DMF To Solid Conversions. Worth It?

[warren t claim]

My dog van Focus Tdci needs a new clutch and the company spanner man wants to replace the flywheel while he's in there, the car vibes like it might of had a solid conversion in the past although that could just be the engine never getting serviced. 

 

Is junking the DMF considered a worthwhile thing to do and does anyone have any experience of having the job done and how does it affect the way the car drives?

 

Thanks!

[sutty2006]

ive got a mondeo TDCi, it hit the forums about solid mass conversions and a few people said once it was done, the drive was awful, clutch was either on or off. The dual mass is there to take up the vibrations from the torque of the engine, so i'd say stick with how it was designed.... I know its expensive yadda yadda yadda but somethings are ment to be kept that way

[tooSavvy]

Practically Crabsicks did a 'yay or no' piece.

 

Consensus seemed to be - might lunch your box or [...hmmm] crap yrr engine.

 

All about snatch loading on bit that might not take it.....

 

WCPGW

 

 

TS

[Pillock]

A guy at work had the solid conversion on a Mondeo and whether it was just "that" age or whether the flywheel triggered it I don't know, but suddenly it just seemed to start driving like shit. Really noisy and slack feeling.... Lack of DMF passing vibration through to worn mounts maybe?

[Danblez]

Only anecdotal evidence out there but I have heard all sorts of probable nonsense. But it was enough to put me off and stick another DMF in my focus.

[Stixy]

For the price of a new dmf & clutch kit  you could buy somthing that doesnt need one 

 

Sorry that wasnt a lot of help was it 

 

But if it was me i would stick a solid one in and forget it  , i cant see how it could damage an engine or box as long as the new one is ballanced  as a crank or mainshaft still has to be up to its job 

[Stanky]

I had heard that replacing a DMF with a solid flywheel did transmit more vibration, potentially damaging either the engine or gearbox. However that said, how much longer do you intend to keep the car and what is the difference in cost between the two options? From memory you're looking at 8 hours at a mechanic to change the clutch due to the need to drop the subframe (even if its just on one side), presumably you have to drop the whole subframe to do the flywheel so is the difference in price of the part going to be a deciding factor here? or is it going to be eye-wateringly expensive either way

 

If it were me, and I was prepared to pony up for the labour, I'd get a new DMF put in so it remains as ford intended, it should be good for another 70-125k miles if the internetz is to be believed, even with a DMF slowly turning to metallic fluff?

[Bren]

I believe ford and vw were threatening legal action against firms who supplied the conversions as some of their cars were suffering with broken cranks.

 

I think they are popular on transits, not sure about anything else.

[Guest Lord Sward]

Don't even consider fitting a solid flywheel conversion.

[Richard]

I had a Citroen Xantia with the 110 HDi engine and a solid flywheel from the factory and a C5 with the same engine and a DMF.

 

The Xantia felt much livelier than the C5 but it was a boneshaker of a thing, every piece of rubber in the engine mounts and front suspension was buggered. The C5's engine mounts and suspension bushes are still as good as new. Much as I hate to admit it I have to conclude that the DMF is probably needed with that engine, and it's in a fairly mild state of tune by common rail diesel standards.

[red5]

The DMF moves the job of damping from the clutch driven plate to the flywheel. Not sure how many of those 'conversions' actually have a driven plate properly sprung to make up for the lack of flywheel damping.

 

A common fix on Fronterror 2.8 is to weld flywheel up and fit a Trooper standard 3.1 driven plate off a non DMF flywheel. Win all round.

[Station]

TBH, the idea of a solid crank is great, but for a few quid more you could have a standard new DMF, and it'll last another 50,000 - 100,000 miles (or however long they last for), and not have the trouble of worrying about possible made-up crank snappery tales.

[Jim Bergerac]

Not knowingly driven one myself, but I've heard that cars with solid conversions are much rougher to drive. Very noticeably so.

[tooSavvy]

R-M-C

[DaveAspley]

Vw (well, Skoda at least) sell a solid conversion for the 1.9 pd diesels. Fitted loads to local minicabs and the only difference is they get almost double the mileage out of a clutch now. Drives exactly the same, even the one with 296000 on it!!

[warren t claim]

The problem is 70-100,000 mile DMF life will mean that it needs doing again within 18 months!

[spike60]

I put a solid flywheel conversion into No1 son's Mondeo tdci last year, the friction disc was sprung and the conversion was £50 cheaper than another DMF and clutch. The clutch worked fine but felt a bit wooden, it didn't have overcentre spring feel you usually get with a new diaphragm clutch plate and the engine had a different note on idle. Don't think most folk would comment on driving it though. Main reason for fitting was previous DMF didn't last 40k, this didn't matter as car was sold on Tuesday tho!

[philsford]

I have a Mondeo TDCI with a solid conversion. I have only done 2000 miles so far so cannot comment on the life span but at low revs there is more vibration than before but it is not unbearable. If I was going to replace a dmf for dmf I would buy genuine parts to give yourself some kind of chance of getting 100k+ out of it. I used a Valeo solid conversion in mine from car spares distribution. I would avoid the really cheap kits on ebay.

[New POD]

Lets say you put a genuine DMF and new clutch in an old car.  You might have spent more on the car than the car is worth.....BUT.....that bit of the car is going to be good for 10 years, so I think it's really down to what the rest of the car is like....I wouldn't piss around with a normal cutch on a modern diesel.

[overrun]

When mine eventually needs changing, I will be fitting another DMF.

As said, it will outlast my needs for the car.

[Joey spud]

I have a Focus 1.8 tdci that had a solid flywheel fitted by the main dealer before i bought it and it does have a bit of vibration and harshness to it compared to a dmf but its perfectly useable.

 

My old work transit ate its dmf clutch after 26k and i am not a serial work van abuser,the lease company told the dealer to go the solid route and it was a bit more vibey afterwards but it still had that clutch in it at 156k when the old warrior went back to be replaced by the shitty vw i have now.

 

I think if the car is a keeper and something nice then pay the extra and go the dmf route,if its a working high mile motor go solid.

 

What i do see now days is clutches overheat very easily i don't know if its because they have removed the asbestos and gone over to an organic material (whatever that is ?).

 

There is a big hill coming out of Bluewater shopping centre down here where traffic builds and long queues form so it can take 20 mins of stop/start clutch action on a steep incline to get out at closing time.

Some drivers tend to ride their clutches all the way up it and overheat them then ring in complaining of a burning smell or smoke from under the bonnet.

Some will get hot enough to make them slip and loose drive altogether but 9 times out of ten by the time i get through the traffic (now made worse by the clutchless motor in a live lane) the clutch will have cooled down and function again but i guess it must knock some life out of them.

[fordperv]

I have to agree with the guys who say go for dmf, I worked in a parts supply shop and the people who purchased solid flywheel conversions from us used to get in touch asking if the extra vibration and noise was normal, the only ones who didn't get in touch were taxi drivers and the transit drivers I think this was because mainly their vehicle was earning money so it didn't particularly matter for a bit of extra vibration and noise,

 

The replacement will probably outlast the vehicle, but it's all on what you want at the end of the day

[Pete-M]

Replacing DMF with solid flywheel makes most Diesels truly horrible to drive. Especially TDCi Fords.

 

DMFs actually work. They cut down vibration massively. I know a lad with a Mondeo TDCi that has a "normal" flywheel instead of the DMF is was built with. It is fucking horrible, but it used to be a nice car... Before he cheapskated on the clutch. Now it is nasty to drive, nasty to listen to and the clutch action is nasty.

 

Even cabbies know better than to fit solid flywheels instead of DMFs. A fair few have tried the solid conversions but in my experience most won't try that again. Not worth it. Car feels shit afterward and if you're gonna spend 12 hours a day for the next couple of years in a car that is horrible to drive that's a whole load of time to regret bodging it to save a couple of ton.

 

DMF clutch and flywheel will normally last 80-100k in something like a Mondeo used as a cab anyway. Skimping on it just isn't worth it.

[cort16]

DMF. That's unbelievable.

[alf892]

I have a Focus 1.8 tdci that had a solid flywheel fitted by the main dealer before i bought it and it does have a bit of vibration and harshness to it compared to a dmf but its perfectly useable.

 

My old work transit ate its dmf clutch after 26k and i am not a serial work van abuser,the lease company told the dealer to go the solid route and it was a bit more vibey afterwards but it still had that clutch in it at 156k when the old warrior went back to be replaced by the shitty vw i have now.

 

I think if the car is a keeper and something nice then pay the extra and go the dmf route,if its a working high mile motor go solid.

 

What i do see now days is clutches overheat very easily i don't know if its because they have removed the asbestos and gone over to an organic material (whatever that is ?).

 

There is a big hill coming out of Bluewater shopping centre down here where traffic builds and long queues form so it can take 20 mins of stop/start clutch action on a steep incline to get out at closing time.

Some drivers tend to ride their clutches all the way up it and overheat them then ring in complaining of a burning smell or smoke from under the bonnet.

Some will get hot enough to make them slip and loose drive altogether but 9 times out of ten by the time i get through the traffic (now made worse by the clutchless motor in a live lane) the clutch will have cooled down and function again but i guess it must knock some life out of them.

Too right about the heat thing..........which probably plays it's part where DMFs fail prematurely. That and the stop start systems.

After all they is nothing complex about them....its just a damper.

 

I put a clutch in mine at about 110kk and couldn't afford to change the flywheel really (would have if it was obviously FKD).......so just gave it a good look at and put it back.

[warren t claim]

In the interests of Autoshite science and due to the fact I'm not paying the bill for a snapped crank I've instructed the mechanic to fit a solid as the DMF was banjaxed. The fucked DMF was causing plenty of vibes so I'll report back with my findings in a couple of hours and let you know if the solid causes more vibes..

[sutty2006]

Ive also heard on the Mechanics grape vine that a new DMF will last exactly 1.5 clutch kits. Thats to say, if you change the clutch, the DMF will fail anyway..... common in Fords and VW's apparently.

 

Who in the right mind would make something that lasts forever, when they can charge silly money every time it fails........

[twosmoke300]

On the transit Ford themselves list a heavy duty upgrade kit which is a solid conversion. That and the fact that some models have them as std means that the old - it will blow the engine / box argument is tosh.

I do work for a local van hire place and have fitted a few conversions . They say they last well and get loads of abuse.

Can't say I've noticed any difference in vibration etc but most had Fucked dmf's to start with.

 

However , dual mass flywheels are getting cheaper all the time.

 

You pays yer money etc

[spike60]

I know the OP asked about a Ford DMF but are they much worse than other makes? I did the clutches  in a BM 525 tds at 230k and an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD at 165k and both were original and went back again, they were fine. Certainly hear a lot about Ford, though a friend has a Pug 307 rattling like a good 'un at about 70k

[Richard]

I did just short of 130000 miles in my 07 Transit and the original DMF was still working when it left me, it didn't have an easy life either. I don't think any of the seven Transits that have done over 100000 miles at my work have ever needed a flywheel.