Project BX17RD - the further adventures of PBO

[dean36014]

That glow plug relay wiring caused issues back when I owned it. Personally I think the plug needs replacing to the relay

[mat_the_cat]

11 hours ago, SmokinWaffle said:

@Ian_Fearndon't suppose you have any original primers or a contact to any?

I have one spare - I'll dig it out tomorrow.

[mat_the_cat]

If it's of interest, I can send out if you cover postage, and if it solves your problem then bung me a few quid?

[SmokinWaffle]

On 1/12/2021 at 11:22 PM, mat_the_cat said:

If it's of interest, I can send out if you cover postage, and if it solves your problem then bung me a few quid?

Hmmm. Not sure if it's worth the hassle of changing it for something that doesn't really cause any issues to be honest - I appreciate you digging it out. For a luddite (kind of) - is it easy to replace do you know?

@dean36014 I think that too - been fine since I gave it a poke though touch wood.

The real issue is the amount of moisture in the thing now we are reaching sub zero temps - got two of those Silica gel bags from Amazon which have helped a tiny bit. Took the mats out over the weekend as the carpet was moist as anything in the front, soaked on the back of the rubber mats. It's a bit better now but still questionable. I know it'll never be totally watertight - but still....

I was going to take the front carpets out of the transit and put some Raptor liner on it or similar as it has the same issue with poorly made foam collecting moisture under the carpet. Is this a good idea in the BX do you think? At least at the front? The carpet barely fits anyway and is probably where a lot of the moisture is stored!

 Inside of the rear window was totally iced over and me being the clever lad I am just attacked it with the deicer scraper.

Duuuuhhh. Now I think I've destroyed what was left of the track on the HRW. Doh! So, if anyone knows of a good BX rear hatch in white for sale.....

[Fumbler]

1 hour ago, SmokinWaffle said:

Duuuuhhh. Now I think I've destroyed what was left of the track on the HRW. Doh! So, if anyone knows of a good BX rear hatch in white for sale.....

I've seen it on YouTube before where people in Canada used this copper conductive paint to re-establish the traces on a HRW. No idea if it's sold in the UK, or even sold at all.

[Sunny Jim]

Is the BX parked somewhere you can get an extension lead to it? I regularly put my dehumidifier in the boot of mine which not only keeps it bone dry inside it also raises the temperature a bit which keeps it above freezing.

This is the one I've got, also useful for drying clothes and generally keeping the moisture at bay in an old stone cottage in Wales.

Dehumidifier

[SmokinWaffle]

4 hours ago, Fumbler said:

I've seen it on YouTube before where people in Canada used this copper conductive paint to re-establish the traces on a HRW. No idea if it's sold in the UK, or even sold at all.

I've seen this but it's about £7 - 15 for 2ml of the stuff it seems and it's a sort of maybe thing. I think there are a lot of broken traces to be honest so a replacement might be better...

29 minutes ago, Sunny Jim said:

Is the BX parked somewhere you can get an extension lead to it? I regularly put my dehumidifier in the boot of mine which not only keeps it bone dry inside it also raises the temperature a bit which keeps it above freezing.

This is the one I've got, also useful for drying clothes and generally keeping the moisture at bay in an old stone cottage in Wales.

Dehumidifier

It is - how often do you do it? Wouldn't want to run up the leccy bill too much. I've got a spare dehumidifer somewhere...

[vulgalour]

To save you hunting, I can tell you where water was coming in:

Windscreen seal - Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure, applied a few times, cured this but it's not a permanent fix and needs reapplying.  Driver's side is the culprit along the roof edge.  It's had the windscreen frame repaired well before I got it and the windscreen was refitted slightly wonky, I suspect this is the cause of the windscreen leak and a new screen would solve it.

Rear doors - the moisture membranes behind the door card on the passenger side had failed when I had it.  I know I redid the passenger side, I may have done the driver's side too, and that cured it but they may have failed again.  You'll know if it's this as the rear footwells will be paddling pools.

Front door seals - The frame of the front doors distorts really easily and that can mean the frame doesn't seal against the door seal.  I did replace the passenger side front door seal as the original was knackered, as well as bending the frame in slightly to make a better seal and stop water getting in that way.

To dry it out you're going to have to pull the carpets out, they don't dry out when left in the car and it's the insulation/padding stuff on the back of them that holds onto the water.  Just be careful when you remove them, it's a felt type padding (and necessary for noise reduction, trust me) and can be fragile when wet.  It's best to let the carpets drip-dry rather than trying to wet-vac them, reduces the risk of damage, it just takes a while.  The carpets will be smelly because of the padding on the back, once dry they stop being smelly.  The carpets hold onto a lot of water and no amount of dehumidifier solutions are going to help.  Front carpet is in two halves, from memory, this is one of the previous owners' modifications and actually helps get things dried out because you don't have to remove the centre console to remove the carpets, it's probably also why the front carpet doesn't fit great.  It's noisy without the carpet but it's a must when you're trying to solve this water ingress issue.  Rear carpet is a separate piece.  I can't remember if you need to take the seats out to get the carpets out, I think you do for the rear but not for the front, but don't quote me on that.

I don't recall having a water ingress issue in the back, but the rear screen would fog up quite badly if the front was wet.

[Sunny Jim]

I use the dehumidifier over night once a week - the windows were steamed up on the inside although the carpets weren't wet so it sounds like my water ingress isn't as bad as yours. 

Having said that I'll be going through the points vulgalour made above to try and work out how and where it's getting in.

[mat_the_cat]

11 hours ago, SmokinWaffle said:

Hmmm. Not sure if it's worth the hassle of changing it for something that doesn't really cause any issues to be honest - I appreciate you digging it out. For a luddite (kind of) - is it easy to replace do you know?

It's not tricky to replace, but sounds like you have more pressing issues!

Seems like you're covered regarding the water leaks, but you can get the window repair paint here. But if all tracks are damaged I'd hand in the towel and either replace the hatch, glass, or fit a stick-on kit which matches your existing spacing as closely as possible:

https://frostfighter.com/clear-view-order-guide.htm

They're in the US but did ship to the UK a couple of years back at least.

[SmokinWaffle]

On 1/18/2021 at 2:36 PM, vulgalour said:

To save you hunting, I can tell you where water was coming in:

Windscreen seal - Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure, applied a few times, cured this but it's not a permanent fix and needs reapplying.  Driver's side is the culprit along the roof edge.  It's had the windscreen frame repaired well before I got it and the windscreen was refitted slightly wonky, I suspect this is the cause of the windscreen leak and a new screen would solve it.

Rear doors - the moisture membranes behind the door card on the passenger side had failed when I had it.  I know I redid the passenger side, I may have done the driver's side too, and that cured it but they may have failed again.  You'll know if it's this as the rear footwells will be paddling pools.

Front door seals - The frame of the front doors distorts really easily and that can mean the frame doesn't seal against the door seal.  I did replace the passenger side front door seal as the original was knackered, as well as bending the frame in slightly to make a better seal and stop water getting in that way.

To dry it out you're going to have to pull the carpets out, they don't dry out when left in the car and it's the insulation/padding stuff on the back of them that holds onto the water.  Just be careful when you remove them, it's a felt type padding (and necessary for noise reduction, trust me) and can be fragile when wet.  It's best to let the carpets drip-dry rather than trying to wet-vac them, reduces the risk of damage, it just takes a while.  The carpets will be smelly because of the padding on the back, once dry they stop being smelly.  The carpets hold onto a lot of water and no amount of dehumidifier solutions are going to help.  Front carpet is in two halves, from memory, this is one of the previous owners' modifications and actually helps get things dried out because you don't have to remove the centre console to remove the carpets, it's probably also why the front carpet doesn't fit great.  It's noisy without the carpet but it's a must when you're trying to solve this water ingress issue.  Rear carpet is a separate piece.  I can't remember if you need to take the seats out to get the carpets out, I think you do for the rear but not for the front, but don't quote me on that.

I don't recall having a water ingress issue in the back, but the rear screen would fog up quite badly if the front was wet.

Oooooff. Thanks for the tips my friend - I'll get on that tomorrow/in the week. The passenger one is a bit off which I solved with some draft insulation tape - but I'll have to give it a good hunt around.

It doesn't actually leak anywhere as far as I know - just moisture builds up inside, Front carpets are still soaked so I'll get on that in the week, rears are fine. Been so bad recently basically both front and rears are mostly frozen inside and out most mornings....

On 1/18/2021 at 2:47 PM, Sunny Jim said:

I use the dehumidifier over night once a week - the windows were steamed up on the inside although the carpets weren't wet so it sounds like my water ingress isn't as bad as yours. 

Having said that I'll be going through the points vulgalour made above to try and work out how and where it's getting in.

Cheers! 

On 1/18/2021 at 7:35 PM, mat_the_cat said:

It's not tricky to replace, but sounds like you have more pressing issues!

Seems like you're covered regarding the water leaks, but you can get the window repair paint here. But if all tracks are damaged I'd hand in the towel and either replace the hatch, glass, or fit a stick-on kit which matches your existing spacing as closely as possible:

https://frostfighter.com/clear-view-order-guide.htm

They're in the US but did ship to the UK a couple of years back at least.

Yeah I've made a right dogs dinner of it....trying to find a hatch seems difficult (although I've had the chance a few times in the last 6 months - but didn't need it then!!!), glass is impossible due to them all being located in France/overseas (£150~ or so plus shipping - but nobody ships here since we left the EU!) - I'll take a look at that frost fighter if I can't find a hatch. Cheers.

[spartacus]

Don't delude yourself, if moisture 'builds up inside' then it's leaking somewhere. Putting a dehumidifier in there isn't a bad shout, it makes it more habitable when you drive it, but ultimately it will struggle to pull moisture from the sound deadening under the carpet that Vulg is talking about, that will stay wet. 

[SmokinWaffle]

5 hours ago, spartacus said:

Don't delude yourself, if moisture 'builds up inside' then it's leaking somewhere. Putting a dehumidifier in there isn't a bad shout, it makes it more habitable when you drive it, but ultimately it will struggle to pull moisture from the sound deadening under the carpet that Vulg is talking about, that will stay wet. 

Not deluding - I meant I can't see a leak in the traditional sense of a drip, water ingress or pools. Nothing is wet as if it's direct leaking - but there is certainly a leak or somewhere where cold air/moisture is getting in for sure. Going to take out carpets in the week, tempted to put some bed liner on the floors to stop the moisture eventually rotting them.

Fixed the glow plug relay yesterday - turns out it was the loom/plug that was dodgy as suspected. Lopped them all off and just used insulated spade connectors - so now the connection is solid. Sadly the wiring itself is too short for it to be reliable when it's affixed to the inner wing like it should be - so it's cable tied to one of the battery cables (safely) at the moment to get me about. When it's warmer I'm going to take out the battery and re-do all the weird wiring that hides under it - as there is a break in it somewhere and pulling it tight makes it more common that it rears its head.

[SmokinWaffle]

Seems my relay fix isn't quite as good as hoped as where it moves a bit more being cable tied it's still making the connection intermittent because of the crap wiring. My dad knows a good electrician - going to see if he will just do it for some dosh as I can't be bothered messing about in the cold and rain anymore!

Took the front carpets out and had a handy transit on my drive to lie them on and roller pin a lot of the water out:

 

Got a lot of water out of it, sodden. Gross. Smelly. Now on a clothes airer in front of the radiator for a while. 

I did see in the drivers footwell there was a large rubber gasket which was sitting loose in the hole, making a gap. Looks steering-y - i'll get a better look in a minute when I go back out - that could be a lot of the moisture/damp getting in - although there is probably still an actual leak somewhere!

First time I've done this since I had it so I'll get them as dry as possible with radiator, hairdryer ect and see how we go.

Is it worth spraying some sort of bed liner on the floor? Tempted to just get a new roll of car underlay stuff and re-do it as these are obviously historically wet. Anyone used any from ebay or similar and can vouch for them?

I do have a massive reel of spare carpet from a friend in a carpet store in my house - although this probably wouldn't do the same job...

[Mr Laurence]

I’d forgotten you had that red transit! Has there been any progress on it recently?

[SmokinWaffle]

21 minutes ago, Mr Laurence said:

I’d forgotten you had that red transit! Has there been any progress on it recently?

It's had some frost on it recently, that's about it!

[vulgalour]

The underlay on the passenger side is original, on the driver's side it's only a year or two old but that stuff really likes to soak up the water.  Inspired use of the rolling pin!  If that loose grommet goes straight through to the outside that would definitely let the water in and the carpet is just going to wick it straight up until saturated.  It does look like the water is soaking in from the sill side so it might be the front door alignment/seal/moisture membrane at fault rather than the windscreen or the rubber grommet.

If you want a quick visual check, the thing that really helped me out with this one was to dry it all out then poof some baby powder all over the suspected ingress areas.  Leave it overnight and in the morning the water traces are usually really visible and it helps narrow the problem down really quickly.  Also helps mitigate some of the damp smell, so long as you don't mind the baby powder smell.  Other talcum powders work too if you have a preferred fragrance.

[SmokinWaffle]

Thanks as always @vulgalour - a true hive of knowledge and help.

Update - sort of - carpets still drying, need to rotate them tonight to do the other side, car is much less wet inside in the mornings from what I can see from the window of my house, makes me happy as hopefully that's a big part of the issue is just carpets wet over time. Ignoring why they got wet, that is.....still.

Relay is still a bit ooh-er, can't be opening the bonnet every time I want to start the thing so it's sat on the drive for now probably for a couple weeks until my dads mechanic friend has some free time - I'd rather get it done properly rather than me have a go in the cold and rain as I really can't be bothered with more intermittent electronics!

Got the other halves 62 plate corsa with heated seats/steering wheel in the meantime so I can't complain.

[SmokinWaffle]

Moved some cars around yesterday, the Panda is going as you may have seen from the roffle so that's now on the drive, I measured the BX and my garage and the length was just about right to fit.

Went to move the BX and this was in the drivers footwell:

Hooray! Water ingress for sure.

After some poking it started and I did a million point turn and got it into the garage (well, more like a 5/6 point turn but still)

Like I said, only just  - and using the garage is now a bit harder:

But at least it has somewhere out of the rain to sit so it doesn't fill with water until it gets fixed.

[dean36014]

I spent so many hours trying to solve water leaks on that car. The bulkhead repairs done to it weren't great and a possible ingress point plus the windshield is poorly fitted. I did at one point get it totally leak free so god knows where it's leaking from now.  

[vulgalour]

Me too!  That looks about as bad as it was leaking before I thought I'd solved it, what an absolute pisser.

[SmokinWaffle]

MAJOR UPDATE

I drilled some holes, put some cable inbetween them and made a sled out of the spare bonnet as nobody wanted it - as demonstrated by Mrs Waffle. Glad the BX is in the garage now it's snowing. 

[SmokinWaffle]

Does anyone know of/is a decent auto electrician who can redo the live wiring to the glow plug relay/injector/other relay in the bay so I can drive this again? Life has been busy but I'd love to get it sorted....

[SmokinWaffle]

On 3/9/2021 at 11:26 PM, SmokinWaffle said:

Does anyone know of/is a decent auto electrician who can redo the live wiring to the glow plug relay/injector/other relay in the bay so I can drive this again? Life has been busy but I'd love to get it sorted....

One more try. This is just sitting in the garage now - too many things on the go!

[SmokinWaffle]

Pls help. Before I sell the fucking thing out of exasperation. 

[wesacosa]

If its just the soldering that is putting you off , I really wouldn't bother soldering car wiring. Go for mechanical fixings. Open barrel splicing much better. Soldering a pain in the arse and unless you bloody good at it, you will get a much better connection with an open barrel crimp

[SmokinWaffle]

3 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

If its just the soldering that is putting you off , I really wouldn't bother soldering car wiring. Go for mechanical fixings. Open barrel splicing much better. Soldering a pain in the arse and unless you bloody good at it, you will get a much better connection with an open barrel crimp

It's more the case of the live that powers two relays and an injection pump goes into the firewall and to somewhere, which I think is where the issue lies, and there is some wiring under the battery tray. I'm just not confident

[wesacosa]

ah ok. yeah intermittent wiring faults are a pain in the arse for sure, but if you have a wiring diagram and a multimeter ( and a lot of patience) it is DIY-able 

[dozeydustman]

There was a chap in Gravesend when I lived there - Thomas Auto Electrics who did a great job on my Horizon in 1999, seemed to be quite busy and did on site work and was still going when I moved to sussex in 2015, but I can’t find him doing a google search so may have retired/died/moved away.

Does the car start and run at all? I can recommend a garage in Swanscombe who are chod friendly and probably would relish something simple to work on for once. And they have an automotive sparky.

[CaptainBoom]

I'll happily give you a hand if you want.  It sounds as though you know the route of the wire (and that's half the battle).  I have the required stuff at work (crimps, soldering iron, tons and tons of wire)

Is the BX mobile?  I can offer the warehouse at the weekend (near the A20 in Orpington) and work on it there.

If not, I can load up the car with required bits and come to you.