1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - Absolutely fascinating* discovery - see page 48

[Peter C]

Just found this:

This info relates to the Master Cyl. fitted to 1260 and 1271.

Lucas/Girling Part No. 74066315
Ford Part No. 6118138

It has a 7/8" or 22mm bore with 3 outlets
The No. 74660862 is the casting No. on the side of the body
This Master Cyl. is fitted to various Ford Sierra models from 1982 to 1986

The Lucas/Girling service kit No. is SP 7704

[Peter C]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143893693240?itmmeta=01HWJH7ZSBZCHQS19SJW6ZYFK6&hash=item2180bb8338:g:LMcAAOSw9TRf4QO1&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwJLPcv8Nlng3F%2F64JR2rzTJwBP6332FmwFU8dToaVcoaWYE2xKT3MaOpE89zUoeJ%2BAYJdDr2y8GFUi1QV32iIMFN9Y6MABRkR%2BmXhbPbtEd70NZH8jOfSAQD7CRHJKdW3knSGLzEmaeBwVaI0F9kJ2ISHrHf%2BbcQKNc6y2YR9hkOyQpCWVPkUzmeuWcMDYewTEOj6pkIz1oKfqfKyTloPbXLfy2NRyTFE%2FN0%2FNJAO00uDt2cYD1%2F5ES0wjEhVgn85A%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9r8n9HkYw

Useful info:

Here's a new Brake Master Cylinder Repair Seals Kit (22.2mm) (7/8") for the following models from Ford -

FORD

Ford Sierra    (**1982- 88 Only**)

(1300cc, 1600cc, 1800cc, 2000cc, 2300cc & 2300d)

(Not for any Sierras with an engine larger than 2.3)

(**Girlng Only - Not Bendix**)

 

Most of these Master Cylinder will be on Kit Cars by now so Read the Following -

To help you identify, this kit does all the following Master Cylinders as long as the Casting Number AND Plastic Tag are BOTH correct. 

The Tag denotes the Bore. If it's missing then measure it - Should be (22.2mm) (0.875").   

Master Cylinder - 74660862

Tag - 66315 OR 66336

Both these numbers must be exactly right, don't buy this if only one of the numbers is right and then try to fit it to something else - It won't fit.

To Help you identify further - The early Sierra up to 1988 used x4 internal flared seals which are all the same. Later Sierra of 1988- 93 used x2 flared seals and x2 seals that look like bottle tops.

(Note - The Early and Late Sierra Master cylinders are both 7/8").

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Peter C said:

Ford Part No. 6118138

makes sense as on the listed I posted that's pre-88 Girling.

[egg]

@Peter Ca quid cheaper on their website - but can't see about postage.

https://www.mevspares.co.uk/BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-REPAIR-SEALS-KIT-Ford-Sierra-1982-88-Only.html

[Zelandeth]

Give Bigg Red a shout.  Know calipers are their speciality, but I'd be really surprised if they don't have contact details for someone who could refurbish your existing one for a perfectly reasonable sum.  

For reference, they refurbished a gigantic Mercedes 4-pot caliper from a Merc TN van for me, and charged me the princely sum of £110 for it. 

Normal sized axle stand for scale.

Really crappy third party calipers (which dead on arrival) from eBay were more than that.  Great service, great price, would recommend any day of the week.

If the part is so obscure a lot you're likely to find I'd think are likely to be new old stock, so entirely likely to be just as bad as what's come off depending on how well it's been stored.

[lisbon_road]

6 hours ago, Peter C said:

According to the eBay database, the cylinders are all the same for all Sierras but clearly that is not the case.

I am now looking into having mine refurbished. 

I do remember having some master cylinders and servos with different spacings for the mounting studs, so all the same they are not.

Ford part numbers have always seemed over complicated to me.  I've never really understood them.  Seem to be different numbers all over the place for the same part.  

 

Whatever the fluid is like, if the bore looks clean and unscratched, you might well be ok with a seal kit.  That's my view anyway.

[Peter C]

I’ve spoken with Past Parts, they can refurbish the cylinder and post it back to me, all for £160.

That’s a lot more than a £19 seal kit from eBay but as I’ve never stripped a brake master cylinder before, I would rather pay someone who knows what they’re doing to fix it.

As their turnaround is 10-14 days, the Sierra will be stuck in the workshop for the foreseeable future.

[High Jetter]

9 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I’ve never stripped a brake master cylinder before

I've not done a Sierra one, but those I have done in the past have all been dead easy. You just need to remember the sequence it all fits together in and make sure you fit the seals round the right way and lube with brake fluid before re-assembly.

[lisbon_road]

53 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

I've not done a Sierra one, but those I have done in the past have all been dead easy. You just need to remember the sequence it all fits together in and make sure you fit the seals round the right way and lube with brake fluid before re-assembly.

And have a good look at the bore to make sure that it is clean and hasn't any scratches.  There's plenty of us on here who have done this sort of thing to help.  When I did a Sierra one, I think it comes as a sort of unit inside so the messing about with seals is very limited.  You just drop the inner piston thing out and put a replacement in, being meticulous about cleanliness.

 

Edit, had a look at ebay and that stuff about a unit isn't right, but I'd still have a go.  Some complete master cylinders on ebay aren't too expensive mind.

[riek]

it might be worth seeing if you can get one from a scrap car to pull apart and play with?

[Peter C]

19 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Give Bigg Red a shout.  Know calipers are their speciality, but I'd be really surprised if they don't have contact details for someone who could refurbish your existing one for a perfectly reasonable sum.  

For reference, they refurbished a gigantic Mercedes 4-pot caliper from a Merc TN van for me, and charged me the princely sum of £110 for it. 

Normal sized axle stand for scale.

Really crappy third party calipers (which dead on arrival) from eBay were more than that.  Great service, great price, would recommend any day of the week.

If the part is so obscure a lot you're likely to find I'd think are likely to be new old stock, so entirely likely to be just as bad as what's come off depending on how well it's been stored.

Bigg Red have only just refurbished a caliper for my W123. They did a cracking job but having spoken with them on the phone, they don't dabble with much else other than fixing calipers.

[Peter C]

@High Jetter @lisbon_road @riek

All noted, however I would rather spend the extra money and have the work done by someone who fixes brake master cylinders for living. 

I am sure that replacing seals and cleaning a Ford Sierra brake master cylinder is not rocket science, however one false move could cause a lot of bother.

As it happens, I have a fair bit on over the next couple of weeks so I'm not going to have much time for driving or tinkering with the Sierra.

[Peter C]

The Sierra has been parked up in my workshop since I removed the brake master cylinder.

A couple of days ago, I noticed a small pool of coolant on the workshop floor, beneath the front of the engine. I placed an arrangement of paper towels beneath the thermostat housing and the water pump and today I discovered that the towel placed beneath the thermostat housing was soaking wet.

Off came the cam belt cover, top hose and thermostat housing.

Front of the cylinder head looks ok to me.

As does the old gasket.

I applied some of that red coloured gasket sealer to both sides of the gasket before fitting it. Did I put on too much? Or not enough?

I had a spare multi-fit gasket that came with the thermostat but once cut to shape, I decided against fitting it, for obvious reasons.

I've bought a new Victor Reinz gasket from MAR Motorsport for £3.59 inc p&p, should be here by the end of the week.

When I fit the new gasket, should I be applying gasket sealer?

[Wibble]

11 minutes ago, Peter C said:

The Sierra has been parked up in my workshop since I removed the brake master cylinder.

A couple of days ago, I noticed a small pool of coolant on the workshop floor, beneath the front of the engine. I placed an arrangement of paper towels beneath the thermostat housing and the water pump and today I discovered that the towel placed beneath the thermostat housing was soaking wet.

Off came the cam belt cover, top hose and thermostat housing.

Front of the cylinder head looks ok to me.

As does the old gasket.

I applied some of that red coloured gasket sealer to both sides of the gasket before fitting it. Did I put on too much? Or not enough?

I had a spare multi-fit gasket that came with the thermostat but once cut to shape, I decided against fitting it, for obvious reasons.

I've bought a new Victor Reinz gasket from MAR Motorsport for £3.59 inc p&p, should be here by the end of the week.

When I fit the new gasket, should I be applying gasket sealer?

I’ve never used it. 
 

Slight de-rail here but FeelGoodCompetitions are raffling one of these for charity at the moment at £2 a ticket. 33k mile from new!

[Mrcento]

I always do, just a very, very thin smear on both sides.

It's not 'necessary' but always feel if there's any imperfections on a block/housing/pump casting etc then that'll take that potential variable out the equation. Belts and braces. Given yours leaked with the old gasket intact, i think i'd be leaning towards using it.

[Peter C]

Does the surface of this gasket look like it has been damaged by the silicone sealant?

It’s only been on the car for a couple of months and to me it looks unhappy.

[grogee]

6 minutes ago, Peter C said:

Does the surface of this gasket look like it has been damaged by the silicone sealant?

It’s only been on the car for a couple of months and to me it looks unhappy.

Cornflakes packet + scissors = new gasket

[Peter C]

13 minutes ago, grogee said:

Cornflakes packet + scissors = new gasket

I’m on a low carb diet and we don’t have any cereal in the house.

[grogee]

9 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I’m on a low carb diet and we don’t have any cereal in the house.

Ha! 

Seriously though, I have had some success with the 'double gasket' method, and I usually include a smear of sealant in the sandwich for good measure. 

My theory being that more 'squidge' factor can compensate for old, crusty faces (even if cleaned up). 

[sierraman]

12 hours ago, Peter C said:

The Sierra has been parked up in my workshop since I removed the brake master cylinder.

A couple of days ago, I noticed a small pool of coolant on the workshop floor, beneath the front of the engine. I placed an arrangement of paper towels beneath the thermostat housing and the water pump and today I discovered that the towel placed beneath the thermostat housing was soaking wet.

Off came the cam belt cover, top hose and thermostat housing.

Front of the cylinder head looks ok to me.

As does the old gasket.

I applied some of that red coloured gasket sealer to both sides of the gasket before fitting it. Did I put on too much? Or not enough?

I had a spare multi-fit gasket that came with the thermostat but once cut to shape, I decided against fitting it, for obvious reasons.

I've bought a new Victor Reinz gasket from MAR Motorsport for £3.59 inc p&p, should be here by the end of the week.

When I fit the new gasket, should I be applying gasket sealer?

Not strictly necessary but a smear of blue Hylomar won’t hurt it. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

I've always found it tricky using the red stuff - gets uneven. Hylomar is much easier to get spread thin & even.

Ball hammer (ooh err) and decent brown paper used to work well (not the shite stuff Amazon pack their boxes with) but decent brown paper seems to be hard to find these days. Not used a Cornflake box before - a challenge!

12 hours ago, grogee said:

My theory being that more 'squidge' factor can compensate for old, crusty faces (even if cleaned up). 

Works for me  Look at my crusty face now.

[Joey spud]

It wouldn't hurt to check if the housings mating face is maybe distorted.

Place it against a flat surface like a window pane and have a look.

Back many years ago when I had two stroke bikes I would use a sheet of window glass and grinding paste to reface the mounting surfaces of their barrels and heads.

[Peter C]

I kicked the E46 out on the road and pulled the Sierra out of the garage.

The car port keeps the rain off but also provides desirable shade on sunny days like today.

Plan was to flush out all the old coolant.

I put a hosepipe into the top of the radiator, which caused a lot of mucky coolant to drain out from the thermostat outlet.

By putting the hosepipe into the overflow pipe, more mucky stuff came out from the thermostat outlet and the top of the radiator.

I repeated this process until fresh water was coming out of every orifice.

The stained header tank will be soaked in vinegar overnight. Should look fresher in the morning.

As our postman is taking the piss by not turning up for a third day in a row, the thermostat housing gasket hasn't arrived so I can't reassemble the cooling system.

Instead, I cracked on with installation of the refurbished brake master cylinder, which arrived this morning (via a courier).

Re-fitting it was a doddle.

I got the Sierra up in the air and removed all four wheels and loosened all four bleed nipples. 

As we have friends and family over this weekend, chances are that my faithful assistant (my wife) and I will not have time to bleed the brakes until early next week.

Not to worry, the weather forecast for next week is gash.

 

 

[egg]

Wow, that refurb has transformed it.

[Peter C]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Wow, that refurb has transformed it.

£,£££

[Peter C]

I ❤️ my Ford.

[N19]

It's a fantastic car, really enjoying this thread.

Maybe could invest in one of those one-man bleeders? I bought one as it got very boring trying to arrange for a friend or neighbour to pop down to help with bleeding bakes.

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, N19 said:

Maybe could invest in one of those one-man bleeders

He's already paying for a wife, ffs!

[Mally]

On 08/05/2024 at 11:55, Joey spud said:

It wouldn't hurt to check if the housings mating face is maybe distorted.

Place it against a flat surface like a window pane and have a look.

Back many years ago when I had two stroke bikes I would use a sheet of window glass and grinding paste to reface the mounting surfaces of their barrels and heads.

Brings back memories of the late, great, Dave numbers.

Who did a similar job with a Ford Ranger cylinder head before his return trip from Scotland to France, after his collection broke down  in the Birmingham area.

[MJK 24]

I moved two fancy pants Sierra Ghia, yesterday.  

I’m addition to having AC, one had the fanciest Ford radio that I’d only ever seen before in brochures.  Never in real life!