Is there any such thing as 'overly modern' or 'overly old' when it comes to daily use?

[The_Equalizer]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:10 AM, Bren said:

My parents were one of millions caught up in the high interest rates of 1990 (15%) - I remember the for sale sign going up in the front garden. Waiting for people to knock on the door puts you off ever having too much debt - it did with me.

I was still at school, but that is indelibly inked in my mind. The most I have ever owed was a £10 to Lloyds Bank and that was an accident. Properly hate debt.

As for the cars, I'm in the late 90s, early 2000s gang. While going to collect the kids today I thought my CLK was perfect as it sat on the motorway nudging the limit without any fuss. So much so, I gave it a little pat on the dash.

Does make me wonder what will happen in say 10 years time. That said, the internet makes finding a solution to any problem infinitely easier.

[Zelandeth]

The world is changing too which alters the picture.  The small independent motor factor who either has one of what you need sitting somewhere or knows who will or at the very least knows someone who's got a breaker buried at the back of a field somewhere which will likely yield what you need are a dying breed.

I seriously miss the little parts store across the road from the school in Turriff.  See the comments above, if they didn't have it they'd know *someone* who would.

My local "go to" factor down here are great for what they are, generally give me trade prices and will do everything they *can* to help...but at the end of the day if their computer can't find it they're stuck.  There's no real background end-to-end knowledge there or network of folks who know folks in each of the related fields.  At the end of the day, they're owned by one of the big chains and it does show.

[Longbridge Apologist]

I know I started a thread on it before but perhaps the solution is somehow getting the hacking community onto the ECU/electronics side. I got a company in Cowes to clone a borked by water Bavarian Sierra ECU onto a working one, which was £380 compared to 1800 for a new one and programming. In work we've got brilliant Systems Engineers who will do proper electronics solder by solder repairs on everything.

Is the future having this skill in the arsenal as well as the swapping of a hubnut?

I mean every one didn't give up with the introduction of the 12v loom after the 6v or the injection after the carb?

[chaseracer]

As the 'market' evolves, providers will develop to service it.  Such is the current* theory.

* sorry

[maxxo]

if I absolutely needed a car for 50k a year for work I'd probably get something brand new with a warranty 

it all depends on what you want, if you want zero faff and something a bit boring then a modern is the way to go

avoid the 5-10 year old period 

it's always risky buying a car, I myself am considering buying a brand new car (toyota prius) at some point in the next few years just to function as an car and to take miles off the C5 as parts get harder to find

[TheOtherStu]

I'm not sure modern is necessarily boring. I mean, there are some great cars out there that actually evoke a bit of fun, because they handle so much better than some of the cars of yesteryear.
I'm very much in both camps. We have a Fiat shitter which for some reason the wife adores, even though it's ineherently difficult to drive at times. I'm also running a couple of early 2000s MR2s which, quite honestly, are piss easy to fix, despite being relatively modern.

I'd think nothing of running something older.

But I'm fortunately at the stage of my career and life where I can afford to run a modern car in warranty (yes, it's a company car, but I could easily opt out).  When you're doing a 350 mile road trip for work, it's nice to have heated seats, auto lights and wipers. Android auto and Apple Play, so I can listen to a podcast rather than some shite advert laden music station playing some dance nonsense. I also don't want to feel like I'm fighting the car.

Whilst at the same time, because it has DAB, I can pick and choose the kind of music I want to listen to. Or hook up spotify (using my voice and not having to touch anything) without listening to the same CD or tape over and over (which, whilst it's fine under normal day-to-day, on a 6-8 hour drive, not so much).

And obviously, we've talked about reliability and warranty to death, but it does have to be considered.

And yes, I've done a 300 mile trip in the MR2. I'd not recommend it. It's definitely not a grand tourer.

[sierraman]

2 hours ago, maxxo said:

if I absolutely needed a car for 50k a year for work I'd probably get something brand new with a warranty 

it all depends on what you want, if you want zero faff and something a bit boring then a modern is the way to go

avoid the 5-10 year old period 

it's always risky buying a car, I myself am considering buying a brand new car (toyota prius) at some point in the next few years just to function as an car and to take miles off the C5 as parts get harder to find

If I was driving 50k a year commuting to work I’d be having a word with myself. A life of sitting on the phone to your family back home in Michaelwood Services eating a Greggs Pasty at 7pm at night sounds like a load of shit. 

I knew a bloke I once worked with that took a job where the commute was from south of Chesterfield to Wetherby in Leeds in what would be a 9-5 job, the wage was something like 30k, so not exceptionally well paid but involved probably £100 a week diesel and a 2 hour journey there and 2 hours back. By the time he’d fucked about he might as well have got a job in Aldi round the corner.

[garethj]

I’ve played this game for years doing 15-20k miles a year and it’s not hard, just limits your choices a bit.  However piling those miles on a new car will hit depreciation massively too.

Just recently I’ve had a 1999 Volvo V70 diesel (50mpg), a 2005 Honda Civic petrol (42mpg), a 2006 Kia ceed diesel (55 mpg) and a 2006 Toyota RAV4 diesel (48mpg)

None have ever broken down, fuel bills have been ok, they’re all comfortable and effortless to drive and I fitted Bluetooth for podcasts and bangin choons from my phone.

If I’d chosen other cars of this age I might have been chasing breakdowns and MoT failz but the ownership experience has been easy and depreciation has been as small as possible.

[Longbridge Apologist]

Just been in a local Fwoooorrd dealer and they didn’t even bother doing me a PCP quote as they’ve all been told they cannot take anymore new Fiesta orders until further notice.

The semiconductor crisis screw turns even tighter!

[PrinceRupert]

5 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

I'm not sure modern is necessarily boring. I mean, there are some great cars out there that actually evoke a bit of fun, because they handle so much better than some of the cars of yesteryear.
I'm very much in both camps. We have a Fiat shitter which for some reason the wife adores, even though it's ineherently difficult to drive at times. I'm also running a couple of early 2000s MR2s which, quite honestly, are piss easy to fix, despite being relatively modern.

I'd think nothing of running something older.

But I'm fortunately at the stage of my career and life where I can afford to run a modern car in warranty (yes, it's a company car, but I could easily opt out).  When you're doing a 350 mile road trip for work, it's nice to have heated seats, auto lights and wipers. Android auto and Apple Play, so I can listen to a podcast rather than some shite advert laden music station playing some dance nonsense. I also don't want to feel like I'm fighting the car.

Whilst at the same time, because it has DAB, I can pick and choose the kind of music I want to listen to. Or hook up spotify (using my voice and not having to touch anything) without listening to the same CD or tape over and over (which, whilst it's fine under normal day-to-day, on a 6-8 hour drive, not so much).

And obviously, we've talked about reliability and warranty to death, but it does have to be considered.

And yes, I've done a 300 mile trip in the MR2. I'd not recommend it. It's definitely not a grand tourer.

I mean ICE is not a great reason for a new car.  My 30yo Peugeot and 21yo TVR both have perfectly good bluetooth enabled stereos that cost very little to install (20 quid ebay job on 205 and 100 quid philips job on tvr).  The 600 quid 75 has heated seats, cruise etc. Not sure auto wipers or lights are that important.

 

Of course there are plenty of other reasons a modern car is good.

[Spurious]

Some cars it's not an option to fit a head unit with all the modern bells and whistles. 

Lots of cars from the 2000s had integrated ICE which if you tried to pull out and use a DIN unit either wouldn't work or look entirely naff.  

 

[PrinceRupert]

2 hours ago, Spurious said:

Some cars it's not an option to fit a head unit with all the modern bells and whistles. 

Lots of cars from the 2000s had integrated ICE which if you tried to pull out and use a DIN unit either wouldn't work or look entirely naff.  

 

That's true I still rely on CDs with the 75 ... 

[dollywobbler]

I must admit, I have been wondering about Daily Shite of late, mostly because I have an entire fleet of duffers at the moment. Maybe buying a huge Aussie Ford with almost 200,000 miles on it and no UK parts or dealer support was a daft idea after all...

 

[garethj]

2 hours ago, Spurious said:

Some cars it's not an option to fit a head unit with all the modern bells and whistles. 

Lots of cars from the 2000s had integrated ICE which if you tried to pull out and use a DIN unit either wouldn't work or look entirely naff.  

 

There are plenty where you can get adapters which includes dashboard plastics too.

I’m in my car for at least an hour and a half each day and have a Bluetooth module plugged into the aux or CD changer.  Easy peasy and not expensive.  Cars newer than that usually have Bluetooth built in anyway 

[TheOtherStu]

On 9/8/2021 at 7:17 PM, garethj said:

There are plenty where you can get adapters which includes dashboard plastics too.

I’m in my car for at least an hour and a half each day and have a Bluetooth module plugged into the aux or CD changer.  Easy peasy and not expensive.  Cars newer than that usually have Bluetooth built in anyway 

That's kinda my point. It's a sticky plaster.

Having all the buttons on the steering wheel, a proper DAB aerial (and believe me, trying to find one for the MR2 that actually works properly is an absolute horror show - I'm up to £100 antennas now).

And it's not just having bluetooth on my phone connected, the BMW uses the apps on the phone natively through the head unit. A button on my steering wheel and I can talk to it and tell it what I want to hear. I can tell it a destination without having to go anywhere near my phone (which is usually in my pocket or on the passenger seat.

I suppose getting 190 miles to the gallon is also a good reason to run it (we have free chargers at work, although it costs 76p to charge at home, but I get most of the way on my 20 odd mile commute) 🤣

[garethj]

2 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

That's kinda my point. It's a sticky plaster.

Having all the buttons on the steering wheel, a proper DAB aerial (and believe me, trying to find one for the MR2 that actually works properly is an absolute horror show - I'm up to £100 antennas now).

And it's not just having bluetooth on my phone connected, the BMW uses the apps on the phone natively through the head unit. A button on my steering wheel and I can talk to it and tell it what I want to hear. I can tell it a destination without having to go anywhere near my phone (which is usually in my pocket or on the passenger seat.

I suppose getting 190 miles to the gallon is also a good reason to run it (we have free chargers at work, although it costs 76p to charge at home, but I get most of the way on my 20 odd mile commute) 🤣

I must be still missing some subtlety here…

DAB radio I never use because I can stream any radio station in the world from my phone.  Data is cheap.

I don’t need a button on the steering wheel because I use the voice commands.  It’s absolutely flippin brilliant these days, I hardly ever write text messages, just talk at the phone.

[TheOtherStu]

7 minutes ago, garethj said:

I must be still missing some subtlety here…

DAB radio I never use because I can stream any radio station in the world from my phone.  Data is cheap.

I don’t need a button on the steering wheel because I use the voice commands.  It’s absolutely flippin brilliant these days, I hardly ever write text messages, just talk at the phone.

Data doesn't always work everywhere. I spend a lot of time in Norfolk. It's quite backward there 🤣

[garethj]

2 hours ago, TheOtherStu said:

Data doesn't always work everywhere. I spend a lot of time in Norfolk. It's quite backward there 🤣

High six😀

Does DAB work there?  You might have better luck with Radio Luxembourg on medium wave

[iainrcz]

I've never had a car with DAB. I've had courtesy cars with it, I'm not sure I'm missing out.

[Liggle]

7 hours ago, iainrcz said:

I've never had a car with DAB. I've had courtesy cars with it, I'm not sure I'm missing out.

Planet Rock, where rock lives 

[iainrcz]

24 minutes ago, Liggle said:

Planet Rock, where rock lives 

That's about the only station I'd listen to.

[Liggle]

Just now, iainrcz said:

That's about the only station I'd listen to.

Same here, and sometimes Panjab Radio by accident when my finger slips 

[iainrcz]

I love rock me, drowns out the silence in my life..

[brownnova]

When I had a modern it had a DAB… and that was pretty exclusively tuned to planet rock… Mrs B is less of a rock fan so we tend to compromise to Absolute radio these days if we’re doing stuff together…that’s on the cars with easy access to the phone.

Actual FM radio is dire though, no decent stations at all! The Mazda may be getting a cheap Chinese stereo for that reason. 

[Yoss]

I run a Favorit and a Felicia as dailys. Although me and Mrs Yoss work at the same place we don't do the same hours so both get used every day with no problems at all. There's certainly no spares issues yet, not for general service and mechanical items anyway. I also have a 1969 Triumph 1300 as a back up but I've never needed to use it. I mean I do occasionally take the Triumph to work but only because I want to, not out of necessity. 

The Favorit was top of the range in 1992 so it has a rev counter, sunroof, velour seats and door trim inserts, alloy wheels, front fog lights and a great big rubber boot spoiler. 

The Felicia is also top of the range but six years newer and in that time gained power steering, ABS, two airbags and pre tensioning seat belts, heated electric mirrors, anti roll bars and a removable plastic lunch box (about as useful as the spoiler on the Fav but all cars have their gimmicks don't they). Both have DAB radios fitted by me. 

I don't think you need more than that, everything else is just gimmicks. I don't need buttons on my steering wheel because I can easily reach the ones on the dashboard. Despite only being six years newer and based on the same underpinnings the Felicia feels far more modern and handles and brakes better than the Fav though the Fav is more fun but I wouldn't hesitate to jump in either and go anywhere. 

I'm planning on keeping both until I am forced by law to go electric. 

 

[Rust Collector]

I’ve only found one truly beneficial use of DAB radio: if your sales manager is daft enough to put his key into the key safe with the other stock and demos, you need to take his key and go to his car. Turn on the ignition, wait for the radio to kick in with Talk Sport. Go into the menu and find BBC Radio Asian Network. Save this to all 6 preset buttons on the radio. Turn the volume dial up to maximum. Turn the car off, and return the key to the key safe. If you’re a real bastard, then before turning the car off and returning the key you should also set his memory seat position so that it’s all the way at the front of the rails with the backrest pushed as far forwards as it goes, before returning it to a normal looking position. Await 4:55 with glee, pressing your face to the showroom glass waiting for the games to begin.

In my own cars I use Spotify on my phone and a Bluetooth cassette in the original head unit. For me, modern head units look out of place in old cars. Plus there’s something nostalgic and warming about that cassette tape hiss 😅

[Liggle]

7 hours ago, Yoss said:

90s spec stuff 

...

I don't think you need more than that, everything else is just gimmicks.

Air con and cruise control are essentials for anyone with a reasonable commute, especially if it involves UK motorways, in my opinion. I wasn't bothered by either for years until they made my ever increasing  commute much more pleasant. 

[New POD]

On 10/09/2021 at 13:33, iainrcz said:

I've never had a car with DAB. I've had courtesy cars with it, I'm not sure I'm missing out.

My new car has it. I'm finding that BBC6Music has a vibe I like. 

[BorniteIdentity]

Can a daily car be overly modern?  No.  Generally because modern cars are all on lease, don't go wrong and - when they do - simply go to the manufacturer's dealership for fixings.  

Can a daily car be overly old?  Probably.  Certainly in the winter.  I would frequently do 100 miles in a day in the Sierra and it never once minded.  I did miss things like decent lights (4.30am start) and a radio (company) but the car would have done it quite easily.  In the winter, I would drive it 5 miles up the road saying "what the fuck am I doing" as the screen misted up, the heater coughed and the moisture from the seat seeped into my jeans.

Frequently documented, I did 35-40k a year for a couple of years in my Avensis.  I was being paid ludicrously well (by anyone's standards) to do it and it allowed us to move house without selling and pay down the debt you accrue with four children.  I made sure I ate well and kept fit and was always home by 1815.  The Avensis was utterly perfect for the gig, I retrofitted a decent DAB radio with USB etc to the car in the space of 2 minutes (I got it free a the tip as someone chucked it away) and we just did it day in day out.  When you're doing that sort of mileage, even things like ease of service count - so a top facing oil filter, no under trays and a sump you can get to with the car on the ground all make life a tiny bit easier. 

I would say, at the moment, the sweet spot is 1998-2007.  And, with ULEZ refugees coming onto the market daily, there are some great options for a couple of weeks' pay.  

[HMC]

It’s all about expectations. What sort of use will it have? How many hours at the wheel and how many miles per week? What’s are the expectations of those that may also use/ be a passenger in the car? What are your expectations about maintenance and repair? Is the car to be binned when the mot is due? Are you also improving the condition of the car as you go? How many vehicles are around to take the strain when the vehicle in question is being sorted? 

A lot of questions. The only real answer is your expectations. That’s the difference between a brand new lease car or a £600 20 year old snotter. 

Yes it’s a woolly answer, but it’s that sort of question. Anything is possible, if you are realistic and flexible.