Bus Shite

[SunnySouth]

25 minutes ago, lisbon_road said:

A busy week.  Wednesday, I went to BusWorld, the exhibition in Brussels.  New buses, parts, systems, all of that.

Now, roughly 50% Chinese manufacturers, some with really huge stands with endless buses and coaches.  Mostly electric - even long distance coaches.

The Chinese manufacturers vary between really scarily competent (Yutong and BYD) and some who look a good deal more basic.  European companies are there, of course, though ADL and Wright were not present.  Just a few British companies - Graysons being perhaps the biggest.

Anyway, you want some pictures.  This 1966 Merc Minibus was totally fab and a bit shite:

In contrast, this BYD long distance coach is amazing.  Their batteries are remarkably compact.

MG now do buses too.  Who in Cowley would have predicted?

There were fuel cell buses too.  A German man on a stand took a long time to explain to me how the work and it really sounds as if the fuel cell technology is well established - the mechanism by which they get the hydrogen sounds very complex and frankly all a bit unlikely.  Well here's a Citaro  fuel cell bus.  Nice green and lighting (!):

All in all an experience.  Got there by Eurostar - recommended.  And Brussels public transport - a bit less so.

What a day out!

British - and, potentially, European I should think - bus manufacture is dead in the water, the Chinese strategy of flooding the market with unfeasibly cheap products means that there is basically nowhere to go. The inroads made into British markets in a very, very short timeframe are pretty sobering, there are Yutong coaches appearing all over the shop. And all manner of obscure Chinese-made cars are springing up. British buyers of course lapping it up because it’s cheap. ADL has zero chance of ever relaunching coaches, under the Plaxton name or any other, and I don’t much fancy the long term prospects of the bus division either. Evolution of course, but desperately sad.

[lisbon_road]

10 hours ago, vtec-e said:

Out of interest what was the long range on the BYD bus ?

It says 655 km on the side.  That's a long way.  I know these figures are always optimistic, but the battery thermal management will be pretty good so that cold weather at least is less of an issue than for some cars anyway.  Yutong were giving one year warranty and guaranteeing 15 years provision of parts.  That might need some definition though, we've all heard the stories about parts being on back order and sent by ship, so exactly what that means I don't know.  

[lisbon_road]

10 hours ago, SunnySouth said:

British - and, potentially, European I should think - bus manufacture is dead in the water, the Chinese strategy of flooding the market with unfeasibly cheap products means that there is basically nowhere to go. The inroads made into British markets in a very, very short timeframe are pretty sobering, there are Yutong coaches appearing all over the shop. And all manner of obscure Chinese-made cars are springing up. British buyers of course lapping it up because it’s cheap. ADL has zero chance of ever relaunching coaches, under the Plaxton name or any other, and I don’t much fancy the long term prospects of the bus division either. Evolution of course, but desperately sad.

They are trying hard especially at Wright bus with new products and innovation.  The lack of tariffs must be making it very very difficult in the UK though - I'm not disagreeing with you here, equally sad though.

[artdjones]

10 hours ago, SunnySouth said:

British - and, potentially, European I should think - bus manufacture is dead in the water, the Chinese strategy of flooding the market with unfeasibly cheap products means that there is basically nowhere to go. The inroads made into British markets in a very, very short timeframe are pretty sobering, there are Yutong coaches appearing all over the shop. And all manner of obscure Chinese-made cars are springing up. British buyers of course lapping it up because it’s cheap. ADL has zero chance of ever relaunching coaches, under the Plaxton name or any other, and I don’t much fancy the long term prospects of the bus division either. Evolution of course, but desperately sad.

It's not difficult to see what they are doing. Provide unfeasibly cheap products until the European manufacturers are all defunct. After that, prices will rocket.

[Yoss]

Central and East Europe still seem to be doing OK. Most new buses over there seem to be from Solaris, SOR or Škoda. Solaris are Polish but use Škoda running gear. SOR are another Czech company who I assume use there own running gear, I can find no mention of Škoda in their literature. 

Hungary always used to have Ikarus but now have a company called Credobus supplying most new buses there. I thought Ikarus went bust but they seem to have just introduced a new electric bus. I can't remember seeing any Chinese buses in my travels but maybe I just haven't noticed. 

These are from some of my travels. 

The ridiculous double bendy trolleybuses from Solaris/Škoda. I've only seen them on one route from the airport to the nearest Metro station which is mostly wide and straight although there's a few roundabouts around the airport. 

They look even more crazy inside, they just go on forever. 

 

A more normal Solaris in České Budějovice. 

 

And an SOR trolleybus. 

 

These two are SOR electric buses in Brasov and Ploiesti in Romania. 

 

And a Solaris/Škoda trolley/battery bus in Budapest. I only realised this when I got off to take some pictures and realised there were no wires! 

Anyway, I get the impression they are all doing quite well for themselves as they seem to provide the majority of vehicles over there. 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

5 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Central and East Europe still seem to be doing OK. Most new buses over there seem to be from Solaris, SOR or Škoda. Solaris are Polish but use Škoda running gear. SOR are another Czech company who I assume use there own running gear, I can find no mention of Škoda in their literature. 

Hungary always used to have Ikarus but now have a company called Credobus supplying most new buses there. I thought Ikarus went bust but they seem to have just introduced a new electric bus. I can't remember seeing any Chinese buses in my travels but maybe I just haven't noticed. 

These are from some of my travels. 

The ridiculous double bendy trolleybuses from Solaris/Škoda. I've only seen them on one route from the airport to the nearest Metro station which is mostly wide and straight although there's a few roundabouts around the airport. 

They look even more crazy inside, they just go on forever. 

 

A more normal Solaris in České Budějovice. 

 

And an SOR trolleybus. 

 

These two are SOR electric buses in Brasov and Ploiesti in Romania. 

 

And a Solaris/Škoda trolley/battery bus in Budapest. I only realised this when I got off to take some pictures and realised there were no wires! 

Anyway, I get the impression they are all doing quite for themselves as they seem to provide the majority of vehicles over there. 

It helps that Solaris is owned by CAF, a Spanish railway rolling stock manufacturer.

I guess development of RHD stuff simply isn't worth the cost to many European manufacturers.

[lisbon_road]

2 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Central and East Europe still seem to be doing OK. Most new buses over there seem to be from Solaris, SOR or Škoda. Solaris are Polish but use Škoda running gear. SOR are another Czech company who I assume use there own running gear, I can find no mention of Škoda in their literature. 

Hungary always used to have Ikarus but now have a company called Credobus supplying most new buses there. I thought Ikarus went bust but they seem to have just introduced a new electric bus. I can't remember seeing any Chinese buses in my travels but maybe I just haven't noticed. 

Anyway, I get the impression they are all doing quite for themselves as they seem to provide the majority of vehicles over there. 

I don't think I saw a single Trolleybus at BusWorld.  Personally, and I know you agree @Yoss, I reckon Trolleys are the ultimate bus as they can be electric without batteries.  I fear cheap Chinese battery buses are seen as a quicker solution.  Good to see your pictures of Eastern European buses, where they will also have tariffs on Chinese as in the EU.

Incidentally, I have lived in China and I have loads of Chinese friends - I just don't want to see our industry annihilated.

[Yoss]

On 10/10/2025 at 20:00, Leyland Worldmaster said:

It helps that Solaris is owned by CAF, a Spanish railway rolling stock manufacturer.

 

Thank you, I did not know that. 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

7 hours ago, Yoss said:

Thank you, I did not know that. 

https://www.solarisbus.com/en/press/solaris-with-a-new-owner-spanish-caf-company-983

No worries! 😎

[Yoss]

So as we were discussing a couple of weeks ago I have found my pictures from the last day of the Atlanteans in Southampton. 

First of all, these were all on display in Mayflower Park. There were all sorts here, not just Atlanteans. 

 

The former 139 and later 900 in the Southampton fleet appears to have moved just down the coast. I don't think I've seen it since (this was February 2005)

Same with this one, ex 137

 

 

The one actual sevice bus on the day was 270.

Attracting more attention than it had ever done in its life. 

And here are 252 and 270 at the Townhill Park terminus at different times of the day. 

 

And this was the very end at Lordshill (bar the garage run, which we all stayed on for), with quite a convoy in tow. This convoy ran all the way from the city centre and was quite a sight, and sound of course. 

But it was very much a sense of deja vu to me as this was the last Routemaster just over 16 years earlier in exactly the same spot. We know how to do a farewell in Southampton. 

 

But back to the Atlanteans. I particularly like this one. 

 

And back at the garage. 

 

 

[Yoss]

If I can just go back to this picture, can anybody tell me what that bus in front of the Atlantean is? Obviously in barbie livery, the fact that that window goes right to the back makes me think Volvo Ailsa but I don't remember us ever having any. Obviously once First took over it was much easier to swap buses between fleets and I'm sure there is stuff I've forgotten about but I'd have thought I'd have remembered those. 

[busmansholiday]

On 05/10/2025 at 21:46, Cavcraft said:

Not my picture, but from today in Hooton, Cheshire

Never a Barnsley scrap man around when you need one!!

[busmansholiday]

11 minutes ago, 83C said:

@Yoss maybe one of these?

Dennis Arrow/ELC Pyoneer.

Almost certainly one of those that were new to Capital Citybus who became First Citybus. The Arrows were apparently withdrawn and sent to First Somerset and Avon and First Hampshire before Manchester so a good spot by @83C.

[Yoss]

17 minutes ago, 83C said:

@Yoss maybe one of these?

Dennis Arrow/ELC Pyoneer.

Edit: here’s a more local example:

 

Ah yes, I remember them now. Thanks. 

[rml2345]

On 05/10/2025 at 06:56, 320touring said:

 

I'll rely on @rml2345 to provide the info on this fine specimen 😁

Bit late on this but it's a Bedford SB with coachwork by New Zealand Motor Bodies, very likely a petrol powered SB3 new to the New Zealand Railways Road Services who bought about 1260 SBs between 1952 and 1981*, all bar 39 being originally equipped with Bedford's six pot petrol. 

*Bedford stopped calling it an SB in 1968 but the name persisted for people who aren't computers. 

[lisbon_road]

This could be the ultimate petrol engined bus.  Jersey Leyland Titan TD1 petrol.  

You can see the magneto, carburetor and what looks like an overhead valve engine.  Must be thirsty.  I like the period black headlights.  

At the Isle of Wight bus museum running day, Wightrider, yesterday.  Another really well run event.  

[Leyland Worldmaster]

3 hours ago, lisbon_road said:

This could be the ultimate petrol engined bus.  Jersey Leyland Titan TD1 petrol.  

You can see the magneto, carburetor and what looks like an overhead valve engine.  Must be thirsty.  I like the period black headlights.  

At the Isle of Wight bus museum running day, Wightrider, yesterday.  Another really well run event.  

I saw that in an unrestored state in Detling some years back. A thing of beauty. 

Titan production carried on a lot fucking longer than most people might believe.

From 1968 it was produced as Ashok Leyland Titan. And that has only relatively recently come out of production! 

[martc]

Sheffield, sometime in the '60's. I'm sure the body builder could have done a little better with the design of the grille, in fact the whole front end.

Another Sheffield bus, this one is a Daimler CVG6-30. The front end treatment here is certainly better thought through, although I prefer the blue and cream livery.

Another Daimler CVG6 bus, this one was supplied to Salford Corporation.

[martc]

Talking of Atlanteans, here's one in Stockholm in the late '60's ... the front looks a little like the pranged Bussing that I posted a few days ago.

[martc]

An 'NS' model bus on the skid patch at the London Transport Training school, Chiswick, 1934.

[martc]

When you set up a bus factory you also need a background of component suppliers, for example the Gödöllő Metal Goods Factory, the manufacturer of the badges for Ikarus buses, amongst others.

1971

Isn't this just wonderful? The woman doesn't seem too impressed. We're at Engels Square in Budapest; I've been there although by metro rather than bus.

[martc]

Commercial Street, Leeds in 1971. As part of the 'Leeds : Motorway City of the Seventies' grand scheme, cars were removed from a big chunk of the retail centre. To compensate for this Leeds City Transport introduced the 401 Shoppers Bus connecting the bus and rail stations. A flat fare of 2p , no change given, was introduced.

[mk2_craig]

32 minutes ago, martc said:

401 Shoppers Bus

Those converted Merc vans were a much more prominent part of UK public transport in the mid 1980s than the early 1970s, so it seems strange to be looking at a photo of one from nearly 55 years ago. 

[artdjones]

1 hour ago, martc said:

 

Sheffield, sometime in the '60's. I'm sure the body builder could have done a little better with the design of the grille, in fact the whole front end

That was the first of the enclosed fronts Leyland offered on the PD2&3 for operators who wanted a more modern look. It was a variation on the fronts Midland Red used on their in-house BMMO buses. They needed more double deckers than their own factory could supply, so ordered a large batch of PD2s which had to have a similar tin front to the BMMOs. Soon afterwards, Leylands began offering the front as a normal option for anyone that wanted it.

Later, they slapped on a fibreglass front that was a bit more modern.

St Helens Corporation were first to have it, so it's generally known as the St. Helens front.

You could still order an exposed radiator if you wanted, in fact this bus, the very last PD3, built for Ramsbottom UDC, is on an H plate.

[Inspector Morose]

5 hours ago, lisbon_road said:

This could be the ultimate petrol engined bus.  Jersey Leyland Titan TD1 petrol.  

 

Originally OV 1175 as Leyland's first TROLLEYBUS (GEC electrical equipment) in 1929. Demonstrated to Chesterfield and Birmingham before heading back to Leyland to be converted to a motorbus and sold to Jersey in 1934 as it's J1199.

Withdrawn and rescued for the science museum and stored at the reserve collection in Clapham, it was reregistered for use in Halifax (and painted into Halifax livery) as MJX222J before being re re re restored to its JMT condition as SV 6107.

 

[Inspector Morose]

2 hours ago, martc said:

Talking of Atlanteans, here's one in Stockholm in the late '60's ... the front looks a little like the pranged Bussing that I posted a few days ago.

36 foot long too. Voith gearboxes in those, with the engine and gearbox mounted the opposite way around to normal.

They were quite the things when built, very bespoke. Shame they were a bit crap in service.

[SunnySouth]

23 hours ago, Yoss said:

The former 139 and later 900 in the Southampton fleet appears to have moved just down the coast. I don't think I've seen it since (this was February 2005)

The Open Top Bus Site ( “opentopbus.net” ) says:

“Previous Registration Numbers

WOW 531J was previously HNP 898J, WOW 529J”

So, allegedly, it now masquerades as a former classmate? Which is, well, odd… Assuming of course that there was a 531J back in the day? 

Link to the page:

https://www.opentopbus.net/w-England---Dorset.pdf

[busmansholiday]

5 hours ago, martc said:

 

Another Sheffield bus, this one is a Daimler CVG6-30. The front end treatment here is certainly better thought through, although I prefer the blue and cream livery.

I bet the inhabitants or Rotherham rather preferred their buses in blue and cream rather than the crappy brown and cream PTE livery as well.

[quicksilver]

17 hours ago, martc said:

Commercial Street, Leeds in 1971. As part of the 'Leeds : Motorway City of the Seventies' grand scheme, cars were removed from a big chunk of the retail centre. To compensate for this Leeds City Transport introduced the 401 Shoppers Bus connecting the bus and rail stations. A flat fare of 2p , no change given, was introduced.

These must have been among the first Merc minibuses in the UK and I bet it was controversial that a corporation fleet bought foreign-made vehicles. How times have changed.

[martc]

20 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

These must have been among the first Merc minibuses in the UK and I bet it was controversial that a corporation fleet bought foreign-made vehicles. How times have changed.

I wonder if it's a Mercedes chassis but with a UK built body? The compromise that still prevails today.