project 1980 Austin Princess

[vulgalour]

That's how we do it.  My bad for saying 'order a new bottle' when I actually mean a refill. I forget what the company is called, Angrydicky put us on to them. they're pretty affordable.  I think we last had a refill when the Rover had the sill done, and that was above a year ago of me welding rusty old nonsense so it's pretty good going.  Just annoying the gas ran out too late on a Friday to order more, will get a refill order in on Monday and should be up and running again Tuesday/Wednesday.  Refill should see me through what's left to do on both cars then.  I should check what's left on the welding wire reel too, it is an enormous one and seems never ending so I never check it, which is just asking for trouble really.  I'm going to miss this welder when I move, it has been a good friend.

[320touring]

Coolio! Just thought you'd be getting through similar volumes to me, and didn't want you to miss a trick:)

[DodgeRover]

SGS gases is cheaper for us than Hobbyweld. Wierdly their Argon/ CO mix seems to weld cleaner than BOC Argoshield.

[Steve79]

Just popped up on facebook, you has been spotted

[vulgalour]

\o/

[vulgalour]

Do you know what though, Mike pointed out it's a naughty driver there.  He's doing 42 in a 40 and using his phone to take a picture.

[PhilA]

I want to know what people's suggestions were.

 

It's a Lamborghini, mate

 

 

Phil

[Steve79]

Guesses were limited to these. I felt it best to satisfy their curiosity and have directed them to this thread.

[PhilA]

Impressive. I would have thought a wider variety of randomness.

[vulgalour]

That rear wheel does look a bit funny now it's been mentioned, but it's just the photograph.  In reality it does not look like a Minor that's about to experience trunnion failure.  Disappointed they managed to guess what it was, but also sort of pleased that people still know what a Princess is.

[vulgalour]

Dieseling.

 

Mike and I have been trying to get to the bottom of what might be causing this.  We've already gone through the electrical components, timing, carburettor settings, etc. and everything checks out as nice and healthy with no obvious cause for concern.  Fuel consumption is also about where it should be and there doesn't appear to be an issue with loss of compression or any issue with oil pressure.  Just some days it runs on quite badly.

 

I did wonder if it's my recent driving habits as I've been doing lots of very short 4-10 mile hops and rarely do a long run.  Today the dieseling was very bad, with the car running on for 10-15 seconds when I stopped for fuel.  I decided to take the car on a higher speed road and blow out the cobwebs and when I got home after that, it didn't run on at all.  This isn't the first time a good run has cured the issue but I'd like to know what's causing the issue in the first place and if there's something else I can do to stop it.

[Des]

I fear the only cure may be to travel back in time 20 years ago to buy petrol. I dicked around trying to effect a cure some years ago, gave up and fitted one of those Escort II Tecalmit air valve Ford bodges.

[vulgalour]

SOC said much the same.  I do value his opinion, just looking for more in case I missed something serious.  The really annoying thing is that back in 2012/3 it didn't do this so I imagine it must be something they did to the fuel between then and now, since I'm using ostensibly the same stuff.  Some folks have said use premium rather than regular but the Princess has always run like utter garbage on premium so I run it on regular and until very recently, never had a problem.

[DodgeRover]

How fast is it ticking over? We had a sigma that did the same until I slowed it down a tiny bit - only 50 rpm or so...

[vulgalour]

I don't know, because I can't remember and I have no rev gauge (as standard).  What I do know is it was correct when we went through everything, something like 800, I think? That might be wrong.  It's actually idling and running really nicely so I don't think it's rpm related.  It does seem more likely it's as Des and SOC have said which is modern fuel being rubbish.  Some folk have recommended sticking a lead additive in but I can't see how that would actually help.

[SiC]

Do you have anywhere near that still sells genuine 4-star? There is a place near me that still does, under the BWOC banner.

[Asimo]

 

I think every B series I've driven did this, even in the days of leaded petrol. It became quite automatic to cut the engine in gear and gently stall it!

 

Many carburettors have fuel cut-off valves so as to stop this problem, but not SUs.

 

I suppose you could try cooler plugs?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Going back 30 years when I set these up[ with a Crypton tuner, two engines were prone to running on and they were the Ford Crossflow and the O Series. Ford fitted an anti run on valve on the later mark 2 Escorts, a device that opens when the ignition is switched off to flood the carb and ports with air. Another thing was Forte decoking stuff, hold it at 1500 rpm and pour this stuff down the carb to burn off the coke deposits. A bloody good caning might achieve the same results. You may also want to retard the timing a couple of degrees and/or set the idle at 750 rpm.

[Zelandeth]

My second Metro did this the whole time I had it, despite having spent no shortage of time, effort and money stopping it.  No other running issues...just refused to shut off cleanly on a warm day.

 

I eventually just got used to being prepared to stall it if necessary...

[vulgalour]

To clear up confusion, this is an O series equipped car, not a B series.  Unleaded friendly from new, as far as I'm aware, so four star (even if I could find it) is unlikely to help.  Had to  do another short run as I'd forgotten something and when I got back, no running on.

 

That's the other issue, sometimes it runs on and sometimes it doesn't and I can't figure a reliable pattern out to that.  Hot starting is improved, at least, which I'm putting down to the aluminium heat shield I made which is an exact copy of the compressed fibre one I salvaged from another car.  The carburettor sits behind the engine on top of the exhaust manifold and there's no easy way to get the hot air out from that bit so it used to refuse to start on a hot day or after it got hot.  Of course, I may have swapped the hot start problem for the dieseling problem by fitting this heat shield, but I'm not sure how that would be.

 

I also noticed the idle screw isn't the tightest fit any more, neither is the mixture screw for that matter, so I suppose it's possible the adjustments are drifting just enough to be a problem but not enough to stop things working.

 

It could also very likely just be a case of TADTS and something I just have to put up with.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

  Unleaded friendly from new, as far as I'm aware

 

 

Not sure they were. Alloy head, but iron valve seats. The O Series was never certified for the USA so had no reason to run U/L. Later Montego/Rover ones might be.

[Des]

Well I tried timing, plugs, richening idle mix, cooler thermostat, as well as measures of desperation like dwell angle faffing, the 4 star additive that upped the octane, tappets adjusted on the loose side, running around the back and stuffing a carrot up the tailpipe but to no avail. It was a bloody auto so no halting the jaunty percussion solo with the clutch for me, was a Princess as well now I think of it, the old donkey RWD one. I always meant to try seeing if there was a difference between turning off the ignition immediately, and leaving to idle for a while first, but never remembered to.

You could always leave it as is, maybe try and exacerbate it, nice way to stick two fingers up at modern bollocks stop start technology.

[wuvvum]

Maybe it thinks it's a Maxi?

[Timewaster]

My dads Maxi was terrible for it.

 

You could pull up, get out, lock the car, walk round to the back door, go in the house, walk past the window and the Maxi was still sitting the chuffing away to itself.

[4wheeledstool]

My Cavalier did this on regular 95 RON pez - since I switched to using V power or Tesco's Momentum 99 it hasn't done it once. No ethanol in either apparently.

[plasticvandan]

Generally,alloy heads already have hardened valve seats.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

I suspect ethanol might be doing it. Higher octane rating and would perhaps evaporate into the top of the carb? Splitting the fuel?

[Squire_Dawson]

Running on if not ignition timing as you've checked it could be an air leak or carbon build up - possible with short runs but generally unheard of these days. Even very old engines don't need a decoke if treated well.

[vulgalour]

That little dashcam has proved useful with one thing and that's timing the run-on.  Yesterday, when it was really bad, it managed a spectacular 17 seconds.  Today the problem hasn't been apparent, but then I also did a longer drive on purpose, at higher speeds, and that seems to have stopped it running on.  So maybe it is a little coked up from all these short hops I've been doing.  I shall just have to drive it more and faster I guess.

[vulgalour]

Interesting development on this in that I might have found part of the problem.  After piddling about with stuff yesterday the car has been well behaved today until I got stuck in traffic on the way home and I noticed the idle was much too high.   Initially I was worried it was that headlight earth problem but the headlights weren't on and it wasn't presenting with a stiff throttle, it was like the throttle was sticking partially open at idle.  Popped the bonnet when I got a chance and sure enough, the throttle arm wasn't returning to rest properly.  A bit of a wiggle and normal function was resumed but looking at the arm and mechanisms everything is covered in grease and dust, probably from the bodywork and welding I've been doing lately, so I'll give that all a clean up and see if this problem goes away.

 

Also, no dieseling today to speak of until I got back after the sticky throttle incident so I suspect this is the actual cause, helped along by higher temperatures the past couple of days and rubbish modern fuel.