Fleet shuffling - What to sell, what to keep?

[SiC]

The maximum amount of cars I can own is 6. N+1 theory (i.e. one more than maximum) says that the 7 cars I currently own, is the perfect amount for me.

However I want a Spitfire. No point debating with me on the merits of them (some say none) but I want one. I've mentioned the reasons why a few times so I won't bore you the full details. TL;DR is around the time I started really getting interested in cars (rather than just planes) I was 18 and went round the Haynes museum. Decided there I wanted a BGT, Midget or Spitfire. I'm in the lucky position (probably not forever) that I can own all three. The first two are ticked off (Midget still needs finishing) so just need the third.

But that means I need to sell something to make room. Two in storage, two in the garage and two on the drive is enough. My funds aren't unlimited and I have a lot tied up in cars. The question is which one.

As usual with my threads, this will almost certainly end up as a buying/running thread soon enough. Just this time a Spitfire.

So what is currently in the fleet and their status?

1963 Rover P4 110

Last in. Running and driving just fine.

 

1968 MG Midget

Currently it doesn't look like this (see further photo below in the garage) but I'm still plodding on with restoration. I have enjoyed doing the bodywork on this.

 

1974 Dolomite Sprint

This is slowly being consumed by boxes and car parts. I really want to get this back on the road but enthusiasm has dwindled. A right pain to work on and panels are non existent or very expensive. Just ask Gingernutz/Captain70 how much they enjoyed fixing the green Dolomite up.

An awful lot of work still needs to be done but some of it could potentially be deferred if I wanted to get it on the road sooner.

I haven't done anything on this for at least 2 years now.

But it's the coolest car I own (imo) and will be fantastic once done.

 

1974 MGB GT

I've not had it out this year but intend to. I think I've owned this for nearly 6 years now and the longest I've ever owned a car. My first classic and one of the three that I've always wanted.

I don't think I've got bored of it yet.

 

2000 Porsche Boxster

I've had this for four years now. I did contemplate selling it but once I jumped back in, I realised that was a silly thing to think about. Maybe this is my last season with it.

 

2003 Audi TT

For a long time I hated TTs. The funny thing is, I still don't particularly love them now.

However this car literally does everything I need in a car. Cheap to buy, fast enough to overtake with ease, reasonable on fuel, handles well enough and comfortable on long journeys. Bodywork is reasonable but as this photo shows, it gets doors smashed in by people parking too close and not giving a damn about other peoples cars. A good reason why I could never own a really expensive new car.

If I had to get rid of all my cars for whatever reason, this is the one I'd keep.

 

2015 Honda Civic Tourer

The most expensive car I've ever bought. Not too happy about it but it keeps Mrs SiC happy. Technically it's her car, even though I pay the loan on it.

Non mover as I don't want a divorce. It's only here for completeness.

 

The question is, which one(s) would you keep and which would go?

[SiC]

My current thinking:

My head says Dolomite but my heart says keep. Going by a recently sold one on eBay for £4600, I should be able to fetch similar if I put it back together again (windscreen in/interior in/headlights back on)

P4 would naturally be the leaver as Last In but I don't feel I've had all the fun out of it. Very different to my other cars, so it does keep me engaged because of that. Also it fully drives and works. Would be an easy car to sell as it works.

[sdkrc]

This would be my hit list:

1. 68 midget

2. TT

3. Dolly sprint 

4. Cat

The Boxter does everything the TT can do but better. The real question is, if you cull 2, what other cool shit could you get? I'd like to see an American in the mix. Something that doesn't justify love or care and is crap.

[SiC]

1 hour ago, sdkrc said:

4. Cat

He's a stray who lives in our garden that I've named Frank. Just wandering around doing Frank stuff - like causing mayhem by pestering the local neighbourhood cats. Our cat tolerates him but rather he wasn't around sometimes.

1 hour ago, sdkrc said:

The Boxter does everything the TT can do but better. The real question is, if you cull 2, what other cool shit could you get? I'd like to see an American in the mix. Something that doesn't justify love or care and is crap.

TT is better in winter with the quattro and traction control. Also has cruise control retrofitted now and the Boxster is more hassle to do so. Also Boxster isn't Bristol Clean Air Zone complaint (so £9 to go in) and it's a bit of a pain.

I'd love an American especially a 'stang but expensive and many yank cars don't fit in the garage or storage. Also I'd need to uprate all my lifting gear. Maybe in the future once I've got this trio out of the system. 

[Matty]

I'd let the Dolomite go. Smart as they are, it's the furthest from being a going concern. I know you like the work, but that's too many plates in the air. P4 as well now you've had a do at it. Then what you have is:

Midget

Bgt

Spitfire

Boxster

TT.

Perfect chronological sports car fleet thru the ages

[Bren]

P4 and Dolly. Nothing saps enthusiasm more than a car in bits.

[adw1977]

7 hours ago, SiC said:

1974 Dolomite Sprint

I haven't done anything on this for at least 2 years now.

I think this might be your answer.

[Joey spud]

I have to agree the Dolomite would be a bridge too far for me.

If it was loosely put back together would you get most of your money back on it ?

There's no shame in bailing out on a project.

Run the P4 untill early Summer season and move it on and maybe it'll wipe its face too.

[barrett]

I know you prefer working on old cars to driving them (so it seems) so perhaps a bit counterproductive, but would it be sensible to farm out some or all of the bodywork on the Dolomite to a professional? Then you can do the 'fun' bit of putting it all back together to make it into a car again, drive round in it for a bit and sell it for top dollar as a sound, running, presntable example? I think it's probably the only one of your cars which makes financial sense to pay somebody else to do the work, as prices for mint ones seem to have gone crazy recently.

This will free up some garage space so you can keep plugging away at the Spridget, keep the Rover in the garage and use that as your old car for the Summer. Sell Rover next Spring, drive Dolomite for a bit. Then sell that and buy a really nice Spitfire (and probably have a bit of cash leftover to paint the Spridget). You should end up with BGT, Spridget and Spitfire all on the road at the same time.

[SiC]

4 hours ago, Joey spud said:

If it was loosely put back together would you get most of your money back on it ?

This ended recently

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145035453149

I don't think mine is too different in condition. At least the bad bits are obvious from being cleaned up rather than one poke away from being far worse. 

I paid £2750 for mine about 3 (or is it 4?) years ago and I haven't spent much on parts. Mostly been sheet metal that I've shaped. Part of the reason why I got fed up with it as everything needed to be fabricated. Even extremely expensive panels needed reworking as they were a terrible fit. Midget on the other hand has dirt cheap panels that just fit. This makes it so much more enjoyable to restore. 

[SiC]

4 hours ago, barrett said:

but would it be sensible to farm out some or all of the bodywork on the Dolomite to a professional?

I have considered this. However I reckon I'd need to spend at least £5k, maybe £10k sorting the bodywork. It'll need paint afterwards too. Then mechanically needing going through too. It was MOT'd when I bought it but it's just sat since then. 

That's a lot of dough to pump in and hope to get back. Then also trusting a professional won't bodge it. 

There has been a lot of talk on the Dolomite groups about Chris Earl and Savage rebuilds. They were a Dolomite specialist restorer, except they did an awful job and ended going tits up. A few owners had great fun* trying to get back what was left of their cars. 

For example...

That chap was on Wheeler Dealers recently when they did a Dolomite restoration. Apparently he said that he was totally trustworthy to Brewer 🤣

Then I've watched Charles Ware restoration go broke and the fight so many had to get their cars back. The company then phenioxed and the parts side fall over.

I could buy a nice restored one. But even then you have to be careful. Too easily bodged and hidden. Or sometimes not even that, like this chap found after spending a lot of money on a MK1 Mini sight unseen. Some of the work it had done was a new floor and sills.

Some close up of that restoration work...

 

Stuff like this makes me struggle to trust any restorer. I know there are good legit, hard working ones out there. But it's expensive, time consuming, stressful and risky when it's out of your hands. Then it becomes an open cheque book until it's done or your bank account is empty.

Lack of trust with others on my cars is why I DIY in the first place. Especially with classics and restoration. 

There are two garages nearish to me that I trust with my cars. One in Bristol that I've been using for years and who heartedly trust. Handily right near Moss (easy for parts) and I can walk into work from them too. Out of the two owners who both do the work, one owns + runs a Lancia Fulvia and the other a BMW 2002. Both know their way around old cars and sympathetic/sensible to them on MOTs. Other is Panhard65 and his workshop down in Wellington. He's just a bit further trek and can't drop the car off then totter into work. So requires a bit more planning on my side. 

Basically if I'm not doing the bodywork then its probably not going to get done while in my ownership. 

[sierraman]

I think there’s only one way with bodywork in this circumstance unless you have unlimited cash reserves and that’s to DIY it. That Mini sill looks fucking awful to even the untrained eye though. Big question is... how much do you like welding and what is your wife’s thoughts on you spending every waking hour welding the fucker back up? 

[Vimesy]

To my mind, sell the Dolomite.

If your buying a Spitfire, then great - there's nothing that I haven't been able to buy for mine.

With a wide selection of companies selling Spit bits, it'd be a far easier job to get your teeth into and maybe in a couple of years buy a better Dolomite.

 

[SiC]

So today I test drove a Spitfire. It was ace. I want need it. 

I need to sell a car and the Dolomite is the chosen one as it makes the most sense. Highest value, most amount of work till a driver. I posted up on the Dolomite FB page and got a bit of a mixed response about values. That said, at the bottom end it's still about what I paid. If I split the spares then I can recoup most costs. 

I put some pictures up of it and admittedly not the most flattering. Probably why I didn't get the best response. Plus it's Facebook.

 

While scrolling through, I saw this photo. Pre mass poking. I said to myself "why did I have to poke and ruin it so much"

 

For me to put the Spitfire somewhere I have to clear the decks. To do this I need to get the Dolomite on the drive and sort it out. Headlight in, windscreen in, interior fully and get it running. 

This evening I went out to the garage to sort it. While I was there I thought I'd better put up an advert for the P4 as if that did sell, it would be less work to sell than the Dolomite. Even though the Dolomite should fetch more. 

Currently the Dolomite is penned in with parts from different cars. So this needed all clearing off so I could start sorting it.

 

I cleared all the Midget parts out of the way and put the c-pillar trim on.

 

I looked at the almost done wheel arch repair and thought "hmm. I sloshed some filler on the P4 and it didn't take too long while looking almost presentable. I have nothing to lose if I try on here"

With that thought, this happened.

 

Not finished of course but being in the garage, I can leave it without the elements mucking it up. It needs a few more sand/filler/sand/filler cycles but it won't take much. Yes the bottom arch needs fixing in but that's pretty see straightforward.

I stepped back and thought, this is a friggin cool car. Sometimes being in the presence of something can make your mind change. 

It suddenly clicked.

Yes the P4 is a great car. It is lovely to drive, it's big and imposing, it fully works (rare for me!) and it's interesting.

But driving that Spitfire reminded me of something. I love sports cars. The Dolomite Sprint is a sports saloon. It looks cool, it's fast, it's fun to drive and also interesting. 

So why am I getting rid of it? Because it needs a lot of work? 

Yes it does. However! I've only poked one side. Let's get the driver's side all done and drive it for a bit. The work on the P4 has proved I can do it reasonably quickly. I just need to strongly follow the motto of "better done than perfect". In terms of condition, it's been stored in a garage for the last 3+ years, and it's not deteriorated that much as it hasn't been exposed to elements. Sort the driver's side and it'll probably pass an MOT just fine again even.

So the plan: (as always, subject to change)

Spitfire incoming

P4 outgoing

Dolomite to storage for a bit so I can knuckle down on the Midget. I'll need to have a sort out down there to make room as Mrs SiC is less than impressed with this spares pile in the garden.

Garage space is freed up with the Dolomite in storage to allow me to use the MGB more and swap around with the Spitfire over this spring/summer period.

Boxster and TT won't be able to go into storage and will have to live on the drive. That's okay as they're modern and won't deteriorate like classics being exposed to elements. Plus we're coming to summer soon anyway. 

 

Immediate steps:

 - Make a serious effort to sell the P4. That includes sorting the paint on the repaired wing.

 - Drive the P4 to a classic meet this weekend (weather dependent). This should fulfil most of my needs with the P4.

 - Get the Dolomite out of the garage this weekend and put it together more. Mostly as this makes it easier to move and crucially is a mojo booster if it's mostly in one piece again. 

 - Find someone to transport it the short distance to storage. I possibly could drive it there but I don't want to push my luck too much!

 - Get the Spitfire home

 - Have some classic motoring fun.

 

Game on.

[Matty]

So, have you bought it already then?

[Asimo]

20 minutes ago, Matty said:

So, have you bought  dismantled it already then?

FTFY

[SiC]

8 hours ago, SiC said:

(as always, subject to change)

When you've been with someone for 20 years, you pick up on little signs. I was speaking to Mrs SiC this morning about the plan I had in my mind.

"I put the Rover up for sale last night"

At that point my spider senses tingled that her facial expressions signaled this wasn't a good start to the conversation. I knew she liked the idea of selling the Dolomite as it hadn't moved or worked on for ages and I'd get rid of all the scrap in the garden. 

Thinking quickly on my feet, I quickly replied with

"As I need to get the Dolomite for sale and hopefully that will be done this weekend. But the P4 is easy to sell and the Dolomite is more work to, so if the P4 goes first then it gives me time to sort the Dolomite and get more money for it"

*breath*

Her face lightened up from the scowl that was originally forming started to clear.

"Right" was the softened version of the original response she was intending to say.

I still want to keep the Dolomite and get it to a road usable state (I.e. not necessarily fully restored). If the P4 goes first then that makes it easier to justify keeping the Dolomite. 

So the plan is to keep the P4 for sale and put the Dolomite up potentially after this weekend if I get a chance to fully prep it for sale. 

Tbh it sounds a better plan, so let's pretend that what I was doing all along anyway.

[SiC]

2 hours ago, Matty said:

So, have you bought it already then?

I don't like to admit it, but put me in front of something that I really want and especially have done for years then it's very much

 

[Matty]

I like your style 👍

[garbaldy]

I like this idea and have been thinking similar fleet thining thoughts myself.  Having well into double figures gets me  thinking this is just silly,

Problem 1 is I like them all 🙄

[SiC]

It looks better now it has eyes! Cars need to have lights otherwise they look odd. The far left is going to need welding for it to not fall out.

I don't think it's a bad project nor a shell in that bad a condition either.















I really want to get this Spitfire now but finding it really frustrating trying to sell stuff. Good job I don't have a big barn otherwise I don't think I'd ever sell!

[SiC]

A walk and talk video

 

 

[Matty]

I would imagine that the advantage to a potential buyer would be the ability to assess exactly what's needed to complete. Much easier than a fully assembled project car.

[skoda_fan]

What a dilemma, but one in which we've all found ourselves. Personally I'd keep the Rover, especially as it's running fine, but then I just love them. Someone on here said the ideal number of cars to own is one more than you already have. It's very hard to get rid of stuff (I've just sold my SLK and have chronic seller's remorse already) but we all have these head vs heart moments. Whatever happens, good luck with getting the dream Spitfire.