project Invacar MK12 - New owner Mrs 6Cyl

[keef]

22 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

It does update more or less instantly now - impressive stuff tbh 

Sadly the same isn't true if you tax a vehicle at the Post Office these days.

 

Vehicle Details

Date of first registration

August 1979

Year of manufacture

1979

Vehicle status

Taxed

Date of last V5C (logbook) issued

2 December 2014

[500tops]

This thread needs moar pics!

[Zelandeth]

Roughly whereabouts is this now residing?  If it's somewhere not too distant I might need to bring TPA around to snap some family photos of them together.

Think I *may* still have some spares that I originally got with KPL which I'm reasonably sure are actually Mk12 bits.  Can't remember for definite if they were passed on with KPL or if they're still buried in my garage though, but I'll have a look next time I'm digging in that corner.  If they're still here they're all yours.  Don't think there was anything groundbreaking, but there was definitely a speedometer and a couple of switches in there.

[LightBulbFun]

45 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

but there was definitely a speedometer

I know at least 1 Mk12 Speedo ended up with @OliD-E because he asked me about it  

[Zelandeth]

That probably answers the question then!  I had a feeling that I'd basically thrown all the spares I didn't see me immediately needing along with KPL. Couldn't remember though!

[somewhatfoolish]

10 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

so long XWC!

or well until I see @BlankFrank's thread on the forum about it hopefully  (and then I can do a brain dump for him on that thread)

as others mentioned, its amazing how much better it looks after its scrub down!

(was that A Pillar secured with anything? as mentioned if it was just push fit in there id be worried about it flying off!)

 

yeah very much so! you did a very good job there!  

its AFAIK the only Mk12c that has a proper registration and still/now shows up on the DVLA etc  

close second is WOO976F but there is some shinagians with its chassis number im still trying to get to the bottom of

(tbh they are not that many Mk12c's survivors out there at all sadly, only about 4 including XWC468F!)

Did you find out where the one that was for sale in Ireland went to?

[LightBulbFun]

5 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Did you find out where the one that was for sale in Ireland went to?

indeed I did 

to quote the seller from back in Dec 2019

Quote

it’s gone back to the UK . I think he’s going modifying it for a customer as a pit car in AC cobra racing 

which is a bit sad and worrying

I hope they don't do anything too drastic much to it! as surviving  Mk12's go it was in very good condition, so it would be a big shame to see it butchered up

and secondly its an Invacar Mk12B, it has nothing to do with AC at all!

it would be much more at home as a pit car for Greeves motorcycle racing LOL

sadly I never heard back after that and I dont know whats become of it since that last communication with the seller

[BlankFrank]

Here are some pics as requested, for the sake of it i took them of areas that might not have been seen in the previous pictures.

 

 

The chain drive is full of soil/rust/invacar-guano and looks seized solid i believe at this point. will investigate in future.

 

 

The slip joint in the driveshaft center seems free to slide in and out though so thats good.

 

 

Clutch plates seem rusted up, dont know if its terminal. Any input from people with experience of bike clutches looking this rusted is appreciated.

 

(i have the missing rear bit, it's still with the car as before. )

As i dig into the car further i'll report back with the condition and plans for each area needing work and stuff. ?

 

Finally some underbody shots, whole floor will probably be replaced eventually.
 

 

As with all projects like this, it is larger than previously expected but thats somewhat normal.

This will probably be a long term bit-by-bit ongoing project/resto rather than a "fix it up and recomission it" job. ?

Random wires, because why not.

Going back into the garage later this evening to take another look and then i'll probably post the plan for what i'm going to tackle first after giving it another once-over.

[egg]

Graham Walker had an exhaust for sale on Facebook FYI.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2564218903609180/

 

[plasticvandan]

Clutch plates won't cost the earth and it's a wet clutch,so runs in oil anyway.

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

Graham Walker had an exhaust for sale on Facebook FYI.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2564218903609180/

 

im not 100% sure if thats for a Mk12? looks a bit short and wide

something id more expect from an AC Model 57

I suspect the term/word invacar might be used a bit colloquially here sadly 

 

[LightBulbFun]

14 hours ago, egg said:

just noticed, is that a head lamp bulb hanging down?

did it fall out the back of the head lamp?!

any markings on the bulb? would be quite interesting to know the various bulbs date codes

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Wowsers. That chain hasn't turned in a day or two! This looks like an intriguing little project - it'll be brilliant to eventually see it moving under its own steam again!

[BlankFrank]

@LightBulbFun  Could you give me a part number/details on what clutch master cyinder and brake master cylinder this uses? Also the brake shoe slave cylinders if you can?

I'll try get some pics of the bulbs for ya soon btw. ? It is hanging out the back dangling yeah, i think its an indicator though.

[egg]

I think brake parts are Triumph Herald (Lockheed)

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

@LightBulbFun  Could you give me a part number/details on what clutch master cyinder and brake master cylinder this uses? Also the brake shoe slave cylinders if you can?

I'll try get some pics of the bulbs for ya soon btw. ?

I think its Girling 3112242W for both the Clutch master cylinder and brake master cylinder 

(the Mk12 page does not say but it lists the Store No 3113 which is used by a lot other machine including the Model 67, where it has Girling 3112242W mentioned in brackets)

 

19 minutes ago, egg said:

I think brake parts are Triumph Herald (Lockheed)

yeah the brochure say Lockheed 

but everything in the DHSS Parts manual says Girling...

so go figure!

[egg]

Ah yes I remember I found this Girling catalogue now..

On 10/3/2019 at 4:06 PM, egg said:

As a result of your doc, I came across a Girling catalogue - that lists under AC some invalid car brake parts supplied by Girling. Page 5.

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/94895fc8/files/uploaded/GIRLING VEHICLE APPLICATIONS. AC. ABARTH. ALFA. ASTON MARTIN%2C AUSTIN. HEALEY. BARRETT%2C BOND%2C CLAN%2C DAIMLER%2C ELVA. 1960-85.pdf

 

 

[sutty2006]

19 hours ago, inconsistant said:

Got home and realised I hadn't pointed out the bonus C reg Vauxhall Carlton that's always parked on the road opposite where we met.

I need more pictures of this..... asking for a friend. 

[Zelandeth]

Aside from the obvious chunks out of it which you thankfully have, the bodywork on that has survived astonishingly well.

Regarding the state of the drivetrain I reckon the first thing I'd be planning at this stage would be setting up an electrolysis tank.  Fiddly stuff like the chain can just be chucked in to be de-rusted so you can see what you've actually got to work with.  I've only used this method once and it honestly felt like witchcraft...horrible manky rusty mess went into the tank...came out looking like it had just come off the assembly line.  The look on my face was priceless as I'd gone into it pretty skeptical.

At least the underbody construction is fairly simple so it shouldn't be too bad to resolve the rust issues.

Looking forward to hearing what your findings are after a proper once over.

[BlankFrank]

Some pics i took today:

Work has begun, first bolt turned under my ownership.

 

Interior looking like the bloody monsters lair from Jeepers Creepers

 

Old seat remnants out, assuming this project gets to the finish-line it will be using a normal car seat due to this one being rotten, not butchering the mech in-case i change my mind and also because i don't want to be totally hamfisted in getting this thing roadworthy, i don't mind getting the angle grinder out for disassembly but i'm gonna save what i can. (the metalwork + mechanisms of the whole vehicle are already quite far-gone so don't expect much, mind).

 

Ignition coil and other misc gubbins.

 

I think there was some vaguery about whether the glass was for the front windscreen or the rear screen, i double-checked and it's the rear screen.

I might go for plexi in the end (assuming it gets there) because i don't like the idea of dieing from blood loss after an otherwise minor bump smashes chunks of 1960's non-safetyglass into my jugular..

Handbrake? Handbroken.

 

On 5/1/2020 at 2:55 PM, Zelandeth said:

Aside from the obvious chunks out of it which you thankfully have, the bodywork on that has survived astonishingly well.

Regarding the state of the drivetrain I reckon the first thing I'd be planning at this stage would be setting up an electrolysis tank.  Fiddly stuff like the chain can just be chucked in to be de-rusted so you can see what you've actually got to work with.  I've only used this method once and it honestly felt like witchcraft...horrible manky rusty mess went into the tank...came out looking like it had just come off the assembly line.  The look on my face was priceless as I'd gone into it pretty skeptical.

At least the underbody construction is fairly simple so it shouldn't be too bad to resolve the rust issues.

Looking forward to hearing what your findings are after a proper once over.

 Good call on the electrolysis idea Zel, that will be the plan then.

 

Edit: Just thought i'd mention: the rate of progress will probably be quite sedate. I'll nibble away at it gradually every few days. I will probably just keep posting any updates on XWC in this topic rather than making a new one because i feel less pressured to keep doing work on it every day if i'm updating the 'old' topic rather than starting a new one.

The plan is to get the interior wiring stripped out a bit so i can remove all fasteners holding the body on, then remove the whole body as 1 piece. After that i can access the engine much easier and remove it.

[LightBulbFun]

Awesome to see work being carried out on XWC once more  

48 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

then remove the whole body as 1 piece. After that i can access the engine much easier and remove it.

while you can remove the body as 1 big lump, its highly not recommended

as the body is not designed to support itself, so it could easily warp and crack/break the fibreglass fastening points that all hold it together 

especially given the fact the body is already structurally compromised! 

the body should come apart in sections and is how I recommend you remove it  

heres a picture of such, its of a Model 70 body shell but it should still give you some idea on how they come apart  

 

as a side note heres something you may find quite handy  (it was sent to me privately so id normally PM it, but since thats not working for you supposedly ill just include it in this post, iv checked it over theres no sensitive chassis numbers or such in it)

its for a Mk12E but should be broadly applicable to a Mk12c

Manual Invacar Mark12E.pdf

(main major difference is the Mk12E has parallelogram front suspension from the then still in development Model 70, where as the Mk12c has the then standard c tube front suspension setup)

[BlankFrank]

Fair point, in that case i'll take each panel/section off one at a time. Cheers for the manual too.

Little bit of news about the engine: It doesn't seem to be the dynastart that's causing the seizing because theres a little bit of rotational play when trying to turn the 2-stroke fan. Won't know for certain until i've got bodywork off and engine disconnected/removed.

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, BlankFrank said:

Fair point, in that case i'll take each panel/section off one at a time.

Little bit of news about the engine: It doesn't seem to be the dynastart that's causing the seizing because theres a little bit of rotational play when trying to turn the 2-stroke fan. Won't know for certain until i've got bodywork off and engine disconnected/removed.

yeah

id also be careful when removing the electrical gubbins, while there is a wiring digram in the instruction manual 

there are about 6 IIRC?, black wires coming out of the Villiers engine going to the dynastart, and these aren't labeled, so if they get cut or such figuring out which one goes where can be "fun"

heres a good video giving a good overview of a Villiers 9E engine (similar to an 11E) that @egg dug up a while ago  

 

 

[egg]

It's worth watching other videos from that series by Youtuber 'clayton cruiser' he has a whole series on tearing down an Villiers engine. Not high production values, but there may be some useful tips along the way.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Claytoncruiser/videos

Just wanted to say, it's genuinely lifted my spirits to see work happening on this and you're making decisions already. I was faffing around the edges too much, as is my wont. I think it's the right call on the seat. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, BlankFrank said:

Handbrake? Handbroken.

Yup, I think I worked out where the cable would be attached, it seemed pretty basic!

[Joey spud]

You know everyone goes out and claps the NHS once a week well i think there should something similar organised here for Mr Egg.

I mean he found this unloved old heap of rust and broken fibre glass,paid to have it transported home and stored in a council lock up even buying odd bits for it along the way.

He then spent an age fannying about finding and getting its registration reinstated when mere mortals whould have canned the idea long ago only to sell it on for a token fee.

What a thoroughly decent bloke he is.

[Andyrew]

3 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

What a thoroughly decent bloke he is.

Agreed

[keef]

I can just see Egg being sponsored to walk to and from his lockup with his Zimmer frame.

[Wingz123]

56 minutes ago, keef said:

I can just see Egg being sponsored to walk to and from his lockup with his Zimmer frame.

Or laps around his mondeo

[Dick Cheeseburger]

4 hours ago, Joey spud said:

You know everyone goes out and claps the NHS once a week well i think there should something similar organised here for Mr Egg.

I mean he found this unloved old heap of rust and broken fibre glass,paid to have it transported home and stored in a council lock up even buying odd bits for it along the way.

He then spent an age fannying about finding and getting its registration reinstated when mere mortals whould have canned the idea long ago only to have to now sell it on for a token fee.

What a thoroughly decent bloke he is.

I think Egg and Frank deserve clappage in equal measure.