Selling a clocked car - what would you do?

[Peter C]

A couple of years ago my brother in law bought a 7 year old car for almost £5k. The car was advertised with 60k miles on the clock with FSH and looked mint, much better than you would expect a 7 year old car with 60k miles on the clock to look. The service book didn't look right to me but the car looked great, was the right colour and spec and my brother in law was dead keen. We paid cash and took the car.

 

That evening we did some checks and discovered on the VOSA internet system that the mileage on the most recent MoT certificate was 140k miles. We went back to the place where we met the seller (a dealer) but it turned out that the address was fake. We had no way of getting back to the scum bag dealer. His mobile phone was switched off for months after the sale.

 

For the past two years my brother in law drove the car around and clocked up approx 10k miles. With the mileage at just over 70k he now wants to sell the car. The trouble is that according to the VOSA computer the reduced mileage only registered on the system AFTER my brother in law became the registered keeper, so any dodgy dealings would be traced back to him.

 

Option 1:

 

Sell the car with a mileage of 70k miles. Trouble is that at any point in the future someone who discovers the change of mileage, with the DVLA's help, will trace the wrongdoing back to my brother in law. At best someone will want a refund, at worst the police may become involved.

 

Option 2:

 

Set the mileage at approx 150k miles, ditch the fake FSH and sell the car honestly as a high mileage car with no history. The car would be worth approx half of what it would do if it had 70k miles on the clock.

 

Option 3:

 

Take the car to Poland, where we have contacts and where cars brought over from the UK are rarely offered with any history, convert it to LHD, sell it with 70k on the clock and get for it somewhere between Option 1 and 2 value.

 

What would you do? Option 3 is a bit of a pain in the arse but it's what I would do.

[Father Ted]

Dont touch the clock, but explain that the millage is nearer 150 than 70K and price it somewhere between 1 and 2 and see what happens. Make sure your receipt says that the cars mileage is not correct.

[Mr Lobster]

Option 3 sounds like way too much hassle for my liking. Depends on what the difference in price between option 1 and 2 is but I'd be tempted to go for 1 and just punt it on privately. Maybe tell a new owner that you suspect the mileage is wrong though.

 

Even if someone does find out then nothing can be proven and you'd deny all knowledge. I know its not morally right like but depends on what the cars worth and if you can afford to take the hit.

[Formula Autos]

Option 4: it 'diasappears'.

 

Are the insurance company aware of any of the mileage issues? If not, it would be worth approximately what a 70k example would be. Extremely naughty, to say the least, but then again so's selling it on again without divulging it's been clocked in the past.

 

Just leave it unattended in a dodgy area with the keys still in the ignition. Simples.

 

Having said all that, I wouldn't. It is an option though ....

[Albert Ross]

Option 37.

 

It lost it's mileage from the hard chipset "or whatever" during a reprogramming session just after you got it. Therefore the mileage is wrong.

 

Or if it has a mechanical recording, it had a new speedo head.

[eddyramrod]

I'd bin the so-called history and disclaim the mileage as "unlikely to be accurate" or words to that effect. You will have to value it accordingly but at least you'll come out clean.

[Tayne]

,

[Cavcraft]

Option 5:

 

Advertise mentioning what you have and explain that the current mileage shown will be incorrect due to corrupt previous owner.

Anything else really isn't cricket. Just because your brother-in-law was turned over doesn't make it right that he in turn should lie about the car.

[shaun1706]

Option 2 and take the hit. Your conscience will be clear if that is any consolation

[Formula Autos]

Option 4: it 'diasappears'.

 

Just leave it unattended in a dodgy area with the keys still in the ignition. Simples.

 

Don't leave the keys in it.

The insurance company may ask for them, some want to know how many key fobs you have.

I know someone who thought of a way round that - they left a newly cut key in the ignition, and later handed over two scruffy keys to the insurance assessor. It took three weeks for someone to eventually steal his Saxo though. Discerning, your modern car thief.

[Tayne]

,

[trigger]

Option 37.

 

It lost it's mileage from the hard chipset "or whatever" during a reprogramming session just after you got it. Therefore the mileage is wrong.

 

Or if it has a mechanical recording, it had a new speedo head.

This is what i'd do, Just explain that it's had new clocks fitted at some point and when you bought to from a dealer they explained that it had no history but they was told by the last owner that it had to have it's clock changed at some point and that the mileage is much higher.

 

How old is this Merc?, are we talking about lots of money here?.

[Formula Autos]

Your mate didn't need to show id and proof of ownership to get the new key?

 

If its a mechanical key that could be cut anywhere then so be it.

But if its a dealer only job that gets discovered then you have no car and no insurance money.

Cut at Timpson's, and paid for in cash. The keypad immobiliser in front of the gearstick had been bypassed as well.

 

Things got desperate when no-one would steal it. He went to the tip and picked up an expensive looking hi-fi to leave on the back seat as a lure. That did the trick.

[Volksy]

It does make me laugh that people consider fraudulently claiming on insurance.. I also bet that they are the first to whinge when premiums get higher than the already stratuspheric price they are now.

 

Personally, I'd be honest, 160k on a 9 year old car isn't ridiculous.

[Timewaster]

Dont touch the clock, but explain that the millage is nearer 150 than 70K and price it somewhere between 1 and 2 and see what happens. Make sure your receipt says that the cars mileage is not correct.

+1

 

Also think the insurance idea is stupid and I know people who have been inside for it.

 

And another who got weeks of community service.

 

Hmm..Actually I must know some dodgy sorts....

[Guest]

The problem is, the people who favour the option of "Sod em, caveat emptor" are unlikely to say so on a public forum, so there's a bias there. Up to you!

[CortinaDave]

I'd be inclined to lose the fake FSH and sell it as is, saying that the mileage wasnt right as apparently a previous keeper had had to change the speedo, and that you dont know how many miles it has done - but that the "condition of the car suggests its not much higher"

[HillmanImp]

PX it for a car off Quentin Wilson. That'll learn 'im.

 

Unless of course the car you get has not been clocked.

[warren t claim]

PX it for a car off Quentin Wilson. That'll learn 'im.

 

Unless of course the car you get has not been clocked.

I think Quent has already been in a spot of bother for that in the past.

[Renault18]

I kid you not, about six years ago, I changed a perfectly reliable Megane for one of the then new "fat-arsed" types. The new models were obviously designed and built by French retards and, as such I spent more time driving courtesy cars than the car I'd paid for.

 

An "aquaintance" who I'd known for a long time and who was handy for parts discounts, worked at the dealership. One particular Saturday morning when I'd basically threatened to burn the car on their premises, he approached me and asked if I'd like the car to "go missing".

 

He explained how he knew people who would "remove" the car and then I could claim on my insurance. He also assured me that it would work. I thanked him, but my conscience wouldn't let me do it. He phoned a few days later to assure me that, after a word, it would be no problem.

 

Even if I had gone through with it, the bastard thing would have broken down whilst they were stealing it. In the end, Renault got so fed up (of both the car and me) that I ended up with a new Scenic, which is really what I'd been after anyway.

[Peter C]

How old is this Merc?, are we talking about lots of money here?.

The car is not a Merc. My brother in law is too young and stupid to appreciate the finer things in life!

 

Option 1: too risky.

 

Option 2: or a modified version as per advice above sounds reasonable.

 

Option 3: I like the idea of taking it abroad but it is hassle.

 

Option 4: insurance fraud - no thank you.

 

There's a guy coming to see the car this evening. The car is currently on AutoTrader advertised with 70k miles on the clock. We'll see what happens!

[gtd2000]

To be honest, I never assume the mileage is correct on any car I’ve bought whatsoever.

 

Changing the mileage on the clock is generally so simple that anybody could do it – especially with the new digital odometers, it’s a simple cable connection from an electronic box and no need to remove anything from the dash!

 

I normally buy a car based on the condition, rather than the mileage. I remember buying my Corolla AE86 with 109,000 on the clock and thinking the mileage was high at the time but the car was immaculate and drove like new!

 

An old GF of mine was given her Grandparents old Golf which was in virtually mint condition – but had 250,000 miles on it!! It could have been passed off as a 50,000 mile car without a blink of an eye!

 

Go to a site like http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk and do a couple of valuations for the current meter reading and the mileage you think it should be and see the difference.

 

I’m pretty sure with the present age of the car it’s not going to be a horrendous difference in price now.

[Peter C]

Changing the mileage on the clock is generally so simple that anybody could do it – especially with the new digital odometers, it’s a simple cable connection from an electronic box and no need to remove anything from the dash!

Adjusting the mileage on the clock is very easy, but making up the car's history and changing the VOSA system records is a tad more difficult.

 

Since my brother in law bought this car, every time I've been out to look for a motor I've done a VOSA MoT history check on it before handing over any cash. I've been lucky with my cars and I've never bought a clocked motor, as far as I know anyway, but that's probably because I am thorough and picky when buying cars.

[Peter C]

Go to a site like http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk and do a couple of valuations for the current meter reading and the mileage you think it should be and see the difference.

Done it.

 

With 70k miles on the clock:

 

Retail: £4,785

Private Good: £3,605

Private Average: £2,845

Private Poor: £2,175

Part Exchange: £3,125

Trade: £2,903

 

With 150k miles on the clock:

 

Retail: £3,845

Private Good: £2,665

Private Average: £1,905

Private Poor: £1,235

Part Exchange: £2,185

Trade: £1,963

 

There's a grand in it, apparently.

[r.welfare]

There's a guy coming to see the car this evening. The car is currently on AutoTrader advertised with 70k miles on the clock. We'll see what happens!

Is the guy coming to see it on the expectation it has done 70k, or 150k?

[Peter C]

70k.

[gtd2000]

Changing the mileage on the clock is generally so simple that anybody could do it – especially with the new digital odometers, it’s a simple cable connection from an electronic box and no need to remove anything from the dash!

Adjusting the mileage on the clock is very easy, but making up the car's history and changing the VOSA system records is a tad more difficult.

 

Since my brother in law bought this car, every time I've been out to look for a motor I've done a VOSA MoT history check on it before handing over any cash. I've been lucky with my cars and I've never bought a clocked motor, as far as I know anyway, but that's probably because I am thorough and picky when buying cars.

It's all quite easy really as far as the mileage is concerned.

 

Before the first MOT the car is given a haircut, first MOT then records the lower mileage.

 

Car is then subsequently given a haircut before each MOT takes place but never below the mileage recorded on the previous MOT if the car will be sold on. If the car is not to be sold on as long as the car exceeds the last MOT mileage its not a problem.

 

That way everything looks pukka with the VOSA records.

 

Stamps in the service booklet is eaily done - you can buy stamps on the internet made out for whatever business you can imagine. All you need to do is buy/source a service history booklet and stamp away.

 

True that the actual receipts are more of a challenge - but then again you were suspicious when looking at the car history and your gut feeling/instinct was correct.

[gtd2000]

70k.

By the way when the car was sold to your brother - did the previous owner record the mileage on the V5C?

[r.welfare]

70k.

Personally I'd be pretty peeved if I turned up to see a car advertised at 70k that (with a bit of digging - caveat emptor again, mind) had more like 150k on the clock...so you're in effect going with Option 1 at the moment?

[Peter C]

Changing the mileage on the clock is generally so simple that anybody could do it – especially with the new digital odometers, it’s a simple cable connection from an electronic box and no need to remove anything from the dash!

Adjusting the mileage on the clock is very easy, but making up the car's history and changing the VOSA system records is a tad more difficult.

 

Since my brother in law bought this car, every time I've been out to look for a motor I've done a VOSA MoT history check on it before handing over any cash. I've been lucky with my cars and I've never bought a clocked motor, as far as I know anyway, but that's probably because I am thorough and picky when buying cars.

It's all quite easy really as far as the mileage is concerned.

 

Before the first MOT the car is given a haircut, first MOT then records the lower mileage.

 

Car is then subsequently given a haircut before each MOT takes place but never below the mileage recorded on the previous MOT if the car will be sold on. If the car is not to be sold on as long as the car exceeds the last MOT mileage its not a problem.

 

That way everything looks pukka with the VOSA records.

 

Stamps in the service booklet is eaily done - you can buy stamps on the internet made out for whatever business you can imagine. All you need to do is buy/source a service history booklet and stamp away.

 

True that the actual receipts are more of a challenge - but then again you were suspicious when looking at the car history and your gut feeling/instinct was correct.

That's all very well providing the car is bought new and the mileage is regularly adjusted, thus neither the dealer nor VOSA have any record of the true mileage. However, clocking a used car that is already in the system is not that easy!