1971 MGB GT - Steering NOT sorted - see page 32

[Peter C]

4 hours ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

I hardly think it is the fault of the garage that the steering wheel was not on square. Everything is bound to change minutely when replacement parts are fitted and adjustments are made, taking into consideration BMC/BL engineering tolerances which I’m sure are not up to NASA standards, all of which has been accentuated and exacerbated by the steering wheel position.

The steering column to universal joint to steering rack fitment may have been a spline out when the rack was fitted.

Sure, if the garage had noticed the wheel was not on square when the alignment was completed they could have corrected it, but I don’t blame them for not doing something that was not within the agreed scope of works.

The UJ to column connections are secured with a nut and bolt and are designed so that the splines will fit if correctly aligned. Put the column in one spline out and the securing bolt won’t fit.

The garage were aware that I have just fitted a replacement steering rack and that they had to set everything up from scratch, including the alignment of the steering wheel. After I had the steering box on my W123 refurbished, I refitted it and took it to Wheels in Motion and I drove home with everything perfectly aligned. That’s the service that I was expecting yesterday.

[Westbay]

"That’s the service that I was expecting  paid for yesterday"

[Peter C]

1 hour ago, Westbay said:

"That’s the service that I was expecting  paid for yesterday"

You think that £78 to align the front wheels was cheap?

[Westbay]

1 hour ago, Peter C said:

You think that £78 to align the front wheels was cheap?

No, about right , I meant that centering the steering wheel is/was part of the 'settings' you paid for ...

[Peter C]

1 minute ago, Westbay said:

No, about right , I meant that centering the steering wheel is/was part of the 'settings' you paid for ...

It’s the most that I’ve paid to have my tracking done.

The garage first quoted £156 to align all four wheels but when I explained that MGBs have leaf springs and a solid axle on the back with no means of adjustment, the price dropped to £78.

[beko1987]

The price sounds about right, I got charged almost £75 inc vat for my front wheel alignment in a basic qashqai at a local tyre place. I shopped around too but I'd have maybe saved a tenner and it wouldn't have been local

Same as aircon regases, when I last wanted done it was £45/50, now it's £75/80 before vat

[SiC]

I pay around £80 for a four wheel alignment but that's because I know of good local places that don't charge a lot more. £150 is the going rate for alignment at specialists - it's about what my mum paid for her Cayman at an independent Porsche garage. 

Done properly and exactly getting it spot on is a time consuming job. Most tyre places don't do it properly. Either in the enormous +/- tolerances that manufacturers give or cheat by jigging the laser mounts to get it spot exactly on the print out if it's nearly there to make a free check into a paid adjustment.

[SiC]

If the wheel was out then you could have gone back and told them it was out. They're supposed to put a clamp on the steering wheel to lock it in place. To give a benefit of doubt maybe they didn't clamp it hard so your steering wheel didn't get damaged? But not quite enough to not wiggle a bit as they set it. Also sometimes things move a bit and settle once load is put on stuff from being driven. 

[Peter C]

9 minutes ago, SiC said:

you could have gone back and told them it was out

Agreed, but it took them so long to do the job first time round that I preferred to go home and sort it myself. Removing and refitting the steering wheel in the correct position took me less than two minutes and that includes the time I spent picking up and putting back tools.

[High Jetter]

3 hours ago, Peter C said:

Agreed, but it took them so long to do the job first time round that I preferred to go home and sort it myself. Removing and refitting the steering wheel in the correct position took me less than two minutes and that includes the time I spent picking up and putting back tools.

Fair point, understandable.

[N Dentressangle]

3 hours ago, Peter C said:

Agreed, but it took them so long to do the job first time round that I preferred to go home and sort it myself. Removing and refitting the steering wheel in the correct position took me less than two minutes and that includes the time I spent picking up and putting back tools.

That's what I normally do too. Not a big deal.

[Peter C]

No chance.

[loserone]

They're quite big aren't they?

[ETCHY]

21 minutes ago, Peter C said:

No chance.

Good god.

No wonder everywhere is so damned crowded now. Roads haven't got any bigger but we have monsters like that on them now. Yes there were always some big cars but now there's more & more of them & they're getting ever bigger !

 

[Snipes]

Wheels in Motion closed a few years ago. The main alignment guy died and the partners in the business sold it to iirc protyre.

The building is still there but it's just another tyre monkey shop now.

[captain_70s]

Had one of them newish LRs right up my arse on Saturday.

Two lane stretch of the M80, conga line of traffic in the left lane doing around 45/50mph about 15cm from each others' bumpers despite pissing rain and significant standing water. Me doing a mildly perilous 60/65mph in the right lane in the Dolomite.

LR flies up behind me at 90mph odd and then proceeds to flash his lights at me as if I can merge into a solid block of traffic which I'm already significantly faster than.

Over the course of 30 seconds or so he gets closer and closer until all I can see out the rear window is radiator grill.

I eventually spot a gap in traffic big enough to dive in and he does that thing where, while passing, they drift into your lane. I genuinely thought I was going to get wiped out but they swerved back into their lane and fucked off into the distance.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope I'd come across them a few miles up the road having wiped themselves out...

[stuboy]

47 minutes ago, Peter C said:

No chance.

HOLY MOLY

[lisbon_road]

@Peter CI bought a laser Trackace tool a while back.  Cost about £80.  Having used it on various cars and seen the effect, I am now convinced that it works and is accurate and repeatable.  Took me a while to get used to it but I am now reasonably quick with it.  Only good for cars with adjustable front only.

@captain_70sthat is a truely horrible story, but sadly one I believe.  I don't know what is happening to people.  I've been teaching my daughter to drive recently and at one point, she was a bit slow to pull away from some traffic lights - just a bit slow - and there was all this hooting from behind.  L plates on the back of course.  What is wrong with people?

That huge Range Rover is hideous.  I feela multiple rant coming on.

 

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

47 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

Had one of them newish LRs right up my arse on Saturday.

Two lane stretch of the M80, conga line of traffic in the left lane doing around 45/50mph about 15cm from each others' bumpers despite pissing rain and significant standing water. Me doing a mildly perilous 60/65mph in the right lane in the Dolomite.

LR flies up behind me at 90mph odd and then proceeds to flash his lights at me as if I can merge into a solid block of traffic which I'm already significantly faster than.

Over the course of 30 seconds or so he gets closer and closer until all I can see out the rear window is radiator grill.

I eventually spot a gap in traffic big enough to dive in and he does that thing where, while passing, they drift into your lane. I genuinely thought I was going to get wiped out but they swerved back into their lane and fucked off into the distance.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope I'd come across them a few miles up the road having wiped themselves out...

It should have been possible in cases like this to submit video of this to the police and the owner/driver of the Range Rover would have lost their driver's license based on the content of the video.

[lesapandre]

55 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

Had one of them newish LRs right up my arse on Saturday.

Two lane stretch of the M80, conga line of traffic in the left lane doing around 45/50mph about 15cm from each others' bumpers despite pissing rain and significant standing water. Me doing a mildly perilous 60/65mph in the right lane in the Dolomite.

LR flies up behind me at 90mph odd and then proceeds to flash his lights at me as if I can merge into a solid block of traffic which I'm already significantly faster than.

Over the course of 30 seconds or so he gets closer and closer until all I can see out the rear window is radiator grill.

I eventually spot a gap in traffic big enough to dive in and he does that thing where, while passing, they drift into your lane. I genuinely thought I was going to get wiped out but they swerved back into their lane and fucked off into the distance.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope I'd come across them a few miles up the road having wiped themselves out...

Take comfort in the fact that they probably have a poor insurance record and pay an awful lot of money.

The swerving thing is awful.

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, Peter C said:

No chance.

Reverse, and pull round?

[SiC]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

It should have been possible in cases like this to submit video of this to the police and the owner/driver of the Range Rover would have lost their driver's license based on the content of the video.

It happens. Albeit big fines and points. 

E.g. this was the news recently near me

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/shocking-moment-tailgating-car-undertakes-9152966

Plus loads of other cases that simply don't make the news. 

[Peter C]

I've driven the MGB a couple of times since I replaced the steering rack and the steering is definitely not sorted. It's still binding, particularly in the straight ahead position. 

I lifted the front of the car in the air and removed the steering column UJ.

With the steering column disconnected from the steering rack, the steering wheel spins freely and I can easily turn the front wheels by pushing / pulling a wheel. This mean that there is nothing wrong with the steering rack or the bushes that I replaced inside the upper section of the steering column and the issue relates to incorrect alignment of the upper and lower sections of the steering column.

I need to get these correctly aligned.

From the internet:

To setup the steering, the universal joint between the steering column and the steering rack is first removed. The cones are then pushed over the splines on the shafts of both the steering column and the steering rack. The cones are designed to be a snug fit over each of the shafts but a slot in the side of each cone allows the 5 1/16 pinch bolts which are used in the standard universal joint to be placed in these slots. Once pushed into the slots the bolts engage with the cutout in each shaft. The bolts are a snug fit in the side slots of the cones, but they can be further secured if required, using an elastic band.

Once the cones have been attached to each column the aim then is to get the tips of the pointers on the steering column and steering rack shafts to align. This can be achieved by adjusting the steering column mountings and / or by adding shim washers between the steering rack mounts and the front suspension crossmember. This process ensures that the steering column and the steering rack are correctly centred and aligned, minimising steering tightness and component stress. The main photo on the listing shows an illustration in the official British Leyland 1974 workshop manual of the original factory tools (18G1140) being used to align the steering on an MGB / MGBGT.

I thought about making my own tool but on the basis that success is dependant on complete accuracy, I figured that I would struggle to make two perfect tools without sight of any dimensions.

So I've splashed out £26 on these.

Fun and games.

More soon.

 

[Snipes]

I'm not convinced  this misalignment is the issue, but I can't offer any other suggestions and it is at least something to try. You have a lot of positive camber on that OSF but I don't think that would cause the steering to bind. Castor is low but nice and even so the car is straight. We're sure the TREs are correct?

You really need brake discs btw!

[danthecapriman]

Might be worth giving the UJ a damn good spray down/soak with WD40 and oil or spray grease etc and work it a bit.

A friend had a Peugeot 205 that had a really stiff spot in the steering. He bought a recon rack to fit thinking it was that, but when we started actually taking things apart it turned out to be the UJ. Sometimes when cars sit they seize up and that’s all that happened to the 205. After lubing it up and working it for a few minutes it free’d off and was faultless after that.

[Peter C]

@Snipes

I’m pretty sure it’s an alignment issue.

The first thing I did to remedy the knock through the steering wheel issue was replace the plastic upper column bush and the lower felt bush. To replace the lower felt bush, I had to remove the steering column. After I reinstated the steering column, the steering was binding. Before I removed the steering column everything was ok, the problem started as soon as I disturbed the steering column alignment.

The Haynes manual makes it clear that the steering rack needs refitting with shims to enable correct alignment of the steering column. Numerous internet posts confirm the same. I’m going to persevere with this remedy.

[Peter C]

4 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Might be worth giving the UJ a damn good spray down/soak with WD40 and oil or spray grease etc and work it a bit.

A friend had a Peugeot 205 that had a really stiff spot in the steering. He bought a recon rack to fit thinking it was that, but when we started actually taking things apart it turned out to be the UJ. Sometimes when cars sit they seize up and that’s all that happened to the 205. After lubing it up and working it for a few minutes it free’d off and was faultless after that.

I’ve had the UJ in my hand today. It’s as loose and floppy as an OAP’s cock.

[Snipes]

1 hour ago, Peter C said:

@Snipes

I’m pretty sure it’s an alignment issue.

The first thing I did to remedy the knock through the steering wheel issue was replace the plastic upper column bush and the lower felt bush. To replace the lower felt bush, I had to remove the steering column. After I reinstated the steering column, the steering was binding. Before I removed the steering column everything was ok, the problem started as soon as I disturbed the steering column alignment.

The Haynes manual makes it clear that the steering rack needs refitting with shims to enable correct alignment of the steering column. Numerous internet posts confirm the same. I’m going to persevere with this remedy.

Yeah in the absence of any other possibilities I would encourage you to persevere with the UJ alignment.