project 1980 Austin Princess

[vulgalour]

Agreed.  We'll have to see if Mike's new PDA** can take a video better than my potato-cam can achieve.

 

 

 

 

**new phones are PDAs, you can't tell me otherwise.

[Dippy]

If i remember right there are 3 bleed nipples on front calipers have you bled them all.

[captain_70s]

I was going to take this to the Rover R8 meet 

 

What a rebel...

[vulgalour]

Well.

 

20171129-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Yeah.  Let's go leak hunting then.  I did expect this a little bit because it's new stuff and you do expect things to need nipping up here and there.  For the rear to be that low something was very broken rather than just leaking a little.  First culprit was the schrader valve where it goes into the adaptor block.  It needed a quarter turn and that seems to have solved that one.  The green wire is temporary and to prevent the hose from getting trapped or stressed until the boot holes are drilled and a proper retaining bracket made, a job I was hoping to do at the unit this week.

20171129-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

There was a more serious leak somewhere though.  Time to check the next point which is the flexi-hose.  Dry where it goes into the adaptor, which is a good sign, unlike the underside of the car which is sprayed liberally with suspension fluid suggested it's coming out at a decent pressure somewhere.

20171129-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Ah.  That would be a failed flexi.  It looks like it's gone right at the crimp.  The union to the displacer isn't leaking and is as tight as it will go but the flexi-hose is soaked through from the crimp upwards.  Rather than failure of the new parts, this is failure of a 40 year old high-pressure hose.  It's annoying but an easy fix at least.  I knew the fittings are obsolete so getting new pipes made is going to be pricey because of that so I'm hoping to find a pair of good NOS ones, or at best some lightly used old ones.  We'll see what turns up.

20171129-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Front looked to be sitting just a tiny bit lower than it was so I inspected that too and gave the adaptor a quarter turn there.  I'm putting this down to us doing the job when it was very cold so things hadn't fully tightened and I'll keep an eye on it for now.  If it undoes itself or leaks I'll get some thread lock of some sort on there in addition.  The front hadn't dropped enough to warrant getting it pumped back up and hadn't sprayed fluid everywhere so I'm not worried about this right now.

20171129-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Hopefully replacing those rear flexis won't take me too long.  I'm irritated, but not angry, about this development.  I was sort of expecting the rear pipes to fail given their age, it's the way of these jobs that as you replace things you knock the problems further down the chain.

[purplebargeken]

Annoying issue but a logical conclusion. 

[PhilA]

You've done enough now on this that it's made troubleshooting easier, at least. You can see the fresh fluid and we're able to immediately pinpoint all the issues. Old fluid would have been impossible to see or diagnose.

 

 

Phil

[Tickman]

Pirtek might be a possibility for getting a pipe made if you went in with the old one.

I don't know if you have tried them before.

[vulgalour]

I have.  They did the repair section with the obsolete fittings and that was about £70 from memory.  Trying to sort out this suspension is beginning to get expensive now:

£70 flexible repair section

£25 hard pipe repair (that didn't work)

£60 individualiser adaptors

 

I'm expecting the custom rear flexi hoses to be £70 each since they're a similar size and fitting size/type to the ones for that first repair.  If it were all metric it wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive, but the obsolete sizes means the fittings are all special order.

[plasticvandan]

Look at the positive, the rest of the system MUST be working well as it has exposed a weakness in its high pressurey greeney system.

[vulgalour]

Oh absolutely!  I'm not doomy-gloomy about it for precisely that reason.

[vulgalour]

Going UP!  If you think the suspension updates are a rollercoaster, you should try living with them!  Hopefully this is the last problem for a while at least.  Because of the new suspension solution, when I lose a displacer I don't lose the whole side of the car which meant I could easily turn it around to make working on the driver's side pipe that much easier with no tyres scrubbing on arches and causing bodywork problems.  This was actually a really useful case of proving a theory with some practice.

 

First of all we disconnected the front driver's side displacer... or rather we tried to.  Numerous tools were tried, spanners and adjustable spanners were proving ineffective.  Hammers were defeated... we even got a bit desperate when trying to get anything that would fit in the engine bay this side to act as a suitable lever.

20171206-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The trouble on this side was that the clutch hydraulics, fuel lines, and bits of engine were all in the way of getting anything onto the displacer nut.  In the end we had to admit defeat and cut the pipe off.  Given the condition of the other pipe it's likely this one would have gone the same way anyway as we found the metal had gone very thin near the displacer fitting just like it had on the passenger side. That did at least allow us to get a socket over the displacer nut and a breaker bar on that and with a colossal bang the thing came undone.  This is the one corner I haven't had a displacer fail on so I suspect that's why this was so difficult to undo, it's probably not been touched for the whole life of the car.

 

With that off we could flush the displacer through with some purple meths before the next step.  It was a lot cleaner this side for some reason and didn't take long to sort out.  With the driver's side now ready for the adapter to be fitted we removed the adapter from the passenger side after flushing the Hydragas out.  I had considered reusing the fluid but it was a little opaque and I've got plenty of fresh so this was tipped away.  There was no sign of any large particles or the scum that came out the first time we did this so I'm hopeful that it's in reasonable health.

20171206-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Next up was the threadlock.  An order for some had been placed but Mike had some left in a bottle that needed using up so we used that first.

20171206-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

That seems to have done the trick with the small leak we had at the front the first time and the parts screwed together much smoother.  Both front displacers were then vacuumed and inflated with fresh fluid and the front end returned to full functionality, leaving the rear on stands.  There was just enough time to get to the pipe making shop and just enough light to see what we were doing so off with the awkward-to-access rear hose that had burst.

20171206-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then a quick tidy up and scrub of hands before scooting over to Pirtek.  I haven't had a reply at all from the tip off I was given so rather than waiting indefinitely I wanted to at least find out if getting a pair of custom pipes made was affordable.  A brief moment was taken to watch a neighbour's cat play a bit of footie.

20171206-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The new pipes are going to cost less than the front repair section.  Rather than using the custom blocks I got made on the back, we're using schrader fitting adaptors that are off the shelf which reduces the new pipe cost considerably.  The displacer end of the pipe is a standard size but with a cone-seat rather than a flat-seat so that was special order which is why the pipes aren't already in my pocket.  New pieces for the new pipes will arrived between noon Friday and noon Saturday so by Sunday the car should be fully suspended again and we can test the new suspension properly.  When that's done I can then report on what it's like to drive and what the costs are to get this done without the incorrect bits and mistakes I've made along the way.  Hopefully that will help other owners should they wish to go this route.

 

For now, the car is sat patiently waiting until the new high pressure pipes are made.  It should be easy to get this resolved.  As a side note, the car started first flick of the key after being stood outside for a while with the battery connected so I reckon we've solved the flat battery problem by tightening that alternator belt so that now it actually charges things.  I reckon we're doing okay.

20171206-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

[vulgalour]

The usual nervousness of seeing where the car is sat today after doing suspension yesterday was rewarded with it being in exactly the same place.  No sign of any leaks.  I do seem to have a very slightly squeaky displacer, the one I most recently replaced in fact.  It doesn't bother me, you won't be able to hear it in the car it's such a quiet squeak.  I got the remaining suspension pipe off and in fact I'm glad I did because it was thin in lots of places and just fractured in three places as I was trying to carefully remove it from the car.  I suspect that would have been my next suspension failure on the car so it looks like these adaptors were a well timed idea.  The driver's side pipe is a lot easier to remove too since the shape of it seems less keen to snag between the bulkhead and engine/gearbox at the front and there's no exhaust in the way at the back.  I have at least salvaged the rear hose from this side as that still looks in reasonable condition and may help someone else out should they need it.  I've also left all the brackets for the pipe on the car in part because it's work I don't want to do, and in part because if I do need to go back to the factory pipe set up I can much easier this way.

 

 The cars needed moving around a bit since space is limited and everything was just a  bit too far down the drive for Mike to park easily.  Happily, this is possible even without the rear displacers connected because of the new system and I had everything realigned very quickly.  The throttle was stuck too far open at first and that ended up being the  plastic bukhead grommet for the throttle cable having come unseated and somehow holding the cable in the wrong place.  Not sure how that happened, but pushing the grommet back into the bulkhead fixed it and all systems were normal again.

 

Now I just have to wait for these new pipes to arrive so we can pump up the back end.

 

20171207 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

[320touring]

So essentially, you are taking old obsolete parts and developing new solutions and replacements?

 

This R&D should be funded by the Government!

 

Good to see such progress:)

[oldcars]

Pea and ham soup, from a Princess? 

[vulgalour]

320: I'm finding answers to the questions nobody asked!  It should, in theory, improve the handling a crapload without putting extra stress on the displacers so I'm excited to find out how it behaves when everything's all set up.  I can also adjust the spring ratings on each corner with this system by altering the pressure of the fluid.  If/when I get the displacers regassed I can also adjust the nitrogen side, which I think translates as the shock/damper rating.  Fully adjustable independent Hydragas suspension.

[Asimo]

The more gas in the unit, the softer the spring rate, the gas pressure and the fluid pressure are the same when it is in use although they are different while you are filling the liquid side.

[vulgalour]

Ah, I'd got them the wrong way around in my understanding then.  Mind you, that does explain why people complain of a very hard crashy ride when there's no gas on the displacers, now I think about it properly.

[PhilA]

You've bettered the odds on the system failing now, both by making it independent and fixing the potentially weak parts so that's good.

 

It's also psychologically good, it's nice to know it's better than it was. I am now jealous of complicated suspension.

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

Today, the new pipes were ready and Mike kindly collected them in the morning before I was up (he works days, I work nights, sometimes this is useful) so they were ready to go when I rolled out of bed.  Very nice they are too, especially when seen alongside the  one they're replacing.

20171209-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Because the Princess suspension fittings are  older sizes that means special ones have to be ordered in as nothing is really standard.  This adds to the cost and timescale but it's still not terrible.  The new pipe is rate well above what's required because of what's available, there's a rather large jump between pressure tolerances  and the 400psi of the Princess system sits in an awkward spot for standard modern applications.

20171209-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20171209-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

If I'd known fitting a custom pipe at the back without an adapter was more cost effective I would have only got a pair of the displacer adapters so the front was catered to properly.  As a result, the actual cost of this conversion is only about £100 (two pipes and two adapter blocks) which is actually very cheap.  The new pipes sit naturally on the flange of the petrol tank which was safe enough for the test run but not the long term solution.  Servicing the rear displacers with the pipe sat there isn't ideal  so the boot floor modification is the next job to finish things off.  At the front I'm considering the suspension sorted.  You can just about make out the pipes in these pictures, it's difficult to photograph with the car all together.  The Hydragas fluid you see isn't a leak, that was just from opening the air bleed valve on the pump fitting when we pumped the car up.-

20171209-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20171209-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The car was sat up nicely with all four corners at 400psi.  No leans or leaks that have presented yet, if that's going to appear it will take a little time to do so.  The front was initially sitting a little high because the car has been jacked up and down quite a bit so everything was a bit out of sorts.  It settled down even once I'd driven around the block.

20171209-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

With that all as done as it could be it was time to go for a test drive.  It is VERY cold here today and the Princess isn't massively keen on sub-zero temperatures, understandably.  I'm about the same age and I'm not too fond of it either.  Typically, once I got in the car and tried to select reverse the clutch that was very low is now almost non-existant.  Rev-matching  is required to change gear, something I'm not very good at as I've not had a lot of practice.  I do have a clutch kit to go on so that'll be the next job, I've put off doing it in favour of other things for the five years I've owned the car!

 

Here's a terrible video that isn't edited.

 

What I can tell you is how it drives.  It feels more modern.  It's also weird.  I'm used to the Princess being very wallowy and having to predict sweeping into and out of bends.  It doesn't do this now, it feels more direct.  Not sports car direct, just more predictable and as I'd expect from something a few decades younger.  The ride itself isn't hard or jarring, nor is it so inclined to pitch and yaw which, if I'm honest, I do prefer.  I'd like to know how it performs on a long fast road since that's what it was always good at but even just a quick whizz around the block shows it's much easier to pilot in an urban setting.

 

I also really need to replace that top door hinge pin on the driver's side, another job I've been putting off forever even though I've got replacement pins.  With the clutch the way it is I can drive it, just, but I might do the clutch change at home rather than trying to go to the unit as then I don't have to faff about trying to change gears  without holding everyone else up. Overall, I'm happy, and the clutch failure is just normal old car nonsense so I'm not even mad about it.

 

 

 

[DodgeRover]

Things haven't frozen up slightly have they, seems odd the clutch was ok on the previous drive but not now?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

sounds like a clutch hydraulics problem does it not?

 

DOing the actual clutch is a right war on these, its 90% of actually taking the engine and box out.

[vulgalour]

The clutch has been on the way out since February 2012.  I'm pretty sure it's the actual clutch and not the hydraulics, I'm amazed I've nursed it as long as I have tbh.

[M'coli]

Bollox is right on this one - no clutch=no drive, no clutch hydralics=not able to engage gears. If it's the slave cylinder a quick pressure or gravity* bleed of the system should sort it for a wee while.

 

*Basically, let the fluid run out of the slave bleed screw by gravity only, or use your hand to seal a pipe around the reservoir filler and blow into it for a bit of pressure.

[vulgalour]

We shall bleed it tomorrow and see what happens.  I do still need to do the clutch though, I have been putting that off for much too long.

[SiC]

You and clutch hydros don't seem to ever get along...

[vulgalour]

All I do is show them love after a life of neglect and this is how they repay my kindness.  People are like this too.  That's why I hate people.

[vulgalour]

Right then, let's see if we can sort out this clutch.  Really easy job on the Princess this one.  Open this.

20171012-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Bleed here.

20171012-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Check this is an adequate level.

20171012-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Net result is I can now select gears but the clutch is definitely gubbed.  The biting point is difficult to find and the clutch is now rattling.  I suspect the fluid level dropped because the clutch has just worn out.  I did take the car on a test run on a faster local road and while it isn't uncomfortable by any stretch, it's not as wafty-lopey as it used to be with the new suspension set-up. The ride is better than pretty much any post 1990 car but not as good as a stock Princess.  I'm calling this a good compromise really because the improvement in handling and the lack of comedy nose-diving under heavy braking makes it feel a far safer and more predictable car in modern traffic.  The brakes, also, have improved considerably just with a few miles under the tyres so I'm no longer worried about those.

 

Test drive was  only a  few miles and it highlighted that the cone filter that was fitted out of necessity is not well suited to cold weather driving.  When you're accelerating above 40mph there's an occasional misfire/cough, as though the engine is running too lean.  Once you've got up to speed and have eased off the accelerator it stops doing it and I suspect once the engine is fully warmed up it won't do it at all.  Refitting the original filter house is very easy and I'll be doing that when I've dug out all the bits that are stuck in the back of the garage behind the dismantled shed Mike has nearly finished preparing for construction.

 

The next think to do on the Princess therefore is going to be replacing the clutch, refitting the original air filter and box, and making the small modification to the boot floor to secure the rear suspension hoses properly.  After that's done I can get on with the cosmetic welding work that's left which is mostly door-bottoms, lower rear quarters and the American lights for the rear end.  Oh, and I decided against changing the MGB sidelight/indicator pods on the front because having taken that terrible potatocam video recently it highlight just how right it looks lit up.

 

For now, the Princess will be on extremely light duties until the weather improves and the Rover will continue to be the workhorse.  Getting into the Rover after driving the Princess even a short distance makes the Rover feel really, really tiny and toy-like.

20171012-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

[vulgalour]

It's been a month since the last update and about the same since the car last moved, mainly because of spending a few weeks down south again for the festive period.  Now I'm back and have been able to get in the garage I can crack on with the next round of jobs on the Princess, none of which are serious.  Dug out the clutch kit, old air box, a few bits and bobs and one of the new oil seals I need.  The other oil seal is, I think, in the glovebox of the Princess and I didn't think to check until I got back home without it.

 

Even though it's been sat idle for a month, it started no bother and the suspension was where I'd left it, so that was reassuring.  Tootled over to the unit with Mike in tow so I could get the jobs I needed to do done later in the week.  The Princess really has to be in fine fettle this year because there's a house move happening and the areas I'm looking at moving to are between 120 and 350 miles away, which the Princess will ideally need to make without the assistance of a trailer.  Temperature was below freezing today but the Princess was fine on the amble to the unit and waited patiently outside while space was made inside.  Looked glamourous in a 1970s sort of way with the low winter sun and spray from the car wash... just a shame the photo doesn't capture it so well.

20180108-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

At the moment the Princess is keeping one of the older generation company in the form of a Wolseley Six with a flat battery.  I'm sure they'll get along famously.

20180108-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

More updates once work begins.  Fingers crossed it doesn't end up in the usual chaos other jobs on this car has, hopefully nobody has been in to bodge up these items!

[vulgalour]

Today was the day the clutch work could start on the Princess.  First job, move the Wolseley Six out of the way so the Princess can hog the lift... but first, family photo time!  Grandad fell asleep so the Princess needed to give him a short sharp shock.

20180110-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The Six has an earth issue in the driver's headlight area and a dead battery, you never really know how long it's going to hold charge as a result.  Mike's going to be taking that corner apart, cleaning it all and fitting a new battery, which should sort it all out.  Once everyone had stopped pulling silly faces, we had another go at that family photo.

20180110-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Good.  Right.  Let's get back inside and crack on with this clutch removal.  The manual is a bit strange on this one, the instructions are scattered over several sections rather than being clumped together *but* I'd had advice from folks that have done this job before  to help me along so the first thing to do was strip off everything connected to and/or obscuring the clutch housing (for want of a better description).

 

Starter motor removal is really easy, just four bolts.  I made sure to label the wires so I knew where they went back.

20180110-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Battery, battery tray/bracket, expansion bottle, coil, and clutch slave cylinder removed.  Earth strap, carb overflow pipe, and wiring loom disconnected.  Bags of access now.  No horns to remove as they're fitted to the other side since I'm not running the factory ones.

20180110-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

20180110-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

The inside of the clutch slave cylinder is a bit grotty so we'll be making sure that's cleaned up and okay once the clutch has been changed.   Contrary to how rusty it looks in the picture, it's actually more like a combination of old copper grease and regular grease with some black paint flakes mixed in for good measure.

20180110-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Next job was to remove the bolts  holding the clutch housing to the sandwich plate.  The engine mounts weren't unbolted at this stage.

20180110-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

With that done, the engine was supported with a brace and the engine mount bolts unfastened.  This, I'm told, is the way to do it without removing the entire engine and I should (because it's the 4 cylinder, not the 6 cylinder) be able to wiggle the clutch housing out to change the clutch components.

20180110-09 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Unfortunately, I ran out of time to get much further.  I've got to be pretty strict about my work:play ratio hours this month.  The thing Mike and I couldn't get to  free was the clutch housing itself. It's free enough that it's started to move but it won't yet come off.  It may also not be on its original clutch as there's signs someone previously has been in and nibbled away some of the edges of the join.

20180110-10 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

I'll be going in tomorrow to have another go at freeing off this clutch housing tomorrow with Mike.  Is there a particular knack to it?  Since everything is cast alloy I don't want to smack or lever any of it too brutally for fear of accidentally breaking chunks off.  Once the housing is off it looks like a fairly straightforward clutch swap and rebuild at least so here's hoping it's done by the end of the week.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I think you have to take the end cover off and remove some gubbins from inside before the big clutch housing can be removed