invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[somewhatfoolish]

Google presumably took you here and here; a visit in person would get you a look at their copies but copyright fun police means copying them is not likely to be allowed. Perhaps contact this lot and see if they have a copy in the archive?

I also meandered off into the BL and found this and this.

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Google presumably took you here and here; a visit in person would get you a look at their copies but copyright fun police means copying them is not likely to be allowed. Perhaps contact this lot and see if they have a copy in the archive?

I also meandered off into the BL and found this and this.

ohh  very nice find!

ill keep em in mind for when I get mobile with REV  

I found this as the first result when googling the name, curiously the google preview text shows mention of the book but nothing is to be found in the webpage it self sadly

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/173006/pdf

 

further sleuthing required me thinks!

[somewhatfoolish]

That's not a book, it's a journal article; if you register here you can read it for free, although it's not clear whether that means joe public or academics only. Freelance Model 70 archivist is practically academic.

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

That's not a book, it's a journal article; if you register here you can read it for free, although it's not clear whether that means joe public or academics only. Freelance Model 70 archivist is practically academic.

aye I knew such, just interesting that it shows up in the little google preview text whatever that its called

but does not show up anywhere on the page itself, so I wonder where google is getting that text from

side note I had another look at the virtual gaz invacar page and the book is actually mentioned near the bottom as a source  http://www.virtualgaz.com/invacarpage.htm

[somewhatfoolish]

Google presumably has the ability to search the text despite it not being available to read without permission, which given it's an academic resource makes perfect sense.

[egg]

@LightBulbFun, @somewhatfoolish I have an academic login, and have downloaded the 29 page text. I will email it to you Dez - happy for you to summarise on here, but please don't publish the full text

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, egg said:

@LightBulbFun, @somewhatfoolish I have an academic login, and have downloaded the 29 page text. I will email it to you Dez - happy for you to summarise on here, but please don't publish the full text

ah thank you very much! I look forward to reading it and seeing what it contains  

[Datsuncog]

I appreciate it's a well-known car that's already been mentioned on this thread multiple times, but MHJ22P put in another guest appearance on Instagram tonight.

Good to see it's still out and about, anyway!

[LightBulbFun]

20 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

I appreciate it's a well-known car that's already been mentioned on this thread multiple times, but MHJ22P put in another guest appearance on Instagram tonight.

Good to see it's still out and about, anyway!

ah yeah I had seen it also, I appreciate the heads up tho  im curious where it was papped at, given its owned by @st185cs im sure he can enlighten us  

 

Had my 4th lesson today  

did some more of what I did on Tuesday, but a good bit of it was also just me driving around "on my own" with him the car obviously but he let me choose my own way make my own decisions etc 

im guessing he wanted to assess how I was progressing, was a little bit nerve wracking in itself, because im not familiar with the area we are in, esp not by car, so I was a bit worried about turning off somewhere I shouldn't go (like onto a busy main road!) but he said he would let me know if I was about to

and also trying to figure out where you want to go/turn and making your mind up before you get there so you can start indicating for it Before you actually get to the junction etc!

he also discussed asking about how im feeling regarding to venturing out of the quiet area, and onto the busier streets, not sure im quite ready for that, im still quite nervous about the idea mingling with London traffic

im just worried about being a nuisance on the road if im too slow to pull out of a junction or something, I already had a couple people go around me when I was a bit slow in the quiet area that im currently learning in

to be fair to myself I know most people who have had their licences for 20+ years also don't want to venture into London traffic, so I guess I should cut myself some slack for being nervous about the idea

then there's also the continuing fun of how much you actually have to do when turning at or pulling out of junctions etc, id get something down pat, like positioning the car properly for turning left, then realised after i have come to a stop at the junction oh yeah *flick* indicators, when I should of started signaling much further back, then at the next junction id remember to indicate on time, but then realise iv not got the car positioned correctly etc or something along those lines LOL

ah well all in good time as they say!

I just look forward to when things start becoming muscle memory etc, as I dont like how I keep forgetting to do one thing or the other! maybe im just being a bit hard on myself at what is a relatively early stage!

 

next lesson is on Tuesday  and for @Zelandeth here is the Tesla Model 3

(will try and get a better shot of its reg next time! im curious to see what it shows up on the DVLA as)

[bezzabsa]

that green thing posted earlier looks like a squashed Regal!!!!!

[plasticvandan]

I've got one of those books,it's more a booklet really,a4 size,and was a run of only around 150 I think,I might have a photocopy somewhere.

[LightBulbFun]

47 minutes ago, bezzabsa said:

that green thing posted earlier looks like a squashed Regal!!!!!

its a Prototype AC "Town car"

sadly very little is known about them, there where 3 Prototypes, while all 3 thankfully survive, sadly all 3 have seemingly been exported out of the country..

its thought they were a City car based on the Model 70 chassis (they were certainly Steyr puch powered)

I would love to know more about them, just how many parts are from the Model 70 etc  (it would also be very interesting to see how they handled/drove compared to a Model 70, especially the 4 wheeler, which also has a 650cc engine)

 

its a shame they never went into production, I think they are pretty neat

I do wonder if the supposedly high cost of the Model 70 platform is what may of been what put paid to them

keeping in mind that the Model 70 was very much built up to a spec, rather then down to a price, which while is good for building a vehicle that keeps the government happy and ensuring that its built like a brick dunny, is sadly not how the low end budget car market works!

 

57 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

I've got one of those books,it's more a booklet really,a4 size,and was a run of only around 150 I think,I might have a photocopy somewhere.

I figured such, much like Stuarts small book

would still be very interested in having a read of the books  

I wonder if the 1985 edition mentions exact production numbers for the Model 70? as by then the Model 70 would of been out of production

[plasticvandan]

The 85 edition is basically an a5 reprint. I will check my copies as I do believe some models do have numbers quoted.i was lucky in that my dad picked up an original 1970s one at an auto jumble for a pound when I was much younger,this was almost pre ICR,certainly before Stuart took over,so I had never seen or heard of it before,and couldn't believe such a book existed,I've treasured it ever since!

 

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

The 85 edition is basically an a5 reprint. I will check my copies as I do believe some models do have numbers quoted.i was lucky in that my dad picked up an original 1970s one at an auto jumble for a pound when I was much younger,this was almost pre ICR,certainly before Stuart took over,so I had never seen or heard of it before,and couldn't believe such a book existed,I've treasured it ever since!

 

yes that's quite a find!  aye I know at least supposedly production numbers of the Model 57 64 and 67 are quoted in there, though I do wonder where exactly they got the numbers from etc!

I wonder what compelled the authors to write such a book, I cant imagine especially in the 1970s that a Book about invalid vehicles would of been particularly popular/sought after!

not that im complaining! 

(im guessing sadly the authors are sadly no longer around given the dates of the books? id love to contact them and ask them many questions!)

[plasticvandan]

It was written as an epitaph really by members of the dda,who would have joined when if was the ita,as a farewell/historical record,and was only available through the dda I think,so not mainstream.

[LightBulbFun]

17 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

It was written as an epitaph really by members of the dda,who would have joined when if was the ita,as a farewell/historical record,and was only available through the dda I think,so not mainstream.

very interesting  

(for those who don't know ITA was the invalid tricycle association which as @plasticvandan alludes to became the DDA)

I wonder if John, the previous owner of REV has a copy, he was quite heavily involved with Invacars and knew Dennis and Marion webb well. ill have to fire off an email in time

[Eyersey1234]

The headlights on that silver one look a similar shape to the headlights that were on my stepdad's old Metro City, though on the Metro they were recessed. 

 

Not my picture and not the actual car but its the same colour as his one. 

 

[Mrs6C]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:10 PM, quicksilver said:

Have you seen this? Invacar-related content in a Jalopnik article trying to identify Crazy Vaclav's 'put it in H' car from The Simpsons! https://jalopnik.com/lets-really-figure-out-what-that-put-it-in-h-car-from-1825057867

Sadly they have their Harpers and Invacars muddled up but interesting nonetheless. My own theory is that it was a design for an improved Model 71 Invacar that was sold to the Eastern Bloc when the DHSS stopped the invalid vehicle scheme

Looks like a Mk12 to me, with the fins at the rear!

Stuart's 'little book' has arrived, which is a fascinating read.

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

Looks like a Mk12 to me, with the fins at the rear!

Stuart's 'little book' has arrived, which is a fascinating read.

yeah I did think that, however the front end is much more AC like  

if it is really based off an invalid vehicle, I imagine whoever was responsible for designing it probably just googled or pulled up a bunch of different invalid vehicle pictures and used different elements from each type  

 

happy to hear you got stuarts small book, indeed it is! I look forward very much to the big book when that comes out  

 

BTW I have been wondering about the whole parallelogram front suspension thing

its stated in the small book that it was introduced with the Acedes Mk14, and that then Invacar was forced to adopt it, resulting in a bit later on the Invacar Mk12E (well the book does not say Invacar was forced to adopt it, however in a couple places elsewhere on the internet stuart mentions they where)

however as seen by the pictures I got of a Mk14, and the DHSS parts Book, its clear that the Parallelogram suspension was only introduced with the Mk15, with the Mk14 having C Tube suspension Like other invalid vehicles of the Time

 

now I sadly don't know exactly when the AC Acedes Mk15 was introduced, but I do know a couple things

1 the Invacar Mk12E definitely looks to have been introduced by April 1969, as I know of a couple survivors from then

and 2 I know of WPK129G, which was first registered January 1969, and im pretty sure its a Mk14A, because I have a picture of WPK62G, and you can quite clearly see the front mould lines and lack of towing "eye" that make the Mk14 (and I suspect its a Mk14A based on how late it is for a Mk14)

so that means the AC Acedes Mk15, must of been introduced after January 1969,

which makes me wonder if the AC Acedes Mk15 and Invacar Mk12E where introduced at roughly the same time, and I wonder if it was because, by April 1969 the Model 70 was very much in development, and I wonder if the DHSS saw front the parallelogram front suspension design of the Model 70, and requested it be fitted to existing Models in production?

therefore forcing Both Invacar and AC at the same time to adapt their vehicles for it resulting in the AC Acedes Mk15 and Invacar Mk12E at the same time? (although worth noting that the Model 64 only gained parallelogram suspension with the Model 64 Mk5 in June 1970 starting with CPH29H, but the Model 64 was a much more niche vehicle then the others)

the whole suspension thing is just a theory/hunch of mine, Iv passed it onto stuart, im curious to seeing what he thinks of it!

 

the oldest Mk15 I know that shows up on the DVLA is BPK646H, the newest (and well only that I know of!) Mk14 to show up is WPK129G

I may do some block hunting at some point, between WPK-G and BPK-H (so Wxx Xxx Yxx Axx Bxx) see if I can figure anything out that way, Ie when exactly was the Acedes Mk15 was introduced etc

but there's a lot of surry markers, PA PB PC PD PE PF PG PH PJ PK PL PM 

12 if im counting correctly combined with the 5 leading letters is 60 registration serieses, which even in jumps of 200 (since ACs are generally registered in blocks of 200) will take a fair while!

esp given how fewer normal cars from the period show up still, which makes block hunting even more time consuming because if I go from say REG123 then go up 100 say to REG223 and REG223 turns up nothing, I have to jog one by one backwards and then forward until something shows to make sure I have or have not just landed in the middle of an invalid vehicle block, and that can add a lot of time to the process! (and thats assuming once I do "find" a block that any still show up!, out of 200 cars, WPK129G is the only from its block to show up still for example!)

its a good way to kill time at least esp with some good music cued up  

[LightBulbFun]

On 7/30/2013 at 11:20 PM, Wilko220 said:

In tribute to the closure of the Transit factory...

 

 

 

side note its interesting to note that these 2 F512PLA and H379FLD

On 12/20/2012 at 9:41 PM, cms206 said:

Keeping the road going theme, British Airways' Lansing P200s were all road registered; the two used by BA Cargo at Glasgow were F512 PLA and H379 FLD...

 

British Airways - H379 FLD by cms206, on Flickr

 

have body type down as "Airport Support Unit"

where as this 2, Q676ATV and Q677ATV have the body type down as "Not Recorded", as in both my websites that tell me body type both say "Not recorded" so im lead to belive thats what it says on the V5 too (in times where iv come across a vehicle that seemingly has nothing down for body type, 1 website will just return an empty field for body type, where as the other website will return "NOT CODABLE" whatever that means!)

(also for @quicksilver on the whole "reliant" thing!)

On 3/11/2019 at 11:08 PM, cms206 said:

As an aside we used to run a pair of Q-reg Douglas DC8s (Q676/7 ATV) which were registered as Reliants; I reckon they were about as far removed from a Rialto as you could feasably get.

and on the note of all of this I have wondered when it comes to the "Body Type" field on the V5, or V55/4 etc

is there specific wording you have to put there, or can you put anything you like?

(obviously in keeping with that the vehicle is!)

I wonder because of the many vehicles I have checked, for a given vehicle type, the body type always has the same wording

"Saloon"

"invalid vehicle"

"Tricycle" 

etc

which makes me think that there is certain wording you have to follow, I was thinking if you could put anything down you would see more variations or more typos!

(but I can't say I have seen "airport support unit" before!)

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, SiC said:

 

Long shot you didn't happen to ask the owner of this Olds where the Number plate originated from?

the reason ask is I suspect its off an AC Model 57 invalid tricycle!

I know of 897PE the special 8fter

 

and 1940PE, a survivor,

now sadly I dont know exactly how the blocks worked with 2 letter registration numbers

but I have this picture, I know its 5154, but im not sure if its 5154PE or 5154PF, 

now the reason I mention all of this is because if its 5154PE then theres a good chance that 5000PE was also, an AC Model 57, and if that Model 57 was plate raped in the 1980s when this whole number plate thing started kicking off, then theres a chance it might survive somewhere! much like the story of @RayMK's reliant  

just long a shot but i am curious about it  

[SiC]

8 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Long shot you didn't happen to ask the owner of this Olds where the Number plate originated from?

I'm not really the type of person who asks someone who got their number plate from...

[busmansholiday]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

now sadly I dont know exactly how the blocks worked with 2 letter registration numbers

Basically the same as three letters. So take Sheffield.

Started with 1WA which went to 9999WA. Then the next Sheffield code which was WB so 1WB to 9999WB, then the next, WE, then WJ. 

1925WA, 3156 & 3904WE, 6330 & 8784WJ all still exist.

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Basically the same as three letters. So take Sheffield.

Started with 1WA which went to 9999WA. Then the next Sheffield code which was WB so 1WB to 9999WB, then the next, WE, then WJ. 

1925WA, 3156 & 3904WE, 6330 & 8784WJ all still exist.

Oh I know that much, but I appreciate the info  

what I meant is AC/Invacar specific because a 2 digit registration series is much bigger its 10 thousand reg numbers big

where as a 3 digit registration is only 1000 regs big

now with 1 exception that I know of (LOO1P-LOO4P and LOO142P-LOO151P blocks)

per reg series there will only be 1 block of invalid vehicles

but since the 2 letter registration setup is much larger, I dont know if this rule holds true or not

take 897PE and 1940PE, there 1043 registration numbers apart, which is way bigger than any known block, and I doubt every vehicle between the 2 was an AC Acedes Model 57!

so I suspect they may of been part of 2 separate blocks if this all makes sense LOL

but I don't know exactly how many blocks would be in a 2 digit reg series etc if there are multiple blocks to a 2 digit reg series 

 

side note 1940PE is now showing Taxed and due, when before It was showing Tax not due...

 

[busmansholiday]

28 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I suspect they may of been part of 2 separate blocks if this all makes sense

Yep, seems sensible when you think that for every 1000 registrations it's the equivalent of moving up a letter if it was a three letter reg.

[Mrs6C]

In the photo, it looks like 5154PF to me...

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Yep, seems sensible when you think that for every 1000 registrations it's the equivalent of moving up a letter if it was a three letter reg.

ah yeah that's a good way of thinking about it!

its a shame the DVLA have so few online records for registrations that far back or id have a bash and see what I could find!

I really do appreciate info/pointers you have given me over this whole registration numbers/blocks thing 

its helped me out immensely with my invalid vehicle research etc  and has been very valuable towards figuring out the history of things and also the ID of unknown vehicles!

I have to say its a bit surreal to look at a registration number, that to most people its just a random collection of letters and numbers, maybe they might know about the Year prefix/suffix thing

but then to me for it to actually mean something/make sense, to know why REV451R is REV451R for example, what each part means of it why R why EV why 451 etc, its like breaking the enigma code almost LOL

 

10 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

In the photo, it looks like 5154PF to me...

yeah I was thinking it looks more like an F then an E but im not 100% sure

I do know that 850PJ is the start of the Mk3 AC Model 64, for what thats worth

[LightBulbFun]

Just sadly realised, that due to the fact AC Model 57's and 64's where made of aluminium, that they had a high scrap value

so unlike fibreglass cars like rays reliant,  I imagine would of meant that any Model 57/64's that where plated raped where probably scrapped soon after rather then left sit

(which is what Stuart suspects happened to Model 57 whos ID  "ALB761A" is wearing, it will be quite interesting to see what its original registration number was)

but one can always be hopeful!

[LightBulbFun]

last night/today has been very exciting as I have been tipped off by @st185cs 

of 4 more surviving Model 70's that were not on any survivors list  

I have the owners contact details and will be making contact with the owner for more details, and to make sure the V62 application is done correctly, from what I have seen so far sadly, SVW48R and SPU145M are the victims of Approved repairers doing things London Transport style, with the "bonus" thing, that whichever AR looked after these, actually updated the chassis numbers on the V5 too, which explains why I could not pull SPU145Ms chassis number when I came across SPU145M a few months back, because it had a 4 digit chassis number from an AC Model 70! 

On 8/24/2019 at 1:05 PM, LightBulbFun said:

sad woo, it a post 2001 survivor, but sadly returns an error on my Reg to Chassis site, which either means the Chassis number is shorter than 5 digits which I have not seen before for on an Invacar Model 70, or its just one of the few post 2001's that return no VIN number on my tools for whatever reason

(I have come across a hand full like that before, when the blueprint and other sites worked)

anyways now to figure out where the SPU-M block starts and ends

 

anyways heres the pictures

SPU145M, note that its even wearing an AC badge still! I think its actually GPF282N

this one is actually KPC538P, although im still waiting for pictures of the actual chassis numbers to verify

SVW48R is another swap the chassis and reg plates onto a good Model 70 victim, I believe its actually GTW614N

and finally VJN960S, again one I believe to be genuinely VJN960S, but still waiting to verify

 

but yeah its not everyday 4 new survivor Model 70s pop up!, goes to show 16 years later they are still coming out of the woodwork slowly, really does make you wonder what's still out there  

also very surreal for me, as I remember looking up SPU145M and VJN960S when going through the Reg blocks as they were 2003-2004 survivors so I could pull their chassis numbers, or at least try to with SPU!, and I did mentioned at one point that I wondered how many of these 1000s of Model 70's I have looked up, are still out there somewhere surviving unknown to us!

if someone could find BPE29H that would be amazing LOL

 

it does turn out that I had actually been somewhat aware of these 4 Model 70's I just did not know their registration numbers

unsurprisingly Fraser is trying to buy 2, and has been for a good couple years now, luckily it looks like the current owner wants to keep all 4 and do them up, fraser knew of them but did not know of their numbers etc

 

I dont want fraser to get anymore Model 70's given his history of just selling them off for profit/doing them up unesserly when there are other Model 70's that where/are much more needing of attention

 

 

also as a side note

its REV451Rs 43rd birthday today, as she was registered on the 5th of November 1976  

(I find it funny that a car built for the government, but bought privately was registered on the day, that someone tried to blow up the government! LOL)

(to be pedantic she was made in October 1976, but the chassis plate does not say what day exactly, so I go by the date of first registration)

[LightBulbFun]

had my 5th driving lesson today

this one im quite happy about, im getting more confident in things even when told to make my own way  

im able to change gear nice and smoothly and im not forgetting things as much when turning left etc as I was before!

and we also briefly ventured out onto some more major roads with actual traffic which was interesting and quite nerve wrecking, but it went well  

and im getting quicker at pulling out of junctions and i'm happy with how I dealt with some hazards on the road etc (like sudden sun in my eyes etc)

next lesson is scheduled for friday