Bus Shite

[Inspector Morose]

A bit of modern bus shite this evening. This is an Optare MetroDecker that is now owned by Diamond Bus in the West Midlands. Shite. you say? Oh yes. Sit down while I tell you a tale...

 

It sort of starts with another bodybuilder, East Lancs of Blackburn. They had been selling their double-deck body, the Olympus reasonably well. Unfortunately, in 2007, East Lancs ran out of money and called in the receivers. They were rescued by the Darwen Group, a company that magically appeared for the purpose of saving East Lancs, the day after it fell into receivership. Interesting timing.

Now the Darwen group, owned by Local entrepreneur Roy Stanley decided to purchase Leyland Product Developments, a splinter of the once monolithic Leyland empire, their skunkworks division but with more brown coats and ties. But Roy didn't stop there. In 2008 he set up another company (Jamesstan Investments) to purchase another struggling bodybuilder, Optare of Leeds. Somehow, the two companies (Darwen and Jamesstan) were somehow fused together and the whole shooting match was renamed Optare.

Optare hadn't got a double-decker body as their sole double deck, the Spectra was sold as a complete bus, albeit using a DAF chassis. Thus what was the East Lancs Olympus now became the Optare Olympus (via briefly the Darwen Olympus) and Optare now had a body to plonk on any chassis the customer wanted. 

Still with me? Good. Now what the hell has all of this got to do with the bus in the picture? Don't worry, it's getting there.

Now Optare did build other products. After purchasing the designs and production of the integral Metro Rider midibus from the defunct MCW, they used the frame design to build several single-deck models, focusing on lightweight and economy. It harboured the idea of producing an integral double-decker of its own making and with the reverse takeover and associated shenanigans settling down, a thorough redesign of their models was started. Firstly came the SoLo +. This was a complete restyle of their best-selling low-floor minibus (based upon the MetroRider frame once again). They had only just re-styled it the year before, producing the curvy SoLo SR but obviously fresh new company owners, fresh new designs and all that...

The styling was dramatic, to say the least, very square and Darth Vader-y. It definitely caused a stir when shown off for the first time at the end of 2008. What was also shown off for the first time was their new double-deck design, the Rapta. This took the severe SoLo+ design and made it a double deck. Striking was one word for it, it really didn't look like anything else on the road, soft friendly curves were eschewed for straight bodysides and stark angles and the front managed to look more Darth Vader-y than the small SoLo+. It was going to be a fully in-house built product (thanks to the help from the staff from Leyland Product Developments) with power from M.A.N or a hybrid driveline of some sort (interestingly, one of Roy Stanleys' other companies was the Tanfield group who were slowly metamorphosing into a producer of electric vehicles, amongst other things).

The reception for both products from operators was not what Optare expected, in fact, orders failed to materialise at all as those who would sign the order cheques were put off by the overly dramatic styling. Great, now what?

Back to the drawing board, that's what. The SoLo SR was given a reprieve and the two SoLo+ built were quickly and quietly disposed of. The Rapta hung around the factory for a few years, slowly disintegrating and revealing that behind the deeply tinted windows lay, well, very little more than a rolling shell. With all the drama of the launch, there really wasn't much substance behind the razzamatazz.

But Optare still harboured dreams of building their own integral double-deck bus. With the Rapta and SoLo+ fiasco over, funds were tight (especially after a move to a brand new factory in Sherburn-in Elmet)so the cupboards were rummaged through to see what could be rustled up. Starting with the Olympus body, an underframe was slowly built up underneath (thanks to those LDP folk) to make the body into an integral bus. The idea was to be a reverse MCW Metrobus where the body would be available to mount on other chassis but also could be bought as an integral product (the Metrobus was an underframe that could be a complete product or be bodied elsewhere). Lightness and economy were back in the plan so a tiny Mercedes four-cylinder engine and ZF Ecolife gearbox were used to propel the new bus along. Everything was done to make the underframe as light as possible to give the product class-leading running costs. 

Optare integral No.2 was to be launched as the Olympus integral and construction would start sometime around 2013. Ish. Even though the Olympus integral was ready (at least in prototype form), it was old and still looked like a past product from Blackburn and not the stylish product from a builder with a reputation for good-looking vehicles. The money was coming from yet another bit of the Leyland Empire. Ashok Leyland was once the Indian Subsidiary of the once huge Lancashire firm but had since gone on alone and made quite a good fist in building the right products for their market. Looking for something to spend their profits on, the cash-strapped Optare looked a good deal. Ashok needed something more than their very basic bus offerings (plus a way into other markets) and Optare needed the money - a match made in heaven. Slowly, over time, Ashok increased its shareholding of Optare until 100% was owned (note: this is a VERY simplified version of what went on with a slight bend in the actual timeline of events but you've tolerated me this far and I don't want to go on yet another tangent).

Optare hovered about a bit and then decided that the new underframe needed a new body with it. Styling, after the Rapta debacle was back on its usual curvy track and a number of new models had been created, using the styling of the SoLo SR as a starting point. It made perfect sense to make the new decker look as though it was part of the family. At the same time, the weight could be designed out of the new bespoke bodywork, meaning that the new bus would be far lighter than, not only the Olympus prototype but any other double-decker on the market. 

It took an age to get there (so did this piece) but by 2014 the new Optare MetroDecker was ready to launch. The underframe was the same one as used on the Olympus integral prototype but the body took weight-saving to heights seen only before on Lothian's lightweight Titans of the '60s (called monstrous masses of shivering tin at the time by someone who doesn't matter). Three demonstrators were built, along with two other proving models which were hawked around every operator, large and small to promote this new double-decker ultra-lightweight double-decker from Optare. Like the Rapata, potential customers were put off by Optare seeming to go just a bit too far. They saw the flimsiness as a weakness and a potential disaster waiting to happen and not the new way of drastically reducing fuel bills (maybe memories of the 150s and '60s lightweights still burned brightly in some operators' memories). It failed to sell. Big time.

There was one order. Reading actually liked what it saw when it tried one of the demonstrators and so ordered five with an upmarket specification for their Green Line route. Even then, Optare managed to screw things up with continuous delays and problems setting back delivery dates again and again until Covid came and gave Reading the excuse to cancel the order, after they had been built, over two years after the order was initially placed. Left with five buses, they were hawked around anyone willing to buy a new well-specced but unknown double-deck bus with a tiny engine and flimsy panels. Two were bought by Johnsons coaches of Henley in Arden for their route from Birmingham to Stratford upon Avon. Johnsons sold out its bus operations to Rotala Group and the bus fleet was absorbed into that of Diamond Bus.

One of five buses ordered but not delivered with a total production of (I think, including the prototypes) 10. Not that great, is it? Well...

In the past few years, the battery electric bus has slowly been getting good enough for operators to seriously consider large-scale purchases. True, the cost of the things is still astronomical but with dramatic long-term savings on fuel, and maintenance, plus a vast improvement in the workplace for all those who have to actually operate them, the electric bus is starting to look very attractive indeed. The biggest issue is weight, with a penalty of at least two tons over a normal diesel variant. More weight means fewer passengers able to be carried and that's not good. If only there was an ultra-lightweight double-decker out there that could be used as the basis of an electric bus.

It seems the MetroDecker is not such a dead duck after all. As a diesel bus? Probably, but slowly the MetroDecker is starting to attract orders. Okay, it's mostly London, a place that has firmly committed itself to electric propulsion but hey, any orders are good orders. You never know, someone else might buy some...

With rationalisation, Optare has now become Switch Mobility and looks after all of Ashok's EV requirements around the globe. It is intended that Switch will only sell Electric vehicles but with Diesel variants of the old models still capable of being built, they will still be sold under the Optare brand. Just don't expect any more deckers, this one took long enough.

[Metal Guru]

2 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

A bit of modern bus shite this evening. This is an Optare MetroDecker that is now owned by Diamond Bus in the West Midlands. Shite. you say? Oh yes. Sit down while I tell you a tale...

 

It sort of starts with another bodybuilder, East Lancs of Blackburn. They had been selling their double-deck body, the Olympus reasonably well. Unfortunately, in 2007, East Lancs ran out of money and called in the receivers. They were rescued by the Darwen Group, a company that magically appeared for the purpose of saving East Lancs, the day after it fell into receivership. Interesting timing.

Now the Darwen group, owned by Local entrepreneur Roy Stanley decided to purchase Leyland Product Developments, a splinter of the once monolithic Leyland empire, their skunkworks division but with more brown coats and ties. But Roy didn't stop there. In 2008 he set up another company (Jamesstan Investments) to purchase another struggling bodybuilder, Optare of Leeds. Somehow, the two companies (Darwen and Jamesstan) were somehow fused together and the whole shooting match was renamed Optare.

Optare hadn't got a double-decker body as their sole double deck, the Spectra was sold as a complete bus, albeit using a DAF chassis. Thus what was the East Lancs Olympus now became the Optare Olympus (via briefly the Darwen Olympus) and Optare now had a body to plonk on any chassis the customer wanted. 

Still with me? Good. Now what the hell has all of this got to do with the bus in the picture? Don't worry, it's getting there.

Now Optare did build other products. After purchasing the designs and production of the integral Metro Rider midibus from the defunct MCW, they used the frame design to build several single-deck models, focusing on lightweight and economy. It harboured the idea of producing an integral double-decker of its own making and with the reverse takeover and associated shenanigans settling down, a thorough redesign of their models was started. Firstly came the SoLo +. This was a complete restyle of their best-selling low-floor minibus (based upon the MetroRider frame once again). They had only just re-styled it the year before, producing the curvy SoLo SR but obviously fresh new company owners, fresh new designs and all that...

The styling was dramatic, to say the least, very square and Darth Vader-y. It definitely caused a stir when shown off for the first time at the end of 2008. What was also shown off for the first time was their new double-deck design, the Rapta. This took the severe SoLo+ design and made it a double deck. Striking was one word for it, it really didn't look like anything else on the road, soft friendly curves were eschewed for straight bodysides and stark angles and the front managed to look more Darth Vader-y than the small SoLo+. It was going to be a fully in-house built product (thanks to the help from the staff from Leyland Product Developments) with power from M.A.N or a hybrid driveline of some sort (interestingly, one of Roy Stanleys' other companies was the Tanfield group who were slowly metamorphosing into a producer of electric vehicles, amongst other things).

The reception for both products from operators was not what Optare expected, in fact, orders failed to materialise at all as those who would sign the order cheques were put off by the overly dramatic styling. Great, now what?

Back to the drawing board, that's what. The SoLo SR was given a reprieve and the two SoLo+ built were quickly and quietly disposed of. The Rapta hung around the factory for a few years, slowly disintegrating and revealing that behind the deeply tinted windows lay, well, very little more than a rolling shell. With all the drama of the launch, there really wasn't much substance behind the razzamatazz.

But Optare still harboured dreams of building their own integral double-deck bus. With the Rapta and SoLo+ fiasco over, funds were tight (especially after a move to a brand new factory in Sherburn-in Elmet)so the cupboards were rummaged through to see what could be rustled up. Starting with the Olympus body, an underframe was slowly built up underneath (thanks to those LDP folk) to make the body into an integral bus. The idea was to be a reverse MCW Metrobus where the body would be available to mount on other chassis but also could be bought as an integral product (the Metrobus was an underframe that could be a complete product or be bodied elsewhere). Lightness and economy were back in the plan so a tiny Mercedes four-cylinder engine and ZF Ecolife gearbox were used to propel the new bus along. Everything was done to make the underframe as light as possible to give the product class-leading running costs. 

Optare integral No.2 was to be launched as the Olympus integral and construction would start sometime around 2013. Ish. Even though the Olympus integral was ready (at least in prototype form), it was old and still looked like a past product from Blackburn and not the stylish product from a builder with a reputation for good-looking vehicles. The money was coming from yet another bit of the Leyland Empire. Ashok Leyland was once the Indian Subsidiary of the once huge Lancashire firm but had since gone on alone and made quite a good fist in building the right products for their market. Looking for something to spend their profits on, the cash-strapped Optare looked a good deal. Ashok needed something more than their very basic bus offerings (plus a way into other markets) and Optare needed the money - a match made in heaven. Slowly, over time, Ashok increased its shareholding of Optare until 100% was owned (note: this is a VERY simplified version of what went on with a slight bend in the actual timeline of events but you've tolerated me this far and I don't want to go on yet another tangent).

Optare hovered about a bit and then decided that the new underframe needed a new body with it. Styling, after the Rapta debacle was back on its usual curvy track and a number of new models had been created, using the styling of the SoLo SR as a starting point. It made perfect sense to make the new decker look as though it was part of the family. At the same time, the weight could be designed out of the new bespoke bodywork, meaning that the new bus would be far lighter than, not only the Olympus prototype but any other double-decker on the market. 

It took an age to get there (so did this piece) but by 2014 the new Optare MetroDecker was ready to launch. The underframe was the same one as used on the Olympus integral prototype but the body took weight-saving to heights seen only before on Lothian's lightweight Titans of the '60s (called monstrous masses of shivering tin at the time by someone who doesn't matter). Three demonstrators were built, along with two other proving models which were hawked around every operator, large and small to promote this new double-decker ultra-lightweight double-decker from Optare. Like the Rapata, potential customers were put off by Optare seeming to go just a bit too far. They saw the flimsiness as a weakness and a potential disaster waiting to happen and not the new way of drastically reducing fuel bills (maybe memories of the 150s and '60s lightweights still burned brightly in some operators' memories). It failed to sell. Big time.

There was one order. Reading actually liked what it saw when it tried one of the demonstrators and so ordered five with an upmarket specification for their Green Line route. Even then, Optare managed to screw things up with continuous delays and problems setting back delivery dates again and again until Covid came and gave Reading the excuse to cancel the order, after they had been built, over two years after the order was initially placed. Left with five buses, they were hawked around anyone willing to buy a new well-specced but unknown double-deck bus with a tiny engine and flimsy panels. Two were bought by Johnsons coaches of Henley in Arden for their route from Birmingham to Stratford upon Avon. Johnsons sold out its bus operations to Rotala Group and the bus fleet was absorbed into that of Diamond Bus.

One of five buses ordered but not delivered with a total production of (I think, including the prototypes) 10. Not that great, is it? Well...

In the past few years, the battery electric bus has slowly been getting good enough for operators to seriously consider large-scale purchases. True, the cost of the things is still astronomical but with dramatic long-term savings on fuel, and maintenance, plus a vast improvement in the workplace for all those who have to actually operate them, the electric bus is starting to look very attractive indeed. The biggest issue is weight, with a penalty of at least two tons over a normal diesel variant. More weight means fewer passengers able to be carried and that's not good. If only there was an ultra-lightweight double-decker out there that could be used as the basis of an electric bus.

It seems the MetroDecker is not such a dead duck after all. As a diesel bus? Probably, but slowly the MetroDecker is starting to attract orders. Okay, it's mostly London, a place that has firmly committed itself to electric propulsion but hey, any orders are good orders. You never know, someone else might buy some...

With rationalisation, Optare has now become Switch Mobility and looks after all of Ashok's EV requirements around the globe. It is intended that Switch will only sell Electric vehicles but with Diesel variants of the old models still capable of being built, they will still be sold under the Optare brand. Just don't expect any more deckers, this one took long enough.

I’ve seen people write less for a PhD!

[martc]

More panoramic fun - a ZIL-118 'Yonust' ('youth').

[cms206]

58-year old bus driver murdered in Elgin bus station last night by a 15-year old.

We've a few Elgin drivers down here in London. The mood in the hotel is quite sombre.

 

Rest easy driver, we'll take it from here.

 

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/teenage-boy-arrested-over-death-of-stagecoach-bus-driver-in-elgin-moray?fbclid=IwAR300yL_sSSOqva64aQfkTc_HiiDkDGWY64_28Vnj-1yxB6EsCGQn1-22Bk

[cms206]

Well, another three weeker in London done;  another decent spell and very few problems, though my first shift (first run!) back saw another curtailment unlocked on the 462, at Hainault, The Lowe - also the terminus for the N8 which is an absolute fucking monster of a route.

Spent the majority of this trip on midibus routes; think I only did one shift on the 145 and two on the 62, the remainder of the trip split between 167s and 462s.

The trip was not entirely uneventful...

... with 36669 deciding it had enough on my penultimate shift, before dumping all of it's coolant over the engine on the Cranbrook Road in Ilford. 36657 did the honours as a replacement, unlocking another curtailment in the process; Barkingside, Fullwell Cross.

Final bus of the trip was 36663 on Friday evening.

A sad loss to report is of our last old shape Enviro 200, written off by a van in Chigwell. Due to it's age it was on it's last year on TFL work, so it won't see the road again; it went like stink and the heaters were volcanic. Genuinely quite sad about this one.

 

A handful of other shots to complete this report of stuff seen on the hop.

[LightBulbFun]

27 minutes ago, cms206 said:

A sad loss to report is of our last old shape Enviro 200, written off by a van in Chigwell. Due to it's age it was on it's last year on TFL work, so it won't see the road again; it went like stink and the heaters were volcanic. Genuinely quite sad about this one.

surely the Autoshite thing is to buy it back from the insurance company or whoever, and do an epic collection caper of sorts in it back up to Scotland no?  

[Eyersey1234]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

surely the Autoshite thing is to buy it back from the insurance company or whoever, and do an epic collection caper of sorts in it back up to Scotland no?  

A lot of larger bus companies effectively self insure, I know pre Go Ahead our excess was well into 5 figures though I've no idea what it is now, though if it was the van driver at fault their insurance company will have to pick up the tab.  We had a bus written off a number of years ago by a 4x4 out near Hornsea that lost control on a bend doing over 80mph and hit the bus head on, there was as much damage in terms of money to the 4x4 as the bus and our claim against them was well into 6 figures. There was talk of the driver being prosecuted but I don't know the outcome.

[wesacosa]

a very stern man telling you how to change gear on a Leyland National 

[martc]

The gas turbine powered Vibretti 'Golden Dolphin', capable of doing 200 km/h. Unsurprisingly only one was made. Also panoramic.

http://www.bubblemania.fr/en/bus-viberti-golden-dolphin-1956-turin-italie/

[martc]

Another Ikarus in the USSR, this time a 250.09  in Vladimir Oblast, 1974.

[kirton]

On 28/01/2024 at 14:52, Metal Guru said:

I remember going to school on M&D Atlanteans in the 70s. They were quite old then I think. 

I can remember going to school when these were brand new, very different to the rear entry proper buses with exhaust brakes

[gm]

front street, chester le street 

[willswitchengage]

Is this unique? Orange County Transit Authority's 'Superbus' of the 1980s. Looks like the air-con system has a reefer power unit. Apparently the design was seen as a good idea for its high capacity and low floor.

[petermchugh79]

Big gal, broken down

Sent from my 21061119DG using Tapatalk

[Yoss]

Came across this whilst out on delivery yesterday. 

These elderly Volvo's were brought in last year to boost the Bluestar fleet when First Bus pulled out. We have 13 of them, or we did, they've started replacing them with some marginally newer ex London General Dennis Tridents recently. These Volvo's are known locally as the noisy buses as half of them have their cooling fans stuck on permanently. There have been letters in the local paper about them and even my mum has noticed them!

It's not often you see two of them together now.

6902 is the loudest of them all. You can hear it pretty much the whole length of Shirley Road.

Oh, the shame. Not just for breaking down but for being rescued by an Iveco.

I don't know how much longer they will be here. I'm sure we have more than 13 of the Tridents now and yet they are still using these. On top of that, both types were only supposed to be stop gaps until new buses arrived. First Bus pulled out almost exactly a year ago now. They announced they were pulling out about three months before that at which point Bluestar almost immediately announced they would be stepping in to replace a lot of the First Bus routes. I realise you can't order new buses in three months but I would have thought you could in 15 months but what do I know. They did announce they were going to be getting new buses but perhaps they have changed their minds.

[Inspector Morose]

I'll just drop this here.

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

I'll just drop this here.

is that the same Cummins V6 they tried in XF3? 

[Inspector Morose]

Just now, LightBulbFun said:

is that the same Cummins V6 they tried in XF3? 

Before that.

[N19]

I remember Volvo B7TLs of that era sounding like a howling vacuum cleaner a couple of years after being new, in the hands of some less well-maintaining operators - shame that they are still groaning around.

[jon.k]

 

Were the B7TLs any relation to this? On the route this one is pictured on, they took a load of normal buses off and put these coaches to work. They made such weird noises, like a spaceship or something at times. The mainly old people who used them didn't like the steps, so it wasn't long before they were taken off the route and normal buses were back.

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

I'll just drop this here.

Aaarrhhh, the sound of that V6 engine, screaming away in the back of a Roadliner was something to behold. I was lucky, Chesterfield had some (never got to drive one), but travelled on many, and travelled on Bournemouth's (on loan to LCBS),  and.. 

 

Stay still my beating heart !!!

 

The re-engined ones with the Perkins V8 may have been more reliable but....

 

[cms206]

Back in today after four days; 1617 start on the 167.

[Eyersey1234]

On 13/02/2024 at 16:15, Yoss said:

Came across this whilst out on delivery yesterday. 

These elderly Volvo's were brought in last year to boost the Bluestar fleet when First Bus pulled out. We have 13 of them, or we did, they've started replacing them with some marginally newer ex London General Dennis Tridents recently. These Volvo's are known locally as the noisy buses as half of them have their cooling fans stuck on permanently. There have been letters in the local paper about them and even my mum has noticed them!

It's not often you see two of them together now.

6902 is the loudest of them all. You can hear it pretty much the whole length of Shirley Road.

Oh, the shame. Not just for breaking down but for being rescued by an Iveco.

I don't know how much longer they will be here. I'm sure we have more than 13 of the Tridents now and yet they are still using these. On top of that, both types were only supposed to be stop gaps until new buses arrived. First Bus pulled out almost exactly a year ago now. They announced they were pulling out about three months before that at which point Bluestar almost immediately announced they would be stepping in to replace a lot of the First Bus routes. I realise you can't order new buses in three months but I would have thought you could in 15 months but what do I know. They did announce they were going to be getting new buses but perhaps they have changed their minds.

Go Ahead have probably dithered and dithered over authorising the order, when we got extra NX work last year the new coaches were meant to be ordered within 6 months, it took Go Ahead 10 months to authorise it

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 13/02/2024 at 16:15, Yoss said:

Came across this whilst out on delivery yesterday. 

These elderly Volvo's were brought in last year to boost the Bluestar fleet when First Bus pulled out. We have 13 of them, or we did, they've started replacing them with some marginally newer ex London General Dennis Tridents recently. These Volvo's are known locally as the noisy buses as half of them have their cooling fans stuck on permanently. There have been letters in the local paper about them and even my mum has noticed them!

It's not often you see two of them together now.

6902 is the loudest of them all. You can hear it pretty much the whole length of Shirley Road.

Oh, the shame. Not just for breaking down but for being rescued by an Iveco.

I don't know how much longer they will be here. I'm sure we have more than 13 of the Tridents now and yet they are still using these. On top of that, both types were only supposed to be stop gaps until new buses arrived. First Bus pulled out almost exactly a year ago now. They announced they were pulling out about three months before that at which point Bluestar almost immediately announced they would be stepping in to replace a lot of the First Bus routes. I realise you can't order new buses in three months but I would have thought you could in 15 months but what do I know. They did announce they were going to be getting new buses but perhaps they have changed their minds.

iirc it was because they had a hydraulic fan? nxwm had all theirs converted as some sort of enviromental package

i'm sure the inspector will correct if i'm wrong

[Yoss]

19 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

iirc it was because they had a hydraulic fan? nxwm had all theirs converted as some sort of enviromental package

i'm sure the inspector will correct if i'm wrong

They are certainly not electric as they go up and down with engine speed which makes the noise even more annoying. So my guess was that they are on some sort of clutch that is somehow thermostatically activated but that's just a guess.

[Inspector Morose]

3 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

iirc it was because they had a hydraulic fan? nxwm had all theirs converted as some sort of enviromental package

i'm sure the inspector will correct if i'm wrong

You're not wrong! The NXWM B7s were nearly always on full until Grayson Systems came out with an electric retrofit package. They're quite cool too as they have a routine where they blow backwards to help clear the crap back out of the fins.

The original set up was an ecu controlled hydraulic set up and its fail state was full on at full (engine driven) pump pressure Needless to say, any glitch in sensors, wiring or ecu meant double deck hoovers running around. They reckoned that it knocked over 1mpg off the economy, not great when they're only doing about 5 to begin with.

[LightBulbFun]

interesting, every now and then back in the day there used to be the odd Trident around here that was loud as fuck, interesting to learn the reasoning behind that  (assuming tridents suffer from the same sort of issues!)

35 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

They reckoned that it knocked over 1mpg off the economy, not great when they're only doing about 5 to begin with.

is that all?! a Routemaster will do about 8 or 9 Mpg IIRC...

 

[Inspector Morose]

See how your relatively economical heaps economy plummets when faced with round the town traffic? Yeah, times that by eleventy billion. Stop start, stop start, it absolutely kills economy even in the best of things. Add an old school auto gearbox and it’s no real wonder that they only do pitiful miles per gallon.

As a confirmed 680 and L10 fan (sorry, no Gardners here - go back to the 19th century where you belong), it pains me to say that modern engines aren’t that bad on torque and given the obscene amounts of stress they’re put under by their mega turbos and strangled with hideously complex emission control equipment, the figures that they put out are nothing short of remarkable. Longevity isn’t that bad either.

It’s this economy that’s driving some large operators push for more battery electrics, they are simply far cheaper to fuel and in an industry that seems to constantly invent new bottoms to race towards, fuel costs are a huge stumbling block in trying to make services pay. Add on reduced component wear, reduced maintenance and theoretically longer service life (mechanically, anyway), it’s a no brainer.

[rml2345]

It's almost like buses without big, vibrating powerplants that shake everything to bits and consume fuel, fluids and enormous amounts of time and effort are the future? A certain Walsall GM would have been pleased...

[busmansholiday]

8 hours ago, 83C said:

I get that emissions regs are the cause of much of the complexity and nature of how modern vehicles drive, but for actually getting the job done the vehicles of yesteryear were far better.

Hate Nationals that I do, it was a lot, lot easier for a shift than a crash box Leopard on local services, and South Yorkshire is hardly flat.