Marmite

[Joloke]

Camp Coffee

[SiC]

I'll be extremely surprised if 98RON disappears. Many German cars, even mundane ones, need it otherwise they run crap. High performance ones require it. I believe a lot of the performance stuff too is not E10 compatible. I know certain stuff like the early FSI petrols (late Golf MK4 and early Golf Mk5) must not be run on E10 and they really need 98RON.

 

Even my TT is supposed to be run on 98RON.

[Junkman]

They have this 10% ethanol fuel in Trumpistan for over a decade now.

Consequently every old car in existence there has meanwhile exploded in spectacular fashion.

Hence, if I were you, I'd panic, run in circles and scream.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. This is going to annihilate old cars the same way leaving out the lead did.

 

UZ IZ d00mt!

[Aston Martin]

I can't wait for charlatans selling E10 booster for £34.99.

[Junkman]

Buy shares now!

[MorrisItalSLX]

We have had E10 in Australia for years now, Leaded pumps became E10 pumps.

 

We will never ban 95 or 98 here because people still, and will continue to buy it for its better performance.

[Guest Hooli]

What is the point of E10?

 

It's so much worse for power and MPG you end up using as much real petrol anyway even allowing for it being diluted with the ethanol shite.

[MorrisItalSLX]

What is the point of E10?

 

It is (slightly) more eco-friendly to produce. That's it.

[Jim Bell]

Is it not a safety concern that its likely to cause leaks, fires and deaths when used in older vehicles?

[chaseracer]

Potentially, if sensible periodic checks are not made.  Luckily, the MOT test is still mandatory for all vehicles.

 

Ah....

[artdjones]

It is (slightly) more eco-friendly to produce. That's it.

Yes,it is fermented from crops grown in a world where people are still starving.

[Junkman]

What is the point of E10?

 

To enable the ten percent of mankind who own 90% of the wealth amass a lot more wealth in a very short time.

[Lacquer Peel]

Yes,it is fermented from crops grown in a world where people are still starving.

We produce more food than the world needs already, a hell of a lot of it is wasted.

[Dan_ZTT]

Yes, tis mostly a distribution problem rather than overall lack of food. Still seems pointless faffing about with crops for fuel though when in a few years time 90% of cars will be powered by wind farms. Or something.

[Uncle Jimmy]

As far as I know....you get more bang for your buck with ethanol, it raises Octane level and has a higher calorific value than petrol.

Up to 10% ethanol is not generally thought to cause any issues with rubber hoses, solder, brass and other materials used in older cars; in the States I believe they are already using 15% ethanol and had some issues- all of which can be resolved!

[SiC]

I can't wait for charlatans selling E10 booster for £34.99.

Snake oil already exists: https://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-corrosion-inhibitor-additive-ethanol-protection.html

[Guest Conan]

Okay lemme give a bit of insight on this matter.

 

In my country (seems to be a trend with my last few posts), we produce a lot of sugar that gets turn into Ethanol, thus the ethanol fuel has been the standard for many many years now. Starting with E10 for at least 15 years now, then E85 and E20 for a bit over 10 years. People have put that shit in so many machines on the road which produce a lot of different results. Some people have issue with crud in the bottom of the tank clogging the injectors and fuel leak from various rubber components.

 

But we must not forget that a lot of it would happen anyway even though the car's been running with proper petrol for it's whole life. Rubber components deteriorates, that's just life. You cannot expect the rubber fuel line to last 30 years without perishing when your tyres would dry rotted completely in 5.

 

In W124 circle especially, people have the general consensus that is, if your car is a KE-Jetronic model it would be not advisable to run the Ethanol, while the later twin cam model would be okay. But then those who've ran the KE-Jetronic strictly on no ethanol petrol starts having issue with diaphragms too and then there's the reproduction, upgraded stuff that seems to be universal and working quite fine with even 20% Ethanol now. I myself used E20 stuff in my W124 with great success. As near as no difference in consumption or acceleration.

 

Ethanol does have it's issue. It absorbs water and shit thus making your tank rust and clogging the injectors, and it has way shorter shelf life than non ethanol fuel. But all of that isn't an issue if you keep running your car at least once or twice a week even if your car is old, carburettor-ed model. A lot of the problems was sourced to the car standing still, which of course is such a life with classic cars when they're driven maybe once a month or bi monthly. That's where a lot of the problem stemmed from but even then it's just shortern the already limited ability of cars to stand unused.

 

While yes, it's no magic juice. And the plantation for it absolutely wrecks the soil. But speaking on the consumer level there's nothing to be scared of with just 10% of the stuff. Or even 20% of the stuff. Unless you drive an old distributor equipped car that requires 98 Octane of the pure stuff and the best commonly available is 95 with 10% Ethanol like yours truly. Running lean is a problem for JDM 4A-GE running on 95 with Ethanol. A remap for E10 or E20 would goes a long way to make my car runs better but to be honest I couldn't be bothered when it's running fine as it is.

 

But the other point is a bit more worrying. That the 97+ Octane would be superseded. Now that's what you should be worried because you will get issues similar to the above paragraph. Most modern car would be able to adjust to the Octane rating and not pinging like mad. So again, it's a problem with old cars (especially those which needed 4-star back in the day). I guess that just like the leaded petrol that was removed years ago, if you're an enthusiast and absolutely needed such special fuel but do not wish to make modifications that'd make it suitable, you'd have to go with additives route.

[Guest Hooli]

It is (slightly) more eco-friendly to produce. That's it.

 

That's my point though.

 

You get worse MPG on it so end up using as much real petrol (the 90%) as you would anyway plus the 10% plant shite. I'm basing that on knowing my bike does 10-15% worse MPG on E10 compared to proper petrol.

[Partridge]

A new "greener" grade of petrol, E10, is on the way with 10% ethanol. A great way to meet air quality targets and to keep the polar bear lickers happy, or another ploy to force us off the road and into the credit system, making us all work 9-5 office jobs selling Chinese paperclips or something, to pay for our 318ds? I can't see this being good news for us, either way.

 

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/130329_%28revised%29_ALL_ACEA_SAAB_JAMA_E10_COMPATIBILITY.pdf

 

I'm sure it will all blow over, in much the same way many got around the introduction of unleaded by retarding their timing, but I am worried about this. The government have our back as ever, and have promised to keep the current grade in forecourts until 2020.  But judging by that list on the ACEA's website, '90% of us will not have compatible cars (unless you drive an old Mercedes or an X300).

 

Does this mean that we have only two years left to enjoy our shite?

 

Discuss!

[DaveDorson]

it's fuel lines, diaphragms and o rings that suffer with E-added fuel I understand.

 

I also understand places in South America have been using ethanol high fuels for some time, even on older chod.

[Talbot]

Does this mean that we have only two years left to enjoy our shite?

No:

The European Fuel Quality Directive (1) requires that countries of the European Union that introduce E10 petrol must ensure that sufficient volumes of today’s petrol (sometimes described as E5) are available for vehicles that are not compatible with the use of E10 petrol

[PiperCub]

FYI - Esso Premium (or whatever it's called) is the only ethanol-free (E0) petrol I know of. Don't know how long that'll last for though. 

[castros_bro]

Years ago living in Belém Para Brasil (doing oil exploration) almost every private vehicle ran on hydrous ethanol fuel (E100) and though were mostly VW Beetle based engines there was the technology and knowledge to make stuff which didn't dissolve in  ethanol so it shouldn't be that difficult to get suitable materials over here if a bit of effort it put into it.

[RayMK]

it's fuel lines, diaphragms and o rings that suffer with E-added fuel I understand.

 

I also understand places in South America have been using ethanol high fuels for some time, even on older chod.

 

Also, the material from which the tank is made can become critical.  Ethanol loaded fuels absorb water thus causing mild steel tanks to rust more quickly particularly if the vehicle is used infrequently or over few miles per year.  It will also attack galvanised steel. Motorcycles with fibreglass or plastic tanks may suffer catastrophic leakage because ethanol will dissolve/soften most of the older plastics and resins.  Additionally, ethanol will increase the tendency of vehicles prone to vapour locking to do so at lower temperatures than before.  Fossil fuels may be environmentally dirty but what about the energy required to harvest and process ethanol bearing crops?  The fields so used will not help the starving either.  Overall, no problem then.

[mercrocker]

There are additives also.   Remember all the wrist-wringing and wailing about unleaded?   Must have done about 50,000 in A series and B series since the last time either of them saw Octel.   My hairline, sills, bank balance and chances of ever being rich have all receded, but as far as I know none of my valve seats have yet. 

 

Stainless steel tanks and upgraded synthetics for diaphragms, filters and the like won't be any more hardship than perished shit rubber or rusty mild steel I shouldn't think, anyway.... 

 

We all know its bullshit but the gummints have set their course and they of course know best.   I ain't worrying about it yet.....

[Fabergé Greggs]

The litmus test of true shite is that it will plod on regardless.

[cort1977]

They rolled this out in Germany years ago, they have a very similar fleet to the UK and didn't have any issues so I'm going to call it a silly season 'war on the motorist' non-story.

[vulgalour]

It offers moderate concern at present.  Hopefully nothing more serious than that.

[Uncle Jimmy]

E10 has been around for years hasn't it?

As I've said here previously, it doesn't mean all or even a majority of petrol will contain ethanol and I've yet to buy any ethanol fuel.

[RayMK]

My most recent visits to Germany (2011 and 2013) were interesting* in that there were very few older cars on the road.  The UK is nicely backward in that respect.