Austin Maxi

[NorfolkNWeigh]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

Yea - it was the right car at the right time - just let down for the wrong reasons - mostly image and quality control.

With the rise of the DIY generation, 'garden centres' and the first out of town 'sheds' and supermarkets, the growth of the Motorways, as well as aspirational growing families moving 'up' it should have been a winner. Instead the R16, Golf, Citroen GS, Volvo and numerous competitors took that middle-class-middle-market away from BL.

Why no Maxi GT like the 1300GT, or Vanden Plas badge or even MG to make it a bit less 'Terry and June' in image? If the Hillman Hunter - with a stripe and some Rostyles - could make the Minx cool - anything was possible

Unloved by Leyland I feel. Pity - they look good in the metal - saw one recently in the local supermarket car park - really its natural habitat.

And in the land of motoring make believe - what if Leyland had poured all the development time and money of the Marina into getting the Maxi really right to complete head on with Cortina and Golf? Sigh...

Ive found myself in the position of Maxi apologist before and it's not something I'm particularly suited for, when I was young I was pretty much a Ford man and those days I seem to have more Mercs than is proper for an Englishman.

But, I dispute any assertion that the Maxi was not a good car, the British market for medium size cars in the 1970's was almost entirely ruled by the company car and especially big fleets. This is the reason that the Cortina did so well, simple straightforward and very cheap to both purchase and more importantly run for 3 years or 60,000 miles. Pretty much  any contemporary magazine road test that compared a Maxi to a a Cortina found the BL car to be be superior in every way, ride, handling, performance , economy , interior space and comfort , but the big fleet managers didn't care , the bottom line was more important than any of these inconsequential factors. But it was OK BL had the Marina to fight the Cortina...

In Briain , those fine Continental cars you mention were too expensive- full stop.

The HL was the Maxi GT, twin carbs, a rev counter and different hubcaps( nobody noticed they were just standard Allegro ones) 

You also have to remember the monumental clusterfuck that BL was with strikes, internal fighting between factories and Marques, it's amazing they managed to sell or make any cars let alone any that they were trying to sell Allegros, Marinas, Maxis, Princeses, and Dolomites to the consumers that wanted a fleet of Escort 1300L, Cortina 1600 L, and Cortina 2000GL , they also wanted them today and with the paint attached to every panel. Ford had strike problems too , but they  could at least ship some in from other countries.

Vauxhall and Chrysler managed to survive the 70's by mostly selling basic old fashioned cars to fleets that didn't like Fords, Vivas, Avengers , Hunters and Victors were pale Escort and Cortina imitators but we're very chea The Cavalier and Carlton when they arrived were seen as a massive step forward, but as badge engineered Opels that was to be expected.

It could be said that the Alpine and Mk2 Cavalier were influenced by something ( OK the R16 came first but was too weird) fwd, 5 door hatch ...

[keef]

On 25 March 2019 at 10:53 PM, quicksilver said:

XGY615S (1500)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211939538505259&set=ecnf.1275978106&type=3&theater 

[JeeExEll]

An Austin Maxi Cooper could have been a good idea. A HL or HLS badge somehow didn't quite encourage the same enthusiasm.

[lesapandre]

I just remembered these in period. My Uncle had a Minx which we kids considered a bit naff - but my friend William's dad had a Hillman Hunter GT in a very distinctive green with a black stripe and Rostyles - we considered it very cool even though it was basically the same car...same with the Austin 1300GT which looked quite good. 

Leyland dropped the Cooper name to save licensing fees (imagine) but as you say could have refreshed the Maxi image with some halo models.

All wishful thinking - such a pity the Maxi did not sell more. There are some interesting Australian variants where they seemed to take the car more seriously.

I remember Donald Stokes on BBC 'Nationwide' waxing lyrical about the new Marina. 

[keef]

On 3/25/2019 at 10:53 PM, quicksilver said:

YDU590S (1750)

https://n.Facebook.com/groups/AustinMaxis/permalink/1761535663967342

[quicksilver]

^ That's an old pic from the previous ownership. Those hideous seat covers went straight in the bin and it now has a set of wheel embellishers. The previous owner was an eccentric old giffer who removed the embellishers and 'elephant's trunk' vent pipes from all his Maxis as he didn't like them (and probably has a huge pile of them in his garage) and believes the 1500 cable-change is the best type of Maxi even though literally no one else in the club agrees with him!

[keef]

Never owned or even driven a cable changer, so I wouldn't disagree with him.

 

 

[keef]

On 25 March 2019 at 10:53 PM, quicksilver said:

YNH967S (1750, in Northants scrapyard, last taxed 1985)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201718214892

[Cavcraft]

 

Have you had that one yet? Christopher Jones, Treorchy. Facebook 'Classic cars for sale' £1200.

 

 

[keef]

2 hours ago, Cavcraft said:

Have you had that one yet? Christopher Jones, Treorchy. Facebook 'Classic cars for sale' £1200.

Yes, thanks.

 

[Jerzy Woking]

There is a giffer driven one in Braintree. I last saw it having the tits revved out of it reversing out of a parking space in the Sainsburys car park.

Did have a photo but cant find it now.

[ETCHY]

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the Maxi was released earlier than the engineers etc wanted due to Lord Stokes insisting it being ready for a certain date. That's why the early ones had issues as basically they weren't ready to go out yet !

[Skizzer]

On 1/1/2020 at 3:03 PM, ETCHY said:

I've always thought of the Maxi as the first people carrier or multi purpose type vehicle. You can seat 5 people in it, or fold the back seats & get a garden bench or god knows what in it, or indeed flip the seats backwards & you can sleep in it. All that in what still looks like a car & not a van.

Pretty advanced for 1969 !

Maxis are indeed a clever design, but not the first.  Renault beat Austin to market by four years with the 1965 R16 (and Simca by two with the smaller 1100 in 1967).

Have some gratuitous Renault 16 pics demonstrating its use (by me) as a mobile Travelodge:

Surprisingly comfy.

The Maxi does benefit from a lower, more estate-like loading sill than the R16 and an easier rear seat folding arrangement, however.

[lesapandre]

After 1975 the Maxi had  competition from the 4-door Golf, larger Passat and also from the Chrysler Alpine 4-door hatch.  A very neatly styled  car the latter designed by Roy Axe. Must be one of the first uses of integrated bumpers. I recall they sold pretty well at first. Our next door neighbour had one new in a very fetching light metallic blue. Seemed a very fresh bit of design at the time.

 

[JeeExEll]

4 hours ago, ETCHY said:

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the Maxi was released earlier than the engineers etc wanted due to Lord Stokes insisting it being ready for a certain date. That's why the early ones had issues as basically they weren't ready to go out yet !

https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/austin/maxi/

[JeeExEll]

The Port Glasgow Motor Company's rather unenthusiastic advertising campaign for the Maxi.

[High Jetter]

I bought a maroon 1750 for Mrs Jetter back in the late 80's - VPK 2S. She found the steering to heavy so it didn't last long with us. Nice car but not as good as the R16TL I had some years earlier, but then I had to replace the gearbox on that as it started making some terminal noises on the way back from Castle Donnington to the south coast after going to the Mini 25 celebrations.

[JeeExEll]

Short British Pathe film from 1970. No sound.

 

[JeeExEll]

There is sound on this very short period vid though.

 

[lesapandre]

Ford type dash designed by Roy Haynes who was tasked with cleaning up the BMC car for market. The A U S T I N script along the bonnet edge can't have lasted long either - do many of these very early cars survive? Shades of R O V E R on the last of the Rovers.

Much made of the converts-to-double bed angle - it's funny the newsreel does not seem to know what a hatchback car is for - most people want to know if you can get a wardrobe or lawnmower in there - not take a kip. But perhaps shows a changing society - earlier publicity for cars most always showed cases and bags in car boots - not DIY material or plants etc.

[anonymous user]

I'm pretty sure Citroen used to do a hatch on the Traction Familiale and that was before the A40 farina countryman hatch.

[lesapandre]

Yes they did - I think it was called Commercial or something. Radford the coachbuilders built hatchback Bentleys in the late 40's too - even called it the Countryman.

[ETCHY]

18 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

Ford type dash designed by Roy Haynes who was tasked with cleaning up the BMC car for market. The A U S T I N script along the bonnet edge can't have lasted long either - do many of these very early cars survive? Shades of R O V E R on the last of the Rovers.

Much made of the converts-to-double bed angle - it's funny the newsreel does not seem to know what a hatchback car is for - most people want to know if you can get a wardrobe or lawnmower in there - not take a kip. But perhaps shows a changing society - earlier publicity for cars most always showed cases and bags in car boots - not DIY material or plants etc.

The very pale green Maxi my neighbours had in about 1980 was an early one with the original Ford type dash & Austin script. I've always been surprised at how different somehow the frontal aspect is on those early cars without the central vertical grille badge the later ones had. I'd be keen to know myself how many of those are still around, i don't recall seeing many since.

The conversion to being able to sleep in a car does seem very popular in the 1960's. If you look at contemporary road tests they always mention reclining seats & being able to lie down as a feature - maybe something to do with the "swinging "sixties ?

[lesapandre]

Cortaxi

Matina

[MorrisItalSLX]

That early Maxi dash reminds me of the HT/HG Holden.

[lesapandre]

Some history from Aronine of the quagmire that Maxi was launched into. Sad but fascinating window on multiple corporate governance mistakes, self-inflicted problems and external factors contributing - as well as just some sheer bad luck. Hubris.

https://www.aronline.co.uk/history/british-motor-holdings/british-motor-holdings-whole-story-part-3/

A very full well written account of what went so so wrong at the time.

And we still kind of live with this today. From 1968 on a series of dominoes fell that led to BIMI and Tatra.

[lesapandre]

And at the centre of things there was Donald Stokes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jul/22/automotive.past

 

[New POD]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

And at the centre of things there was Donald Stokes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jul/22/automotive.past

 

That's a very good summary of British Arrogance and stupidity. 

[ETCHY]

Fascinating stuff thanks for the links.

A failure to capitalise on models they already had & update them & a failure to read the market & react to the needs of the market.

I've never been an Allegro hater (I rather like them) but an updated 1100/1300 with a hatchback may have been a far better move or at least have a hatchback on the Allegro.  An updated hatchback equipped Mini was also badly needed. Unfortunately that crazy inability to read the market meant that foreign competition VW Golf, Renault 5 etc provided what was needed/ wanted by the customer & crucially let them gain a foothold.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it's clear that BL weren't looking outwards at the market enough. Even when the Princess was launched in 1975 they still wouldn't put a hatchback on it (despite the fact it would've been a very good idea !) As they had the Maxi & they felt that was their hatchback car.. This inflexibility really did them no favours. 

Interesting to note in one of the articles the mention of its impact on the Truck & Bus side. My dad worked there & "joining with the cars"  was always referred to bitterly as the point things started to go wrong for them as they were starved of development money as it all went towards the cars. This meant Leyland Trucks had to soldier on with old/outdated models or half arsed new models based on what they already had, right through the 1970's. The Leyland Marathon truck is a prime example - the guys at Leyland knew it was no real match for the things that Volvo etc had but just sadly didn't have the money to do a better job (it does look quite cool though  in a block of flats type way ?). The  Leyland T45 in 1980 was superb & showed what they could do but  it was by then unfortunately rather too late..

It could all have been so different, but short sightedness,  big ego's, a lack of dynamic management  & an inability to read the market  & adapt, ultimately led to BL cars downfall. The products really weren't bad (Fords were no better,) but Ford  gave people what they wanted & got the image right.  An example is that Stokes got rid of the Mini Cooper the instant he landed as he wouldn't pay royalties & didn't think sportiness sold cars.  However Ford did well out of their sporty image & sportiness  & a cool image was a big thing in the 1970's..

[lesapandre]

Spot on I feel. The big failure it appears was the relatively poor sales of the new models introduced under Leyland with great fanfare. They did not sell enough to generate enough profit and did not build on past success.

The Maxi it appears was collateral damage here. Interesting to speculate what would have happened if BMH had fended off Leyland and continued alone. It was a 'hostile' take over.  In the end they were right with Maxi - fwd and a hatch and 5-speeds. Hello Golf.