Leyland Engine shite.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

As the Leyland TL11\O. 680 remains the largest engine to power a vehicle I've driven on the road, I thought it would be a good idea to kick off a thread about the O. 600 and O. 680 family of engines. 

Born in 1948 and in production (under licence) it seems until 1997!

https://gazeo.pl/informacje/wiadomosci/Mielec-Diesel-Gaz-producent-gazowych-autobusow,wiadomosc,5560.html

Would be interested in your recollections! I've driven vehicles with the '600, 680 and TL11 power units... 

👍😎

Edited October 9, 2021 by Leyland Worldmaster
Photos from my library...

[sierraman]

Wasn’t this the engine with a one piece block and head? 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

3 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Wasn’t this the engine with a one piece block and head? 

No, that is the "Headless Wonder" which is the 500 Series! I'll edit and put a couple of pictures from the brochure... 👍 

[sierraman]

Have you a shot of the block/head assembly 

[Dyslexic Viking]

Has no personal experience with the engine but knows that the 0.680 engine was produced on license together with the smaller 6.5 liter engine in Poland and was used in Bizon combine harvesters, among other things. SW 680 is the 0.680 11 liters. SW 400 is the 6.5 Liters.

Bizon Z056 SW 400 engine

Bizon Z060 SW680 engine

And Bizon had several other models as well. So these Leyland engines have helped feed millions of people over the years.

[UltraWomble]

Wasnt this available as vertical and horizontal set ups?

[83C]

Yes, the O.680 and TL could be either horizontal or vertical depending on application. My Tiger has a horizontal TL11.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

11 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Have you a shot of the block/head assembly 

I'll try and find my other brochure; it's gone MIA! 🤦‍♂️

[big_al_granvia]

the 680 was a very popular fitment in diesel railcars, not a bad lump but the aec was better when it behaved

[busmansholiday]

Driven most of the rubbish Leyland made. The 400, 600, 680 and the TL11. Give me an AEC 470, 505, 590, 691, 760 or the TL12 any day.

IIRC DAF licenced and developed the 600 in their trucks and buses and Ashok (BL India) also used that basic engine.

 

[big_al_granvia]

The 680 can't be that shite  look at the number of preserved buses and railcars that still have them and they still run. They are still being overhauled and new parts made. In preservation many have been modified 're cooling, fitting a electric kenlowe can opposed to the mechanical improves cooling bigtime

[Leyland Worldmaster]

57 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Driven most of the rubbish Leyland made. The 400, 600, 680 and the TL11. Give me an AEC 470, 505, 590, 691, 760 or the TL12 any day.

IIRC DAF licenced and developed the 600 in their trucks and buses and Ashok (BL India) also used that basic engine.

 

You missed out the AEC engine in the RT. Can't remember it's code... 😁

[LightBulbFun]

54 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

You missed out the AEC engine in the RT. Can't remember it's code... 😁

AEC A185 in the "Pre War" RT's and AEC A204 in the postwar RT's I Think  (also missed out was the AV690 used in the RCL and RMA's unless thats the same as the AV691?)

but I have never been able to solidly confirm that (pretty much everyone I have asked in person goes "errr Im not sure, its always just been called the RT engine!")

 

and to the topic of the thread, there was of course the RTL  I think those used the O.600 but did that really mean they shared an engine with Leyland engined RMs? ( @Yoss )

[bigstraight6]

I worked in a parts department of a Leyland DAF dealer back in the late 80’s early 90’s and the workshop always seemed to be filled with DAF’s with serious engine oil leaks or needing a rebuild, albeit the 825 engine as opposed to the 1160. It was a rare occurrence to see a Leyland TL11 engine in for anything other than servicing, we also had a customer who was still running a number of Scammell Routeman tippers and they were very robust and engine issues were unheard of.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

1 hour ago, bigstraight6 said:

I worked in a parts department of a Leyland DAF dealer back in the late 80’s early 90’s and the workshop always seemed to be filled with DAF’s with serious engine oil leaks or needing a rebuild, albeit the 825 engine as opposed to the 1160. It was a rare occurrence to see a Leyland TL11 engine in for anything other than servicing, we also had a customer who was still running a number of Scammell Routeman tippers and they were very robust and engine issues were unheard of.

Good to hear this; loads of people seem to slag the Leyland engines off; if they were that bad, nobody would have opted to build them under licence! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

AEC A185 in the "Pre War" RT's and AEC A204 in the postwar RT's I Think  (also missed out was the AV690 used in the RCL and RMA's unless thats the same as the AV691?)

but I have never been able to solidly confirm that (pretty much everyone I have asked in person goes "errr Im not sure, its always just been called the RT engine!")

 

and to the topic of the thread, there was of course the RTL  I think those used the O.600 but did that really mean they shared an engine with Leyland engined RMs? ( @Yoss )

That's the one; just remembered A204 is on the Engine Block somewhere on 1702!😎😎😎

[83C]

Have some TL11 roar to enjoy.

 

[Yoss]

Thanks for the heads up @LightBulbFun. I'm not sure either if the O.600 in the RTL is the same as the the RM either. I wouldn't have thought it was a straight swap even if the main block was the same. Most of the ancillaries would need swapping.

Funnily enough, despite owning an O.600 for about twenty of the last thirty years I don't really have any anecdotes. The first time we sold it was because it needed an engine rebuild and the second time I owned it nothing went wrong. 

From an enthusiast point of view the Leyland was more interesting in a Routemaster but as@busmansholiday says the AEC was better. It was smoother, quieter and better engineered. And I say that as a (ex) Leyland owner.

A friend of mine has made a business out of maintaining other people's RMs. He bought his first RM at the age of 16. It was, a heavily cannibalised scrapper that he slowly rebuilt. This was mainly because that was all he could afford and you could still get spares relatively cheaply, trips to Barnsley would still produce useful parts. He found an AV690 that came from the RAF! It was used as a static generator. He had to swap all sorts over to make it fit in a bus but it went in and by god that is a lovely bus to drive.

Anyway he now works on other people's buses for a living and he hates the Leylands. He has given me a list of reasons why the AEC is better, most of which I forget. One was the fuel return pipes from the injectors are inside the rocker cover so if one breaks it pumps diesel into the oil. And the rocker covers have no gaskets which is why they leak. 

[Yoss]

2 hours ago, bigstraight6 said:

I worked in a parts department of a Leyland DAF dealer back in the late 80’s early 90’s and the workshop always seemed to be filled with DAF’s with serious engine oil leaks or needing a rebuild, albeit the 825 engine as opposed to the 1160. It was a rare occurrence to see a Leyland TL11 engine in for anything other than servicing, we also had a customer who was still running a number of Scammell Routeman tippers and they were very robust and engine issues were unheard of.

Liked for mention of Scammell Routeman. I love those. Designed by Michelotti of course along with the Leyland National and most of the post war Triumph range. There aren't many lorries designed by a famous Italian design house. 

[busmansholiday]

19 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

also missed out was the AV690 used in the RCL and RMA's unless thats the same as the AV691

AV690 was the development of the AV590. The AV 691 is a different engine that was developed into the AV760 and ultimately the TL12 (used in the Marathon lorry). Don't forget AEC developed a V8 diesel used in the rear engined Sabre prototype (and yes, I've been on it!). 

As I'm shortly to tick the box on my license renewal that says "stick it, I've had enough", oh for the days of being able to put a 760 engined, ZF boxed Reliance into 6th (at about 75mph) and watching the Speedo wedge itself into "Smiths MPH" territory as you waved goodbye to a National Travel West (ie Ribble) Leopard in the days when the outside lane of the M1 was reserved for E Type jags and AEC engined (and the BMMO C5/6) National Express coaches. 

 

[Yoss]

This reminded me of what I have upstairs. These came out of a skip on my old delivery. Best thing I've ever found in a skip. 

This looks like a date. 

All three books seem to start the same but there are differences. They are all different thicknesses for a start. 

They have details of of both O.600 and O.680.

This shows the fuel return pipe inside the rocker covers that I mentioned. 

Fuel pumps. Mine looked something like this but not quite. It was CAV but probably a bit newer. 

The thing to the left of the fuel pump looks like an air compressor. Mine definitely wasn't there, it was under the bus. 

Details here of a power steering pump. Can't have been an option that many took up in 1947. Again, it was on the other side on the RM. If it was where it was in this picture it would be impossible to get to. 

And there's even some colour bits showing the flow of something or other. 

 

One book even has a gearbox in it (like I say they are all different thicknesses). 

There's lots of nice pictures in here and lots of technical stuff that goes straight over my head. 

[Yoss]

But that's not all I found in this skip. I can't remember what first caught my eye, it may have been the Britool catalogue but something caused me to rummage deeper and here's what I came out with. 

Napier turbo blowers. 

 

Paxman Ventura

Another Paxman book. 

Some Mirlees stuff with Air Ministry contract number. 

 

But the best book, for me, is this. I literally jumped when I saw the English Electric typeface. 

It's not big or picture heavy and it's part 2 and I couldn't find part 1 but it is still a manual for the English Electric 16 cylinder engine as used in various forms in  British Rail class 40 and 50. I do love a class 50.

Cylinder head. They have a separate head for every cylinder. 

Danger! 

 

 

Whilst standing there rummaging through this skip the lady who lived there came out and asked if she could help. I showed her a couple of the manuals that I'd found at this point and how wonderful I thought they were and that I owned a bus with an engine that this manual covered. She was pleased I liked them and said carry on.

That delivery wasn't too far from the office so I had one of those big four wheel trolleys that look like an old pram that you must have seen about. Luckily it was quite near the end of my delivery so I loaded the front of my trolley up with all these manuals. When I got back to the office I showed a few other posties what I'd found. The main reaction was bemusement, they couldn't really comprehend that this was the best thing I'd ever found. 

A couple of weeks later the lady in the house called me in and through to the garage and said 'is this any use to you?' A 25  litre drum of anti freeze! This wouldn't fit in the trolley so I had to pop back in the car on the way home. It turned out to be ready mixed not neat but even so it lasted a while. Very useful when you have a bus that doesn't have a no loss system and needs topping up every time you go out. 

 

[Datsuncog]

On 10/10/2021 at 11:26 AM, Yoss said:

There aren't many lorries designed by a famous Italian design house. 

Dodge K Series, wasn't that penned by Ghia?

[Yoss]

34 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Dodge K Series, wasn't that penned by Ghia?

Well I never knew that. That's quite a handsome beast too isn't it. 

[sierraman]

2 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

Dodge K Series, wasn't that penned by Ghia?

Forever ingrained in my memory from being a kid as it was the Matchbox Dodge Stake Truck

[Vantman]

3 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

Dodge K Series, wasn't that penned by Ghia?

I ran one of these on tarmac deliveries, a 4 wheeler K1050? with Perkins 6.354 and a two speed axle,it went 'very well'😀.

[Inspector Morose]

[Inspector Morose]

[Inspector Morose]