a fine rear axle to start with.

 

Subies are good not because of the four driven wheels alone, but because they're well sorted cars. Excellent suspension, boxer engines with low mass centres and so on. A lot of Highland Scots who used to run Saabs have Subarus today, those I've chatted with reckon they're almost as good (and there's nothing else which gives the same combination of qualities) - the poorer year-round fuel economy can be weighed off against not having to have a set of winter tyres, if you're tight and don't mind sliding down hills in the snow.

 

 

a slight bend taken at 80 in the dry can become a completely different ball game in the wet,especially if there are seams in concrete ,mastic,drains,white lines etc

 

In CXs it was fascinating to observe how people slowed on motorways so much when it wasn't dry and warm - I've never known anything before or since with such stability at high speeds, even with silly amounts of hp going through the front wheels. A look at the size and engineering quality of the front hubs and suspension components, subframe and steering offer all the answers. The rear axle was huge - bigger and more strongly located than anything I've ever seen on any other car,and many commercials.

[Luckythirteen]

I'll vouch for the Subaru Legacy, it's completely composed in the wet. I assumed it would be the 4wd, but maybe not: the old boy reckons it's the weight of the thing, quite a lot of which is up front. Mind you, he likes big estates, and reckons most of them are a good bet, as long as they don't have massive tyres and rocks suspension.

Came to that conclusion after hitting a big puddle on the M8 in his old 850 T5...

The Clio is hopeless though. Too light (weighs half a Legacy), but at least it doesn't lull me into a false sense of security. At anything over about 55 it starts flapping.

[forddeliveryboy]

I'll vouch for the Subaru Legacy, it's completely composed in the wet. I assumed it would be the 4wd, but maybe not: the old boy reckons it's the weight of the thing, quite a lot of which is up front.

The Clio is hopeless though. Too light (weighs half a Legacy), but at least it doesn't lull me into a false sense of security. At anything over about 55 it starts flapping.

 

 

And the engine mass is low down - if I get into the 124 after something with a horizontally-opposed lump, for the first few miles going round corners I'm very aware of that heavy, upright mass of metal which the front end has to constantly prevent falling over. Imagine walking with a car battery perched on your head instead of strapped to your waist, I tell people. They usually look at me in a strange fashion and silently nod their heads.

 

The worse conditions get and the faster you go, the more this sort of thing really tells. Over a long journey, the effect is considerable. Added to which a flat twin, four or six is the finest companion over a few hours, tiring so much less than an inline. Except perhaps for a six.

 

Lots of smaller cars are over-sprung to pacify women drivers - which can make them unstable at male speeds.

[Asimo]

Another vote for Subaru Legacy. A very "planted" sort of car, always on the driver's side. I've had mine for seven years and I can't think of anything else that would be as good all round for the money except perhaps an A8. Probably. But it would keep breaking.

The BX was good except for the completely useless wiper and miserable seat. Even older, SaaB 99 ticked most Motorway boxes but mine was a Triumph engined one and pretty gutless. Ro80 was jolly good, whirring along at 90+, felt like it would go for ever.....

[dollywobbler]

I ruined my Legacy by fitting cheap Chinese ditchfinders to it. The levels of understeer were terrifying. The Japanese do good wipers though and the heater blower was insanely powerful. It even had push-button electric controls that actually worked. Amazing. I should never have sold that car. It sold for bugger all to a couple of horrible chancers from the South East. I only sold it because there was a tiny bit of rot on one of the front wheelarches, the usual rocker cover oil leak and a marked reluctance to do better (or worse to be fair) than 27mpg.

[Barry Cade]

The W124 IS the perfect motorway car,even if it's pissing down. Here's my 250 quid 200e doing what Merc's do best. Yes- I replaced the ABS sensor, and the music isn't added, it was NDR radio on the factory Blaubunkt.

 

 

 

The little MGF was surprisingly amazing on the Autobahn, all the way to Frankfurt in a torrential rainstorm- but I was very aware about how small it was and how little light the taillights gave out. Directional stability was superb, even in fairly deep standing water.

[twosmoke300]

I love the saab 9-5 when conditions get shitty.

The heater could melt glass I reckon.

[HH-R]

My Panda came with 2 "Arrowspeed" tyres on the back, and a Conti and something else on the front. A garage recently put on an "Infinity" on the front (without asking) which looks like a 4x4 tyre and makes it sound like the car has a knackered wheel bearing whilst offering absolutely no grip whatsoever.

 

All of them have plenty tread on so I wanted to wear em down a bit before putting them all in the bin where they belong but I drove in mild rain yesterday and it was a joke. Can't go above 50 at all otherwise it feels like you're floating. There's nothing to be felt through the steering. Spun the wheels a few times with the most gentle of takeoffs with all of 60 BHP. Rubbish.

[barefoot]

All my cars iz shit.

 

944 on 205's and 225's wants to aquaplane at the first sign of a puddle and 12 speed wipers or not, they still won't go fast enough to see out of the windscreen when you're passing a lorry at waist height.

The Scirocco is similar, but not quite as twitchy.

And the T2 is barely man enough to be on the motorway in the first place, never mind when is windy and rainy.

 

I seem to remember that my old Audi 100 c2 always felt pretty secure though.

Are big cars better?

[rml2345]

^ I think the extra weight in a big car helps, based on my experience. As long as it's not on daftly wide tyres.

the Yaris was pretty hopeless in the wet and crosswinds at motorway speeds used to make it wobble quite alarmingly. Similarly, square Volvos don't like winds but aren't too bad otherwise and the demisting powers are extraordinary. The Honda Accord for all its Hondaness was pretty decent in the wet.

Still didn't like it.

[Cavcraft]

I try not to drive like a twat, but in big/comfortable cars I probably go quicker in the pissing rain than I do in small cars, probably feel safer or something. I think perhaps old small cars are the worse, you feel sort of quite prone and as the weedy wipers are struggling with floods of water sprays from HGVS and wankers in 4x4s doing 110mph, the wind buffets you and it's quite scary at times.

 

I'd suggest a large-ish saloon car with good tyres is the best option.

[Justin Case]

Another vote for Saabs. My 99 laughed at anything the weather threw at it, as did the 900s, but the best was the 96V4. Engine right at the front and non-PAS with 155x15 tyres meant that it scythed through anything, wind, rain, hail, snow, the lot with a feeling of utter security; although I will admit that I had to slow down a bit when the fog descended