Shite in Miniature II

[flat4alfa]

On 28/01/2025 at 14:11, MiniMinorMk3 said:

As for the 1/36th scale, why did they choose it, no one else making diecasts did. It is the standard for slot cars.

Not wanting to pull up the point, but in case confusion by the reader:

Slot cars:  HO/1:64 -> 1:43 -> 1:32 -> 1:24.  Not 1:36

1:36 scale: Corgi, Matchbox, Guisval, Majorette.  These days Maisto, Kinsmart, Welly

[MiniMinorMk3]

1 hour ago, FakeConcern said:

When Golden Jacks came out, I thought they were great! 

Me to. The first one I had was the Hillman Hunter, followed by the Mini Marcos, Olds Toronado and the Chevy Camaro. My brother had the Rover and the Rolls-Royce.

[bunglebus]

B case Matchbox arrived in Entertainer while I was working a few shops down - anyone still looking for a Fiesta?

[bunglebus]

My local auction house (Chelmsford Auction Rooms) have some interesting bits tomorrow but I've got an appointment I can't miss

[Datsuncog]

11 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

I think the 1980s Corgis are rubbish

Sounds like fightin' talk...

[Split_Pin]

Lots of 1/36 Corgis had a metal base, what I don't understand is why some did and others did not. 

From memory, all but a small batch of MK3 Escorts were all metal.

Jaguar XJS, Renault 11, Opel Senator, Rover Sterling, Honda Prelude, Triumph Acclaim, to name a few.

They definitely weren't rubbish, they just won't suit those who prefer older, pre 1975 1/43 scale products. I'm not sure why they changed the scale but I do vaguely recall an answer a few years ago on here.

Cars like the Renault 11 and later Volvo 740 had lovely detail inside and out and had great play value. I'll admit I was never a fan of the MK3 Transit with brittle flat plastic base but the later recovery vehicle incarnation was a belter.

Compare an 80s Corgi to a similarly scaled Guisval (who did seem to have a small 1/36 range at the same time) and you will instantly see how the Corgi was far superior in terms of accuracy, quality and paint.

 

[sierraman]

Corgi Juniors were a bit lame in the end though. Then again they were priced under Matchbox so I suppose it’s horses for courses. The price point on the smaller stuff went something like this Novacar etc, Corgi Juniors, Majorette, Hot Wheels, Matchbox, Tomica then Siku. 
 

Majorette used to mostly be sold in Morrisons from what I remember? 

[Split_Pin]

I only ever remember seeing Majorette in small shops in holiday towns. Morrisons was still Safeway round my way up until around 25 years ago and they, together with WmLow, who we used when we moved East, were strictly Corgi Juniors.

[andrew e]

Corgi XJS got a plastic base I think at the end? I’ve had a few 1/36 deliveries whilst on holiday and a lovey beige 190 Taxi has appeared, so I will get the camera out at some point. I’m also convinced myself I have that green Castrol metro - but I can’t find it!

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, andrew e said:

Corgi XJS got a plastic base I think at the end? I’ve had a few 1/36 deliveries whilst on holiday and a lovey beige 190 Taxi has appeared, so I will get the camera out at some point. I’m also convinced myself I have that green Castrol metro - but I can’t find it!

I thought I didn’t have one until I checked in the loft, I’m probably duplicating what I’ve already bought half the time! 

[cms206]

2 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

I only ever remember seeing Majorette in small shops in holiday towns. Morrisons was still Safeway round my way up until around 25 years ago and they, together with WmLow, who we used when we moved East, were strictly Corgi Juniors.

Majorette for some reason I only ever associate with chemists - both of my local ones as a child sold a full range for some reason!

 

On the subject of Morrisons, Bburago is back again.

[Split_Pin]

I guess the Saab 93 is long out of production, they go for £££s on ebay for some reason.

[sierraman]

I could never warm to the Bburago 1/43 range, I’ve got a couple of absolute minters but they really don’t do much for me at all apart from the Alfa 33 or the 5 series. 

[danthecapriman]

17 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I could never warm to the Bburago 1/43 range, I’ve got a couple of absolute minters but they really don’t do much for me at all apart from the Alfa 33 or the 5 series. 

Same here. They always just seemed cheap and a bit tacky to me.

[RoadworkUK]

Agreed re. Bburago 1/43s. No real advantage over 1:64 Matchbox when they came to detail, and felt less satisfyingly weighty in your hand.

I would have loved Bburago 1/43s to have been-scaled down versions of their 1/18s, with bespoke wheels etc, albeit perhaps with fewer opening features. Would have been a unique proposition at the time.

[ETCHY]

1 hour ago, cms206 said:

Majorette for some reason I only ever associate with chemists - both of my local ones as a child sold a full range for some reason!

 

On the subject of Morrisons, Bburago is back again.

Oh wow yeah now I recall the Chemist's selling Majorettes probably why I didn't have many as Newsagents on the high street sold Matchbox & had the funky display case in window.

Bloke who owned Newsagents used to sit with you on floor & test the cars ran OK by wheeling them across the floor !

[MiniMinorMk3]

17 hours ago, bunglebus said:

My local auction house (Chelmsford Auction Rooms) have some interesting bits tomorrow but I've got an appointment I can't miss

I bet those go for peanuts as they don't do internet bidding. I wish I had an auction house local to me that was old school like that.

[MiniMinorMk3]

Here's some King Size and Super Kings from last weeks auction.

Nice Dodge horsey truck that's missing the big decal from the side.

Still has both ramps and all of its tyres.

Dodge Tractor on base of truck...

Articulated Horse Van on trailer.

A couple of metallic red trucks, Ford LTS Tractor on left and Scammell Tipper on right.

K-6 Motorcycle Transporter.

It's missing the rear canopy and I have stuck an earlier Honda in the back. It should have the later one that looks like a CB750.

The base has K-6/11 as this casting was also used for the K-11 Pick-Up Truck (AA Break Down) model.

K-12 Hercules Mobile Crane.

Has extending jib...

and extending footings. Lots of play action with this one.

K-113, as seen on base, is the Military version.

Last we have an Aldi Quattro. Scale is about 1/34.

Not a bad effort shape wise.

Engine detail is good...

but the budget must has been used up by the time they did the plank of a dash.

 

[Split_Pin]

55 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

cheap and a bit tacky to me.

That's why I love them. The cruder the better. True Shite in Miniature.

The Bburago 1/24s were great. The bodyshell was freakishly strong but everything that was attached to it just fell to bits 😂

I hate to say it as well but if you look on ebay, really nice or MIB early 1/24 Bburagos, especially the 'Hobbies And Toys' branded boxes, are worth a lot more than most equivalent condition cars from the 1960s (unless it's a really rare one) It's because kids either had them when they were current and they fell to bits or mum said too dear (me for both categories!)

[sierraman]

3 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

That's why I love them. The cruder the better. True Shite in Miniature.

The Bburago 1/24s were great. The bodyshell was freakishly strong but everything that was attached to it just fell to bits 😂

I hate to say it as well but if you look on ebay, really nice or MIB early 1/24 Bburagos, especially the 'Hobbies And Toys' branded boxes, are worth a lot more than most equivalent condition cars from the 1960s (unless it's a really rare one) It's because kids either had them when they were current and they fell to bits or mum said too dear (me for both categories!)

The seventies ones definitely were unbelievably fragile, they’d have not stood up to even the most cursory of play. 🤣

[Datsuncog]

On 29/01/2025 at 06:57, Split_Pin said:

I'm not sure why they changed the scale but I do vaguely recall an answer a few years ago on here.

My understanding is that Corgi's changeover to 1/36 scale was linked to their decision to go all-in with a range of models featuring Formula One racing cars - as part of their commitment to faithfully represent many of the teams and drivers on the grid for the 1973/74 season in miniature, the designers found they couldn't make the increasing number of sponsorship decals legible at the usual 1/43 size.

Since negotiations to make and sell the replicas had been surprisingly fraught for Corgi's design team - they were used to gentlemen's agreements and generous cooperation with vehicle manufacturers on all their products, but F1 teams were now starting to make rumblings about licencing payments and royalties - making sure that the intricate sponsors' liveries were reproduced accurately was key to allowing the range to go ahead.

Larger models gave a greater surface area for decals, while market research also indicated that the larger scaled models were perceived to offer better value for money than their traditional 1/43-ish models. It didn't cost any more on the design side, and with Corgi always keen to be seen as innovators, larger models that made domestic and international rivals like Dinky and Solido appear small and less appealing could only be a good thing.

There was previous form for this sort of rescaling too - during the 1960s, new Matchbox mainline offerings had grown upwards in size, causing Corgi to retool a number of their existing Husky lines in the late '60s to be larger, and so retain customer appeal. It's possible that with their core range, Corgi decided to jump first - and indeed, most of the other competing manufacturers did follow, to stay in the game.

As a result, the Ferrari Daytona, introduced the same year in two different racing colours, was tooled in 1/36, and other new passenger car releases such as the Jaguar XJC12, Mercedes 220D and Citroen Dyane followed suit.

Of course, this led to the slightly uncomfortable fact that many older, smaller (but still popular!) castings like the Range Rover Vigilant and Land Rover 109 sat alongside newer, larger castings for quite some years, hobbling any sense of realism that their young customers might have been trying to achieve through their play.

Whatever the arguments for and against might have been (and I'd love to read the boardroom meeting minutes for that period), 1/36 had arrived and it was there to stay for the rest of Mettoy's existence. It resulted in some unusual choices such as the more adult-oriented 'Cars Of The 1950s' range also being modelled in 1/36 - and it's perhaps telling that one of the first things the post-bankruptcy management team did in 1985 was reintroduce the nostalgic Corgi Classics range in the more internationally accepted 1/43 scale, using some of the original 1960s tooling of models like the 1911 Renault.

I still can't find any information on why 1/36 specifically was chosen as the scale for the new range, as there were no comparable toys elsewhere using that scale - but I'd hazard a guess that since Corgi were designing a range of detailed 1/18 scale F1 cars with features such as removable wheels at the same time, it was a relatively simple process to make the more affordable range, featuring some of the same vehicles, at exactly half that size.

I'd also suggest that the Energy Crisis of 1973 may have played a part in changes such as the introduction of plastic bases, with factories being forced into three-day-weeks to deal with power shortages - I understand it costs less to run a plastic injection moulding machine than a diecasting machine, as the temperatures required to melt the media are lower, and plastic bases don't require other energy-intensive processes like tumbling, painting and oven-drying in the way their metal counterparts do.

Not all new Corgi releases from the mid-70s on had plastic bases, but faced with rising costs and a shrinking market, it seems like a reasonable compromise to have made at the time.  Corgi always tried to keep a wide range of price points for their core range - while Juniors were built to sell at a set price, those of larger models varied considerably, but were positioned to mean that nearly any child could save enough to buy themselves something from the range - the Dyane cost much less than the Rolls Royce Corniche, and the Polo was rather cheaper than the Rover 3500 SD1.

I must have a look at some of the old pricelists and see how different they were; doubtless Van Cleemput and his team would have sooner produced nothing but highly detailed models packed full of features as they'd done before, but the state of the parent company finances and changes to the toy market meant that accountants and middle-managers had much more say in what made it onto the shelves, and what price point they were designed for.

I can agree that the Corgi output of the 1970s and 80s was objectively inferior to those innovative and exquisitely designed models of the 1960s - but the like of the Mazda Pickup, Renault 5 Turbo and Escort van were the ones I remember being transfixed by on toyshop shelves at the time - so I guess I'm always going to have a soft spot for them...

 

[danthecapriman]

I think one of my biggest problems with the Corgi 1:36 range was, as @Datsuncog alluded to with the Land Rover bit. They weren’t in scale with much else. So if you wanted to use other vehicles from whoever else as well as Corgi’s you were a bit limited. Although I suspect that might have been part of the reasoning behind choosing 1:36? To make it so you had to get Corgi because it won’t fit with much else? Cynic much!?

Is 1:36 scale used at all/very much nowadays? I can’t say I’ve noticed a huge amount.

[quicksilver]

22 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

Not wanting to pull up the point, but in case confusion by the reader:

Slot cars:  HO/1:64 -> 1:43 -> 1:32 -> 1:24.  Not 1:36

1:36 scale: Corgi, Matchbox, Majorette.  These days Maisto, Kinsmart, Welly

And while we're being pedantic about scales, HO is 1:87 and far smaller than 1:64. A true HO scale slot car would be quite an engineering challenge.

[Split_Pin]

And OO is 1:76.

The most popular scale today is almost certainly 1/43. 

1/18 is still popular with the resin model manufacturers such as BoS.

1/24 seems to be more common for toy cars but Bburago, Whitebox  and Hachette also use it.

1/76 seems to be universally accepted for buses, probably nowadays more to do with space than being common to model railways. The Oxford range of cars is also a great space-efficient way to own models of cars even if you're not into railways.

1:87 seems to be a Eurpoean scale, especially for trucks. I'm not sure if Wiking, Herpa and Praline even make cars in this size any more but they were common in the 1970s - 1990s, probably as a 'close enough' for model railways. Placed next to a 1/76 Oxford car, they look tiny! I imagine the latter has eclipsed them as they are more detailed although much clunkier looking.

Also, does anyone remember 'Fresh Cherries' by Motormax? Some 100% US Domestic Prime Chod there. Superb wee models, very detailed and better than an Oxford way before they came on the market. I have an '84 Ford Tempo and US Escort.

[MiniMinorMk3]

1/24 and 1/25 was the go to scale for most of the American plastic kit makers. The Japanese manufacturers also used it.

1/50 has been used by various for commercial vehicles.

 

Recently there has been a bit of 1/64 action in the collectors market. 

Spark have introduced their Sparky range. These are all competition models at this time.

Sparkmodel

TSM have their Mini GT range which is extensive.

MINIGT.com – Welcome to the World of 1:64!

A new manufacturer is Paragon with their PARA64 range that has just started.

Home page – paragonmodelstore

BBR, the long established resin model maker from Italy (now mostly made in China) have also started doing 1/64

Most are priced in the £20-£30 range, so are squarely aimed at collectors with money to burn.

All these can be found at Grand Prix Models

Product Search

[bunglebus]

The postie has been and gone, leaving me with some diecast trinkets. Majorette XR3 seems to be one of their harder to find efforts

Junk in the trunk

It came with this Deppaneuse

And a rather shonky El Camino

This Splittin' Image was the single car I managed to win from a seller with a large number of modern re-released Hot Wheels redlines and blackwalls. I'm still a bit sore I got outbid on the red Cobra which was to replace my childhood one

Another parcel contained an OK Husky Beetle 

And a really lovely Matchbox one

ERTL are a bit of an oddity from a UK perspective, all I ever see is the TV tie in stuff and the odd bit of farm machinery. Whether this Ford van was made as a character car of some sort originally I don't know, but it survived getting stood on this afternoon as it was on the mat in a jiffy bag

Last of the loose stuff, Gama Mini BMW 7 series is very nicely done and doesn't appear to have any missing or broken bits

[MiniMinorMk3]

Here's the last couple from my auction stuff from last week. I'm not posting the rest up as it is mainly cartoon related stuff or far too gone to be of much interest.

Just a couple of Corgis

Nice old Twhaites Dumper. Pity the inside of the bucket is all scratched up...

and the rear wheels are slightly bent.

WhizzWheels Pony Club Land Rover.

Missing canopy and spare wheel, but unusually has decals on body.

Looks a bit small compared to that Rover Sterling, or did Corgi make thee Sterling too big?

Time to fill up and pick up those ponies.

 

 

[bunglebus]

That Gama arrived with this monster of a Schabak Scorpio 

Detail is actually pretty good, separate lenses and door handles etc, textured carpets and the rest. It's just a shame the tampos are very poorly done and let it down a bit

I had a quick look in Smyths today, just as their delivery arrived - nothing interesting. Entertainer were having a stock take so they didn't have anything either. I popped into Poundland who had a slightly older mix on the pegs, and the ones that usually disappear first were still present (Cybertruck, Goldbug etc). I had a rummage and found this!

[sierraman]

2.8 Ghia but it’s got a Pinto in it by looks of things? 

[FakeConcern]

43 minutes ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

Here's the last couple from my auction stuff from last week. I'm not posting the rest up as it is mainly cartoon related stuff or far too gone to be of much interest.

Just a couple of Corgis

Nice old Twhaites Dumper. Pity the inside of the bucket is all scratched up...

and the rear wheels are slightly bent.

WhizzWheels Pony Club Land Rover.

Missing canopy and spare wheel, but unusually has decals on body.

Looks a bit small compared to that Rover Sterling, or did Corgi make thee Sterling too big?

Time to fill up and pick up those ponies.

 

 

I suppose the Stirling is in 1/36, but the Land Rover is the old 1/48 casting as I think the 1/36 one had the later wheels with a separate centre.

 

I believe Van Cleemput said something along the lines of that 1/36 gave the impression of better value at little to no extra cost in design and manufacture much as outlined by @Datsuncog earlier. Obviously I can't find this in the book at the moment, but if I come across it I'll quote it.