Ford timelord

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

It also possibly explains why the last V5c was issued for WGU on 6 October 1987, as deduced by @LightBulbFun

erm...

showing a new keeper change, 23 02 2020...

 

(NB the last Keeper change, well until now! was in 1987, the last V5 was issued in 1989 1987 IIRC  )

[LightBulbFun]

otherwise very cool stuff @Datsuncog been a proper rollercoaster ride this one has

(and looks like its not stopped!)

 

I wonder if with some careful examination if anyone can find any remnants of the red paint the second Ford was originally painted?

[Datsuncog]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

erm...

showing a new keeper change, 23 02 2020...

 

(NB the last Keeper change, well until now! was in 1987, the last V5 was issued in 1989 IIRC

Hell's teeth, another twist!!!

[LightBulbFun]

On 11/25/2019 at 6:41 PM, quicksilver said:

3 Sep 1987: last keeper change for WGU18G recorded by DVLA

Sep 1987: driven to Sweden, breaks down and is recovered to London

6 Oct 1987: last V5 issued for WGU18G

ah never mind ignore my 1989 comment, (not sure where I got 1989 from then!)

 

[LightBulbFun]

oh and here's a screenshot of the keeper change from my tool

have to say im very perplexed right now!

but also a bit worried someone might be doing something nefarious, to get its number plate or such

I hope that is not the case, and that it has regenerated and will appear once more like a true Timelord  

[Richard_FM]

This has been a real saga trying to find out the history of the ford timelords 

[quicksilver]

MIND. BLOWN. Just when we thought we had the saga nailed down everything changes again! The chances of finding another '68 Galaxie in the UK in 1987 must have been pretty slim but if Jimmy is telling the truth (and for once this does seem convincing) it certainly explains the differences in appearance post-Sweden. The October '87 V5 would tend to imply the registration transfer was done legitimately though, in which case you'd expect WGU 18G to show up as having been re-registered from another plate.

Paul Bickers would no doubt have been a regular visitor to Pinewood in his line of work so he would easily have been able to acquire the car after Jimmy abandoned it there. That fits the narrative but the trouble is, Jon Mace's photos of Timelord at Trancentral in March '91 don't square with Jimmy's claim it was dumped at Pinewood and still covered in white paint after 3AM Eternal three months earlier.

New crazy theory: the car dumped at Trancentral, which was conspicuously devoid of numberplates, was in fact the first JAMsmobile and had been there since 1987 (it was under a tarp so any roof damage that may have been caused by the tree would have been hidden), and the one raced by Paul Bickers was the second, which Jimmy abandoned at Pinewood in late 1990. That keeper change and V5 issued this year muddy the waters further and definitely suggest one of these two cars still exists; if our experience with the Renault is anything to go by the DVLA would require photos of the car and proof of ownership before issuing that V5.

 

Maybe both theories are true after all: one car was banger raced and the other stored away somewhere. Much like the KLF themselves, the deeper you dig the stranger things get.

[Richard_FM]

I did think that the original one could have had been the one photographed in 1991, as that seemed a lose end that needed tying up.

[LightBulbFun]

I just want to say if people dont mind, but the similarities in this thread to my Invacar research make me grin LOL

with all and the sudden twists and turns and new information that changes everything, and now we even have some ringing just for good measure LOL

26 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

in which case you'd expect WGU 18G to show up as having been re-registered from another plate.

it is worth nothing that while my tool can/does show plate history if a vehicle has one, I sadly dont know exactly how far back it goes

I do know it will go back to sept 1987 if @RayMK's relient is is anything to go by  

so I would like to think the Ford timelord would show up with its plate history if it had one

but theres a chance it might not even if it did previously wear a diffrent plate, just keep that in mind!

I know for example it wont go back to whenever this Private AC Acedes was robbed of its number plate (it shows this vehicle as having no plate history but I know this vehicle obviously was robbed of its plate!)

 

 

the question is, who is the new 8th keeper of the ford timelord?!

[Bren]

The thread that keeps on giving.

In these somewhat dark times this brightens my day.

[Datsuncog]

I had like 15 minutes of legit tranquility, thinking this mystery had finally all been squared away - and then the whole thing was dumped on its head again.

A spanking new V5 issued only last Monday for a car believed destroyed 30 years ago, I mean ffs!!!

??

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

I had like 15 minutes of legit tranquility, thinking this mystery had finally all been squared away - and then the whole thing was dumped on its head again.

A spanking new V5 issued only last Monday for a car believed destroyed 30 years ago, I mean ffs!!!

??

not sure if I should be apologizing or not LOL!

[Mrs6C]

10 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

A spanking new V5 issued only last Monday for a car believed destroyed 30 years ago, I mean ffs!!!

“People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey - wimey ... stuff.”

[quicksilver]

After looking at the photos again this still doesn't make sense and I think everything that happened after Sweden involved the same car. Maybe Jimmy was wrong when he said the second was still painted white and left at Pinewood, and it did in fact return to Trancentral and was cleaned up so it is the one used in the 3AM Eternal video, photographed by Jon Mace and then raced by Paul Bickers. Perhaps the remains of the first car weren't scrapped in 1987 but hidden away and have now been rediscovered and bought by a new owner, hence the keeper change and new V5.

Didn't someone claim earlier in this thread that Timelord was seen being taken away from Trancentral when Jimmy moved out in late 1991? How does that fit in and which car was it? More investigation is definitely needed as the information we currently have is that both cars were destroyed 30-odd years ago, the first by the storm in 1987 and the second in the 1991 race, so how come there is anything left to issue a V5 to? Ford Timelord seemingly does have time-travelling abilities after all, and not only that but he may also be able to clone himself!

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Perhaps the remains of the first car weren't scrapped in 1987 but hidden away and have now been rediscovered and bought by a new owner, hence the keeper change and new V5.

but the first car would not be wearing any number plates, assuming its plates where taken directly off the first car and stuck on the 2nd

so all the person would have at best would be a VIN number, so how did said keeper find out the registration number to V62!

I mean there are ways, but no one has asked me to run a ford Galaxie/Custom VIN number LOL

I do wonder on the 8th keeper, I have heard of stories where people have changed/updated the address on their V5 and it ended up getting recorded as keeper changes even if the vehicle never actually changed keeper 

so it could still be registried to Jim Cauty, maybe he is stalking this thread! LOL

I mean if a 3rd party found WGU18G then surely it would have shown up on the internet by now? if someone found THE Ford timelord I imagine would come to light pretty quickly!

21 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

but he may also be able to clone himself!

I was more thinking, more like when the 10th doctor regenerated twice but kept the same appearance  

[mk2_craig]

2 hours ago, quicksilver said:

MIND. BLOWN. Just when we thought we had the saga nailed down everything changes again! The chances of finding another '68 Galaxie in the UK in 1987 must have been pretty slim but if Jimmy is telling the truth (and for once this does seem convincing) it certainly explains the differences in appearance post-Sweden. The October '87 V5 would tend to imply the registration transfer was done legitimately though, in which case you'd expect WGU 18G to show up as having been re-registered from another plate.

Paul Bickers would no doubt have been a regular visitor to Pinewood in his line of work so he would easily have been able to acquire the car after Jimmy abandoned it there. That fits the narrative but the trouble is, Jon Mace's photos of Timelord at Trancentral in March '91 don't square with Jimmy's claim it was dumped at Pinewood and still covered in white paint after 3AM Eternal three months earlier.

New crazy theory: the car dumped at Trancentral, which was conspicuously devoid of numberplates, was in fact the first JAMsmobile and had been there since 1987 (it was under a tarp so any roof damage that may have been caused by the tree would have been hidden), and the one raced by Paul Bickers was the second, which Jimmy abandoned at Pinewood in late 1990. That keeper change and V5 issued this year muddy the waters further and definitely suggest one of these two cars still exists; if our experience with the Renault is anything to go by the DVLA would require photos of the car and proof of ownership before issuing that V5.

 

Maybe both theories are true after all: one car was banger raced and the other stored away somewhere. Much like the KLF themselves, the deeper you dig the stranger things get.

Does make the late 1991 date given by the Trancentral photographer look a bit more plausible. 
 

Unless there was a third one??

[RayMK]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I just want to say if people dont mind, but the similarities in this thread to my Invacar research make me grin LOL

with all and the sudden twists and turns and new information that changes everything, and now we even have some ringing just for good measure LOL

it is worth nothing that while my tool can/does show plate history if a vehicle has one, I sadly dont know exactly how far back it goes

I do know it will go back to sept 1987 if @RayMK's relient is is anything to go by  

so I would like to think the Ford timelord would show up with its plate history if it had one

but theres a chance it might not even if it did previously wear a diffrent plate, just keep that in mind!

I know for example it wont go back to whenever this Private AC Acedes was robbed of its number plate (it shows this vehicle as having no plate history but I know this vehicle obviously was robbed of its plate!)

the question is, who is the new 8th keeper of the ford timelord?!

To legitimise* my response in a thread about a specific Ford Galaxy, a friend of mine drove one (not that one) in the 'States about 35 years ago and was most impressed by its straight line performance. It also got round corners but in an untidy wobbly, squirming way.

LBF: Your tool shows my Reliant as not having any colour changes. That is not the case. It's original  colour was a sort of mid-grey, rather similar to a shiny version of the shade of grey primer. I changed it to blue. I have a letter from the son of the original owner describing where and when it was bought and the reason for the plate change (i.e. owners 1 & 2 were father and son); I've met the third owner - he was the spares secretary of the Raleigh Safety Seven and Early Reliant Owners Club -  and I bought it off the 4th owner in 1992 who lived fairly local to me. I have not had contact with the 3rd and 4th owners since the early 2000s. The 2nd owner's letter was passed to me with the car's history when I bought it. I also know that the original reg went to an Audi Quattro, then a Range Rover, possibly something else, then an IVECO thing .......... which no longer shows up on the DVLA database.

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, RayMK said:

To legitimise* my response in a thread about a specific Ford Galaxy, a friend of mine drove one (not that one) in the 'States about 35 years ago and was most impressed by its straight line performance. It also got round corners but in an untidy wobbly, squirming way.

LBF: Your tool shows my Reliant as not having any colour changes. That is not the case. It's original  colour was a sort of mid-grey, rather similar to a shiny version of the shade of grey primer. I changed it to blue. I have a letter from the son of the original owner describing where and when it was bought and the reason for the plate change (i.e. owners 1 & 2 were father and son); I've met the third owner - he was the spares secretary of the Raleigh Safety Seven and Early Reliant Owners Club -  and I bought it off the 4th owner in 1992 who lived fairly local to me. I have not had contact with the 3rd and 4th owners since the early 2000s. The 2nd owner's letter was passed to me with the car's history when I bought it. I also know that the original reg went to an Audi Quattro, then a Range Rover, possibly something else, then an IVECO thing .......... which no longer shows up on the DVLA database.

ah yeah I would not pay any attention to the colour change or V5 count, those 2 I have found to either be inaccurate or non functional (iv never seen the colour change counter change ever LOL)

but the history is neat  

looks like LCM66 is currently on retention it was last on an IVECO now wearing its original plate SN55CKX 

 

[Pieman]

WOAH!  That's just put a whole new twist on things - is Timelord alive??

I have a couple of spur-of-the-moment theories here - the first is that @Philmanns has managed to obtain the original WGU 18G plate for his replica, as I think he mentioned he was trying to do.

The second is that, and i know this sounds unlikely, Paul Bickers never did scrap the car after racing it in 1991, and it really has been stored away at his yard for all these years, and after our research has decided to do something about it.

I think I need to start making phone calls again.

[JB77]

I only seen the post about the v5 and started thinking its funny how given the enquiries being made about the car over the last year or so and the people that were involved with the cars past being asked questions then suddenly theres been some activity with the v5. Could we be expecting something amazing or is there a simple explanation? With regards to the second Galaxie being red, on one of the Swaffham banger race photo`s, the one with the bloke standing on the passenger side of the car, if you look at the area by the scuttle panel there looks like red paint where the dashboard would have been.

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, JB77 said:

With regards to the second Galaxie being red, on one of the Swaffham banger race photo`s, the one with the bloke standing on the passenger side of the car, if you look at the area by the scuttle panel there looks like red paint where the dashboard would have been.

 

ah good spot  exactly what I was looking for so to speak, something to either back up or disprove the or one of the cars being red at some point

the more solid data points we can confirm/get the more things should hopefully come together and info that was previously floating around will suddenly fall into place etc!

 

 (although I do wonder if the car was bright red originally and given the rather poor state of the paintwork by the time of the photo i would expect some of that bright red to have been showing through in places unless they specifically went out of their way to patch up those spots?)

[strangeangel]

Fark! This was a thread and a half, don't know how I missed it until now. Top work throughout, the only thing I would add (in the spirit of the forensic detective work displayed thus far) is Jimmy Cauty's erstwhile band-mate in Brilliant - Martin 'Youth' Glover - was never the front man in Killing Joke. That was - and still is - Jaz Coleman. Youth was KJ's bass player. He left/was fired (who knows?) in the early 80s and was replaced by Paul Raven, only to re-take his position in the band after Raven passed away in 2007. An astonishing band that still - as described by an NME hack of the day - sound like a gasometer falling on your head.

 

 

If you've never heard them, you really should.

 

[LightBulbFun]

8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

ah never mind ignore my 1989 comment, (not sure where I got 1989 from then!)

ah realised I got 1989 in my head as thats when (at the time of writing anyway!) WGU18G was last taxed  

[quicksilver]

After a night of thought I'm leaning back to the Trancentral car being the first one. The only trouble is that Jimmy said it was damaged beyond repair and most of its panels were put on the red one, but that car is complete and has no visible damage so maybe we should take that bit with a pinch of salt. The red paint in the Swaffham pics is a great spot that seems to confirm this one was the red replacement; there's likely no red paint on the outside because it needed so much new metal it was mostly repainted for the race. Ideally we need to see the offside front corner that got crumpled in Doctorin' the Tardis but unfortunately that isn't visible in any of the Trancentral or Swaffham photos we've seen. Even more unlikely but a look at the pedals would also confirm as he said the first car was manual and the second automatic.

If the Trancentral car is indeed the original then it makes sense of a few things after Swaffham: Jon Mace's October 1991 date could now be correct, the report of it being taken to storage when Jimmy moved out is possible and it supports the claims that Timelord was the intended victim of the '92 charity race and/or the Bluebird over the cliff. As for identifying it to get the V5 with no numberplates, if it was discovered by a KLF fan they would already know the registration and assuming the identity swap wasn't done by the book this car's VIN would match what's on the record so no V62 required. It's odd that there's been no publicity but maybe the new keeper is keeping it secret for now and has something planned for a reveal later on; in an ideal scenario we need to find the person who has that V5!

[JB77]

Would this be any good Quicksilver? At 0.18 and 0.30 in the video theres an interior shot that shows the shifter on the column and doesnt look like a clutch pedal to be seen.

 

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, quicksilver said:

if it was discovered by a KLF fan they would already know the registration and assuming the identity swap wasn't done by the book this car's VIN would match what's on the record so no V62 required. It's odd that there's been no publicity but maybe the new keeper is keeping it secret for now and has something planned for a reveal later on; in an ideal scenario we need to find the person who has that V5!

thats a very good point, I was not thinking that one through LOL (its pretty damn obvious what the car is just from the outside, not like it looks like other ford galaxies/Customs LOL)

but if Reg swap was not done by the book then the VIN on the car would NOT match whats on the V5 (unless they updated the VIN on the V5 at some point? although certain details make me think they didn't do that) since the VIN on the V5 would be that of the first car

and to get a V5, if you don't have the previous V5 or its been lost you always have to V62, and if the details don't match they more often then not wont send you a V5

(see the adventures of Q231PVL/MPH759P on my thread for an example of that!)

the only time you can ring the DVLA and say "give me a V5 please" is if you have lost your V5 and none of your details have changed

then they can do it all over the phone and charge the £25 via your bank card, rather then via cheque!

 

14 hours ago, quicksilver said:

if our experience with the Renault is anything to go by the DVLA would require photos of the car and proof of ownership before issuing that V5.

as a side note this is interesting, I wonder what dictates if the DVLA asks someone for such photos and proof of ownership?

im pretty sure @Mrs6C did not need to do such when V62 Dolly and Molly, but I could be mistaken 

perhaps its to do with how long the vehicle has been dormant for, or maybe like with all things DVLA its just down to whoever your V62 lands with on the other end!

[quicksilver]

9 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

but if Reg swap was not done by the book then the VIN on the car would NOT match whats on the V5 (unless they updated the VIN on the V5 at some point?) since the VIN on the V5 would be that of the first car

 

You've misunderstood this bit, I think this is the first car that has been hidden since 1987 so its details will match the V5 for the 'real' WGU 18G. It was the second 'fake' WGU 18G that was raced by Paul Bickers.

I've just looked at the V62 form and it doesn't mention anything about proof of ownership or even proof of existence. There surely must be some requirement for proof though as there would be nothing to stop anyone getting a V5 for any old extinct vehicle that could be used for all sorts of nefarious purposes. Maybe if the DVLA get a V62 for a long-untaxed vehicle with no supporting evidence, at that point they start asking the applicant questions; we included photos and a receipt with the V62 and that was obviously enough to satisfy them straightaway.

[egg]

8 hours ago, strangeangel said:

An astonishing band that still - as described by an NME hack of the day - sound like a gasometer falling on your head.

KJ have been helping me through the lockdown with Jaz's apocalyptic visions of the future*. I can imagine Cauty and Youth getting on well, they share an 'against the grain' kind of spirit.

I reckon Cauty has renewed the V5 - he did mention he thought it was still in his name...

[quicksilver]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

I reckon Cauty has renewed the V5 - he did mention he thought it was still in his name...

Possible, but why the keeper change in February though? LBF said a change of address can sometimes register as a change of keeper but I'd expect that to be on the same date, not 2 months before. Also, why bother applying for a new V5 for a car that apparently hasn't existed for 30 years? Maybe Mr Cauty knows more than he's letting on, he's fully aware one of the Galaxies still exists and is registered to him, and has plans to do something with it?

[LightBulbFun]

28 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

You've misunderstood this bit, I think this is the first car that has been hidden since 1987 so its details will match the V5 for the 'real' WGU 18G. It was the second 'fake' WGU 18G that was raced by Paul Bickers.

ah whoops no I got it the first time then overlooked it the second time, but to be fair I have yet to finish my morning hot chocolate so give me a chance!  

but yeah then you could just V62!

28 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

I've just looked at the V62 form and it doesn't mention anything about proof of ownership or even proof of existence. There surely must be some requirement for proof though as there would be nothing to stop anyone getting a V5 for any old extinct vehicle that could be used for all sorts of nefarious purposes. Maybe if the DVLA get a V62 for a long-untaxed vehicle with no supporting evidence, at that point they start asking the applicant questions; we included photos and a receipt with the V62 and that was obviously enough to satisfy them straightaway.

Yeah there's nothing to stop someone V62'ing (or at least trying to) for any old vehicle as long as they have the reg number and VIN!

which is why in the more recent times I have been a little twitchy when it comes to VIN numbers in my thread!

 

21 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

Possible, but why the keeper change in February though? LBF said a change of address can sometimes register as a change of keeper but I'd expect that to be on the same date, not 2 months before. Also, why bother applying for a new V5 for a car that apparently hasn't existed for 30 years? Maybe Mr Cauty knows more than he's letting on and he's fully aware one of the Galaxies still exists and is registered to him?

its worth noting that's just what iv heard in the passing on this forum, I have sadly not been able to verify it or such, but I figured id mention as something to keep in mind etc

(no ones given me a registration and or VIN number of a car where they had this happen for me to research sadly)

but indeed it is interesting that the keeper change happened in February but the last V5 was issued in april

however it could simply be that the V62 or what have you took its sweet time to process, or that the "new keeper" simply took his time in filling out and sending off the V62 the "keeper acquisition" date in this case would be/is from whatever you put down on the V62 etc

 

a good example of this is @Mrs6C's Milk Float which she acquired back in November 2019, but only shows the last V5 as being issued this month, as it was only recently V62ed  despite having been acquired some months prior

 

(who is now showing as SORN ) 

 

 

I was thinking the V5 date for the timelord could also be when whoever it is, changed the taxation class to historic vehicle, but that would require the vehicle be taxed!