The life of a bargain hunter in Italia is not a happy one.

[Sir Chocolate Teapot]

As per the intro thread, I have the pleasure and pain of living in Italia. Thought some may be interested in how car /bike buying works here. 

Used cars / bikes are much more expensive here, people on average keep vehicles much longer and what in UK would be valued at £500 costs at least euro 1500 if not 2000! 

There is more! 

To change ownership involves burocracy and money. 

Each region charges different rates, here in piemonte a scooter or motorbike is flat rate of euro 183

Car ownership transfers are charged on rated horse Power, minimum charge seems about euro 450 for a 60 hp panda. The burocratic tax /charge goes up lots for more powerful cars. 

So you see the problem.  You find a cheap by Italian standards car for 1000 euro, straight away you must add approx 500 euro to change ownership, to change ownership takes time, non of this turn up after work cash in hand stuff.  Both buyer and seller must go together to nearest large town with an official agency office and wait in the queue and then sign all paperwork ( and pay the rip off fees and declare price paid for vehicle). 

But there is more!  Even if the seller has the registration document in his/her name only but is married, yes you guessed it, their partner has to come into the agency to sign documents also. 

In summary :

View vehicle. 

Arrange time with seller when both ( and partner) are free for half a day to go to nearest agency. 

Get extra bank loan to pay rip off fees. 

Arrange another day to be able to collect. 

All in normally needs at least 2 weeks to get everyone together. 

But there is more! 

In Italy there is no road tax,  instead there is a possession tax. This means even basket cases have to pay tax every year to retain registration documents. None of that there Sorn over here. Would Sir like to pay extra to check all taxes have been paid up to date before taking ownership of vehicle (and any fines and unpaid taxes). 

You guessed it again, there is more. 

Non residents in Italia can not buy a car here because the seller can not sell it to them. I am not sure how it works to sell to a non resident but I do know that the seller must pay fees to export the car, non of that simple signing v5 doc  to state that car had been exported. 

To those who think the dvla are difficult to deal with, come spend some time dealing with the equivalent Italian dept. 

A few years ago I imported a UK reg car to Italy and lost quite a few hair follicles. 

In next few weeks I am building up the courage to attempt importing a UK reg motorcycle into Italy, my wife is I think secretly looking forward to a change of husband from long haired turnip to a bald headed style icon. 

Count to ten. 

Grazie

Sir Chocolate Teapot

 

 

[Doctormop]

Never imagined a system more difficult to negotiate than the UK model.

Best of luck buying something you want with money you have and staying out of Prison; all at the same time

Spoiler

 

 

[Isaac Hunt]

Ooooph, sounds like a right mare.  

And there was the EU pressing for us to adopt the Euro style number plate system.   Sound to me like the UK ought to be pressing all EU member startes to adopt the U.K. System.  Maybe even the DVSA could run it for them and charge them accordingly, after all, they pulled in NI into the south walls system.  Must admit that the DVSA on-line access to MOT history is very good and the system for on-line transfer of VRN is fantastic, all done from your armchair in seconds.   

[wuvvum]

21 minutes ago, Sir Chocolate Teapot said:

Non residents in Italia can not buy a car here because the seller can not sell it to them.

Is that not against EU rules on free movement of goods?  (Not that the Mediterranean countries ever pay more than lip service to EU regs anyway.)

[Tadhg Tiogar]

54 minutes ago, Doctormop said:

Never imagined a system more difficult to negotiate than the UK model.....

If there is one, I'm told it tends to be Italian!

[Sir Chocolate Teapot]

EU laws in Italia!!

You can not buy a van in Italy without the equivalent of being vat registered I believe. 

Giuseppe "Hey Mario, heard the one about on line stream lined on time at home in armchair done dealing with a government agency?" 

Mario "amico mio, sei un idiota. Pass me that grappa it must be good." 

[lesapandre]

I like the marriage bit. That's surreal - to what purpose? Because all goods and chattels are assets shared? What if you are seperated and living in different cities - you might never get rid of your car and you still have to pay yearly tax on it! Bugger revenge porn, you could be lumbered with a revenge car...Imagine calculating the pros and cons of getting hitched - getting rid of that 65' Fiat in the garden could prove impossible. The only way to get rid of it would be divorce...or murder.

[Sir Chocolate Teapot]

Lesapandre, yes. All to do with taxes, tax avoidance. I'm no expert on Italian systems but I do know bits. When you get married here the default norm is shared interest in all goods etc. You can go to a lawyer and legally declare that you are not sharing all goods etc. I guess this includes all debts also. This is normally done to avoid second house tax payments, husband takes ownership and "residence" in 1 House and wife takes ownership and residence in the other. With regards to abandoned cars in the garden all I know is that it is not a case of asking for a new v5doc. My understanding is that not paying the yearly possession tax will result in fines and eventual ban of car docs and the state run dept collection agency getting involved and your life becoming a misery. 

An interesting fact in italy to do with inheritance. Husband and wife with kids. Husband (or wife) dies, law states that the remaining partner does not get all the house etc, the kids automatically inherit 50% of everything!. Insane, just imagine the chaos and stress when families have already fallen apart, then kids inherit bits of house with one parent still living there and everyone hates each other. This is why there are so many seemingly abandoned houses in italy, broken families arguing over living and ownership arrangements. Obviously the nice kids can opt to decline the inheritance and mum gets it all. 

And finally I believe that financially it is better not to get married here and the gov. Has realised that this is a problem. 

[anonymous user]

On 5/24/2019 at 10:58 PM, Isaac Hunt said:

and the system for on-line transfer of VRN is fantastic, all done from your armchair in seconds.   

Unless it's on a Sunday as the DVLA computer has time off.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

2 hours ago, Sir Chocolate Teapot said:

..... interesting fact in italy to do with inheritance. Husband and wife with kids. Husband (or wife) dies, law states that the remaining partner does not get all the house etc, the kids automatically inherit 50% of everything!...... 

This has some similarities to the Intestacy Rules for England and Wales, albeit the surviving spouse gets the first 250 grand, and any remainder is split 50/50 between the survivor and surviving children.

[uk_senator]

Well, despite being half Italian, I didn't know any of that, as I`ve never asked.. Sod that for a game of soldiers.

One of my friends has moved from America to Italy recently, & now wants to buy a car there, she asked me if I knew anything about it, as she`d heard there was agro involved & was considering buying a stream of cars from neighbouring countries, leaving them on foreign plates, then getting another if/when she's told she cant use them any more.. I'm now seeing why that could be a good option.. 

[lesapandre]

Or get a gestor involved? In Spain... for a fee... they will do all the nasty admin. It's a recognised profession one level below a lawyer. Very handy.

[Asimo]

What about the used car trader?  Can a Belgian or an Israeli buy from a dealer?

[lesapandre]

Buying thorough a garage may be easier...maybe?!

[Sir Chocolate Teapot]

Yes, buying via a dealer is much easier but expensive, probably worth it when spending 15/20 k but at cheap end of market makes no sense to me . Still takes weeks to buy a car through a

dealer, best not be in a hurry in Italy.

Found out another issue here with insurance.

You fancy a change of bike or car but want to change insurance to new vehicle, can not do that untill you sell the old vehicle and have the legal document that says you have sold old vehicle before you can transfer old insurance to new vehicle. Seems you must start a new insurance policy ( no no claims discount !) If you want to buy and drive before selling old car, then waste remains old insurance cover and wait for a year and then use NCD when you have sold. 

I now have 2 bike insurance running together !!

 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

One of my brothers and his mate went to Italy thinking they buy a couple of Ducatis , bring them back and make a fortune.

They spent 2 days in Italy , then gave up and went to Austria. Where they did buy 3 Ducatis which eventually netted them about a grand profit each after all expenses. One of  them was recently for sale for at least twice what they sold it for .

[sutty2006]

Sod living in Italy then. Sounds like a farce that could easily be gotten rid of...if it wasn’t for all the money making. 

[Jerzy Woking]

And I thought Spain was bad!!! I did buy a brand new motorbike out there, which was easy as the dealer in Murcia was very helpful. I just paid which was about £200 cheaper than the UK price) and everything was done.

I am now trying to buy a cheap old shitter out there (wingz123 gave me a few leads) and just found out about using a geston. Will have to check their fees as it may mean buying a more expensive car than I plan to.

[Sir Chocolate Teapot]

If Spain is anything like Italy it kind of makes no sense buying a car that will only last 1 year or 2. The admin charge for changing ownership of min 400 odd euros regardless if 700 euro car with 200k Kms or 7000 euro car with 50k Kms makes no economic sense for the cheap car.