XM Fettling - Bubble Trouble

[wesacosa]

Not a happy day on the XM today.  Been using the car as my daily this year and done about 4000 fairly trouble free miles. However for the last couple of months its been a bit of a pain to start after leaving overnight. It fires first time but conks out after a second. Then takes a bit of cranking to get going.  General consensus was air getting in, likely from brittle leak off pipes.  However I took the intake manifold off for a better view and gave the priming bulb a few pumps and fuel started pissing out from underneath the pump, so looking like I have a pump leak somewhere.  Really not the news I was hoping for as I am struggling for time and motivation for big jobs at the moment, plus I can't bare the thought of messing around in the cambelt area again after the fun and games getting the belt done last year.  Not even sure how easy parts are to get hold of, and a pump rebuild is out of my comfort zone.   Have a big decision to make on the car now, I really like it but just not sure I can face more major surgery

[grogee]

Sorry to hear that @maxxo.

I suppose you should get your ducks in a row before making a big decision. 

1) How bad is it? Undriveable, or livable with for a bit? Is it dropping fuel while you drive? (Unpopular with motorcyclists)

2) How big is the job? Consider completely farmed out to £garage, or how about you rebuild at 2nd hand pump at your leisure?

3) What do the XM/Citroen nerd community have to say about this problem?

3) How good is the rest of the car? I think you know it pretty well by this stage, is it terminally rusty or ok?

4) How will you get to work or wherever you need to be without it? I'm guessing the C5 pez is still going ok. 

[wesacosa]

Wrong XM, @grogee .  This is my s2 not @maxxos lovely s1

Its liveable with at the moment as it always does start but I have to say I did notice diesel smells around the car for first time yesterday

Not sure how biga job it is yet, in the scheme of things its doable but just not a great winter job when Motivation is low and busy

rest of car is rather nice so its definitely not going to kill the car, just if I can be arsed at the moment or not!

[wesacosa]

oh, and I found out why the electric window never worked too 😂

[grogee]

I'm a blithering idiot, sorry @wesacosa and @maxxo.

How is fuel pump availability? I'm assuming that it's driven by the cam belt judging by what you said. 

I presume the electric window was discovered when you put in a new mech?

[wesacosa]

pump availability doesn't look great from the quick look I had. I think the seals can be replaced but probably not by a ham fisted oaf like me, and not sure if the parts are still available.  Will pose the question on the XM forums

Electric window never worked but it dropped into the door as I was driving yesterday so it provoked me into investigation.  Seems the cable snapped due to rust (common problem) but someone decided to keep pressing the switch until the cable wrapped itself into the winding mechanisms and presumably seized the motor . Finding replacement drivers side on the later XMs is like rocking horse shit as they all break .

[jamescarruthers]

20 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

 

Electric window never worked but it dropped into the door as I was driving yesterday so it provoked me into investigation.  Seems the cable snapped due to rust (common problem) but someone decided to keep pressing the switch until the cable wrapped itself into the winding mechanisms and presumably seized the motor . Finding replacement drivers side on the later XMs is like rocking horse shit as they all break .

I seem to remember the Citroen dealer sold me a repair kit a few years ago for mine. However, this might not have been a snapped cable but the cable ripped out of its plastic blocks. 
 

https://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8938&p=108820&hilit=Window#p108820

[wesacosa]

1 minute ago, jamescarruthers said:

I seem to remember the Citroen dealer sold me a repair kit a few years ago for mine. However, this might not have been a snapped cable but the cable ripped out of its plastic blocks. 
 

https://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8938&p=108820&hilit=Window#p108820

I think the cables are replaceable its just if its burnt out the motor

[Ian_Fearn]

Is this a 2.1 TD with the Lucas Epic pump?

The last I heard about these pumps a few years back is that rebuilds are not successful.

[wesacosa]

3 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

Is this a 2.1 TD with the Lucas Epic pump?

The last I heard about these pumps a few years back is that rebuilds are not successful.

yes it is.  leak seems to be coming from the valves on the top so perhaps it doesn't need a full rebuild but not that easy to see in situ 

[Ian_Fearn]

In that case, you can still get seal kits, I’ve changed seals on Bosch pump 1.9 XUDs which are pretty straightforward to remove if you can change your own timing belts.

On the Bosch pump you set the timing manually with a Dti but I have a feeling the EPIC is electronically controlled and I’ve never done one of these.

[wesacosa]

5 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

In that case, you can still get seal kits, I’ve changed seals on Bosch pump 1.9 XUDs which are pretty straightforward to remove if you can change your own timing belts.

On the Bosch pump you set the timing manually with a Dti but I have a feeling the EPIC is electronically controlled and I’ve never done one of these.

yes I believe it's electronically controlled from what I have been reading 

[Three Speed]

49 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

yes I believe it's electronically controlled

Quite true - the E in Epic is for electronic.  Because until then all pumps were mechanically controlled. I was working in R+D at Lucas CAV / Diesel Fuel Injection as it was being developed. I didn't work on that project though. I was working on an equivalent project for trucks.

[artdjones]

You used to be able to screw the pumps sprocket to the engine front plate thus preserving cam timing the use a puller to push out the pump from the sprocket. Early XUDs actually had the puller built in.

 

[artdjones]

That's a better pic of the kind of puller. You bolt the sprocket to the front plate via the two timing holes seen here at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, then bolt the puller in front of the sprocket centre nut. There should be 2 threaded holes in the sprocket to enable this. Undo all the pump mountings, then undo the sprocket nut. As it unscrews it will push against the puller thus pushing the pump out. 

[maxxo]

the epic can give massive issues from what i've heard, i don't really have much experience on them however

it'll probably need re sealing, now i suspect those have an armoured cover over the solenoid? forgive me if i'm wrong i'm no expert

but i have heard you can change them for bosch VE pumps which honestly is likely the easier solution

but i have no idea how that could affect the electronics of a s2 car

[maxxo]

and if a ham fisted idiot like me who in the end decided to completely ignore all the guides managed to mostly successfully replace the seals on his pump, then believe in yourself! you can do it

[artdjones]

49 minutes ago, maxxo said:

the epic can give massive issues from what i've heard, i don't really have much experience on them however

it'll probably need re sealing, now i suspect those have an armoured cover over the solenoid? forgive me if i'm wrong i'm no expert

but i have heard you can change them for bosch VE pumps which honestly is likely the easier solution

but i have no idea how that could affect the electronics of a s2 car

I have done this on a 406 2.1. The Bosch pump swap, that is.  Completely doable but you need the injector pipes and injectors to match the pump. Also the new pump has to be bolted to the correct (different) position on the pump mounting bracket. The bulb will have to be taken out of the EML and the wiring harness to the epic pump tied up out of the way. The owner of that car got a Bosch pump etc. from an early XM.

[wesacosa]

haven't used the XM in bloody ages. Still haven't sorted out the small leak from fuel pump spill solenoid. I finally sorted out a replacement battery terminal for the cracked positive lead which was keeping me from the road.  Starting to prepare it now for what is likely to be a forced sale at end August as nobody seems to want to stand up to that dictator Khan. Fitted my  lucky scrap yard find OEM radio with code which I'm rather pleased with

Also got some less scratched OEM wheel trims and some OEM rubber floor mats

 

[maxxo]

if you want to stick with hydro citroens i’m more than happy to swap my ulez compliment C5 with you for this, i’d say they both have similar values too

[wesacosa]

cheers. will probably end up downsizing but will let you know if not. ta

[maxxo]

Just now, wesacosa said:

cheers. will probably end up downsizing but will let you know if not. ta

depending on how much you want for it, i could be very interested

[wesacosa]

will let you know. guess it will probably come down to which way the ULEZ court case goes early July , but I suspect the lying weasle will win

[brownnova]

Also potential interest this way. XM is a high on the list car, and if I don’t do it soon I never will. Depends on timing and other cars costs for jobs, but… 

[Lankytim]

I’m sure 1.9 XUD pumps and injectors fit these? Unless I had a dream about it.

[jonathan_dyane]

Yes they do, I replaced my old XM pump when it failed with a 1.9 turbo pump and with the fuelling turned up a whisker it ran great.

[wesacosa]

Bringing some retro gallic flair to the work car park recently alongside @rob88h's BX Leader 

I am really going to miss having this as my daily driver in a few weeks 

 

[wesacosa]

a handsome machine in a world of bland

[wesacosa]

well the XM has decided to reward all of my bigging it up over last few weeks by having a few crazy moments where the idle speed starts to fluctuate between 1250 and 1750rpm somewhat spoiling my last week of using it

I am pretty sure its related to the suspected O ring deterioration on the fuel pump solenoid drawing a bit of air in

Not sure if I am going to fix this and the other issue and sell it or see if I can just get rid as is.  Probably not wise to make any rash decisions but  at the moment my mojo has totally gone with cars. The stress about the ULEZ and losing my cars and the implications on my hobby has almost finished me off this last ten months 

on the plus side I might have someone interested in taking on the Favorit which will hopefully mean it will live on

[grogee]

2 hours ago, wesacosa said:

someone interested in taking on the Favorit

Is it me?